License question (CLE)

[Well]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of states that exempt ALJ's from CLE requirements?

It would seem a reasonably smart play if you end up in a state that has an ALJ exemption and it offers reciprocal admission with your state to transfer your admission there and drop the home state admission.

[mcb]

I don't think there are CLE requirements for ALJs as long as you're in good standing when you become an ALJ. There was a big brouhaha about this a couple of years ago. Perhaps, someone remembers the specifics?

[Well]

You have to be licensed somewhere and your licensing state determines if you have to meet CLE requirements. There was a proposal to pre-empt states and exempt ALJ's but it wasn't adopted that I know of.

[71stretch]

All the SSA ALJs here appear to be active members, which means they have CLE requirements.

[alj]

Seems that I recently saw a proposed rule by OPM that would require ALJs to have a law license in any state. The type of license--active, inactive, judicial, etc.--was not important. What was important was the requirement that the judge be accountable to the issuing agency for ethical considerations. That is, if a serious ethical violation occurred, the license could be revoked.

[mcb]

Jul 8, 2010 16:05:32 GMT -5 71stretch said:

All the SSA ALJs here appear to be active members, which means they have CLE requirements.

Here's a thread about the issue from this board that I found by googling "CLE requirements ALJs."

Topic: OPM backs off active status reg.

aljdiscussion.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=536&page=1#9221

Regardless, if I'm lucky enough to be offered a position, I plan on keeping my Missouri and Washington State bar licenses in good standing, though I don't believe either state requires CLE course for active judges (ALJs?).

[mcb]

well said:

If I were to end up in Missouri (and there is no CLE requirement for ALJ's) I'd be very tempted to reciprocal admit into the Missouri bar and take active status there (has reciprocity with my state) and take inactive status at home to avoid the hassle. Then if leave the corps I can revive my status upon payment of the fee and taking the required CLE for the year.

That's how I became a member of the Washington state bar (reciprocity with Missouri). I'm currently "in good standing" in Missouri, though my license is currently inactive with no CLE requirements (or fees), and because I'm not actively practicing there, my annual bar fees are also less than active practitioners.

[hod]

There are several meeting of ALJ's throughout the year, and occasionally one can get permission from region to stand up and speak at some local Bar seminar. Both these activities can be approved by your local bar as CLE activities. Also if you teach a class for SS, you may be able to get that approved as worth CLE credits. The problem with CLE for the "lifers" is that it is often difficult to get credits in SS disability law and the joy of paying for a non-related seminar is often lacking.

I would caution you on allowing your Active Bar memberships to go inactive. Although SSA has currently backed off the active membership requirement, one of my friends thought that he would reactiviate his state license, only to be told that he owed a great amount of money for the years that he was not active. I did not quite understand the whole thing, but my point is-don't let a couple hundred dollars keep you from complying with all the regs for active status in at least one state. One never knows what the future may hold.

[Propmaster]

In my office (an ODAR), IVT training (internal video training (but that's not what it stands for, oddly enough)) is regularly approved by my state bar for CLE credit and we get more than enough for free, during work time, while training for our jobs. ALJs may also attend these training sessions (and likely should, especially when new).

[iapplied]

Jul 8, 2010 16:05:32 GMT -5 71stretch said:

All the SSA ALJs here appear to be active members, which means they have CLE requirements.

One doesn't necessarily follow the other: there are states which allow the attorney to be active in another state and not have to get CLE credits.

[71stretch]

Jul 8, 2010 20:23:39 GMT -5 iapplied said:

Jul 8, 2010 16:05:32 GMT -5 71stretch said:

All the SSA ALJs here appear to be active members, which means they have CLE requirements.

One doesn't necessarily follow the other: there are states which allow the attorney to be active in another state and not have to get CLE credits.

I'm not talking about any other state. ALJs working here don't get to be judicial members of the state bar. The SSA ALJs, and most of us who work at other levels of government, are active members in the same classification as all the practicing lawyers-- with the same CLE requirements they have. If you are an active member in this state, you have to meet CLE requirements here...even if you may have some sort of membership somewhere else.

[deltajudge]

8-)I think it has pretty well been settled as long as you are in good standing with your state bar association, you are ok. Now that varies, I belong the the Mississippi Bar Association, and when I became an ALJ, I became inactive, paid my inactive dues, and remained a member, but did not have to do CLE. Most of my career with OHA was spent in Tennessee, and those ALJs I worked with who belonged to the Tennessee bar, had to do CLE to maintain their good standing. There was no inactive status for them. So it depends on your state bar association, and their requirements, as to good standing.

[northwest]

The 4-week new ALJ training at the beginning, and the follow-up one week training about a year later will give you tons of free CLE credits if you get your state bar to recognize them. Ask your bar association how to do this. One of the ALJs in my class took the steps to have the new ALJ training approved for CLE credits in Washington. The annual AALJ training is also a potential source of CLE credits. Depending on your state (Washington is one of them), you might need to supplement with ethics credits. I recall getting these credits via web training in the past.

I do not recommend letting your active license go judicial status, as it might be a hassle to change back to active status if they change the rules again (which they did a couple years ago).

[float]

Michigan does not require CLE. New York allows an exception if you are not practicing in-state.

[kingfisher]

Jul 8, 2010 18:21:24 GMT -5 hod said:

There are several meeting of ALJ's throughout the year, and occasionally one can get permission from region to stand up and speak at some local Bar seminar. Both these activities can be approved by your local bar as CLE activities. Also if you teach a class for SS, you may be able to get that approved as worth CLE credits. The problem with CLE for the "lifers" is that it is often difficult to get credits in SS disability law and the joy of paying for a non-related seminar is often lacking.

I would caution you on allowing your Active Bar memberships to go inactive. Although SSA has currently backed off the active membership requirement, one of my friends thought that he would reactiviate his state license, only to be told that he owed a great amount of money for the years that he was not active. I did not quite understand the whole thing, but my point is-don't let a couple hundred dollars keep you from complying with all the regs for active status in at least one state. One never knows what the future may hold.

RE: the "joy of paying for a non-related CLE" you may want to keep in mind that judges attend CLE free of charge if in a related area and that area is "administrative law." There are a lot of admin law courses out there.

[coastie]

Does anyone know about NY? I'm licensed there and have to do CLE there (as an attorney--I don't know about judges) if I practice law anywhere.

[71stretch]

Sometimes, like it or not, ALJs don't get the same benefits as "judges" when it comes to bar memberships, CLE programs, etc. It varies from state to state and program to program. So, the freebies and reduced rates may apply, may not.

[hod]

Good point Kingfisher. I didn't think of that. It is something that one should check on. My understanding is that if you can show you need CLE credits to maintain bar membership, you are allowed a certain amount of admin leave to obtain such credits. I am just a lowly peon, I forgot that sometimes judicial robes can bring perks. :-)

[yogibear]

I believe Massachusetts does not require any CLEs to maintain an active BAR license, just an annual fee and check of IOLTA status.

[ruonthelist]

For those interested in joining a different bar, this publication from the Nat'l Conference of Bar Examiners may be useful:

www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Guide/CompGuide_2010.pdf

In particular you might want to scroll down to Charts VIII (Admission on Motion) and XIII (CLE requirements).

This is useful as background information, but before taking any steps you should research the state specific information. Some states have very high fees for admission on motion, and some require an affirmation that you intend to practice law in the state, which sitting ALJs would not be able to do.