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EEOC AJ
Nov 12, 2010 9:07:02 GMT -5
Post by novacats on Nov 12, 2010 9:07:02 GMT -5
Does anyone know anything about the EEOC Administrative Judge (Attorney Examiner) position? If so, please share. I've got a dog in that race.
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EEOC AJ
Nov 12, 2010 9:20:47 GMT -5
Post by alatty on Nov 12, 2010 9:20:47 GMT -5
Very good job. I left that position to go to SSA. It caps out at a 14, at this time.
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EEOC AJ
Nov 12, 2010 13:58:56 GMT -5
Post by novacats on Nov 12, 2010 13:58:56 GMT -5
Thanks. You say, "It caps out at a 14, at this time." Is there something in the works to bump them up to 15, SES, or something else?
Do they hire anyone at 14? How long generally to get the grade increase?
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EEOC AJ
Nov 13, 2010 11:32:26 GMT -5
Post by puravida on Nov 13, 2010 11:32:26 GMT -5
Don't hold your breath. Even the Chief AJs are GS-14, regardless how many offices they are responsible for and how many staff they supervise. There have been proposals to upgrade the position to GS-15 for about 25 years, but it hasn't happened due to very strong opposition in HQs, no matter who is in power, in large part because the agency's focus is on the private sector. (EEOC AJs hear employment discrimination cases filed against federal agencies, and they constitute a very small portion of the agency's employees - maybe 125 or so total nationwide.) The EEOC does not respect or value its AJs, which is why so many of us have become ALJs. This job is a piece of cake compared to the EEOC, and I find it humorous if not annoying to hear SSA ALJs complain about the amount of clerical tasks they have to perform. EEOC AJs have to do ALL their own clerical functions, because the most support staff any Hearings Office gets is 1 clerk. 1 clerk, no matter how many judges. In my SSA HO, the staff, in support of 10 ALJs, is the same size as the entire EEOC District Office was - including investigators, attorneys, support staff and AJs. Nonetheless, once upon a time EEOC AJ was a really good job, really fun. Still, EEOC judges are the hardest working and most committed federal employees I have ever seen. Some of them refuse to apply for ALJ positions despite the increased pay and prestige, and vastly decreased stress level, due to their commitment to the agency's mission.
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EEOC AJ
Nov 13, 2010 11:47:41 GMT -5
Post by puravida on Nov 13, 2010 11:47:41 GMT -5
I forgot to answer the rest of your question. No, unless you are already a fed at the GS-14 level, do not expect to be hired as a 14. The hiring grade is determined by HQs when they authorize filling a slot. Once on board, it normally takes one year to go to the next grade, if your performance is satisfactory and you have demonstrated the ability to perform at the higher grade level - ie more difficult cases. However, HQs froze promotions for AJs for a number of years recently, so no matter how good your performance, you could not be promoted. I don't know whether that has been changed since I left in 2009, but the Chief AJ who is making the selection for the office you applied to can answer your specific questions. They are very approachable so don't hesitate to call him or her.
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EEOC AJ
Feb 6, 2015 13:32:39 GMT -5
Post by aljwatch on Feb 6, 2015 13:32:39 GMT -5
Bumping this thread in response to the recent inquiry about EEOC AJ's. There have been numerous discussions about the differences between ALJ's and AJ's on this board, but the main differences appear to be: (1) the agencies' ability to require specialized experience; (2) most AJ's are subject to performance evaluations; and (3) the pay scales can vary immensely, depending on the agency (some are attorney GS classifications at the GS-14 or GS-15 level, and others have their own pay scales that are more comparable to ALJ's, like Veterans Law Judges and Immigration Judges). There are many agencies that only hire AJ's because they want the specialized experience, and there are some agencies that have both ALJ's and AJ's. I like the thread started by bhappy in April 2014 (entitled "Diversify") as it encourages everyone on this board to think outside the box and apply for all sorts of AJ opportunities, since ALJ is not the only satisfying judge gig around. I did see on one thread a while ago, I believe, a listing of agencies that hire AJ's, but now I can't find it. Does anyone else remember that?
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EEOC AJ
Feb 6, 2015 14:12:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gary on Feb 6, 2015 14:12:19 GMT -5
Bumping this thread in response to the recent inquiry about EEOC AJ's. There have been numerous discussions about the differences between ALJ's and AJ's on this board, but the main differences appear to be: (1) the agencies' ability to require specialized experience; (2) most AJ's are subject to performance evaluations; and (3) the pay scales can vary immensely, depending on the agency (some are attorney GS classifications at the GS-14 or GS-15 level, and others have their own pay scales that are more comparable to ALJ's, like Veterans Law Judges and Immigration Judges). There are many agencies that only hire AJ's because they want the specialized experience, and there are some agencies that have both ALJ's and AJ's. I like the thread started by bhappy in April 2014 (entitled "Diversify") as it encourages everyone on this board to think outside the box and apply for all sorts of AJ opportunities, since ALJ is not the only satisfying judge gig around. I did see on one thread a while ago, I believe, a listing of agencies that hire AJ's, but now I can't find it. Does anyone else remember that? I'd love to see a list of agencies that hire AJ's as well. It interesting how different agencies pay/treat their AJs. It is sad from the few reports we have heard on how low and crappy AJs at EEOC are paid. I never really quite understood why some agencies hire a mix of AJ/ALJs. I'd love to jump into an AJ position (depending on the agency), if given the chance. I don't know about other agencies, but the MSPB has some matters that must be handled by an ALJ. If they don't have their own ALJ to handle such matters, MSPB must borrow an ALJ from another agency.
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Post by Missundaztood on Feb 6, 2015 17:25:26 GMT -5
The MSPB has one ALJ spot on the books, but it hasn't been filled for quite some time because there isn't enough work to justify filling it. They contract with other agencies (Coast Guard?) to use their ALJs if needed in a particular case (which I think are basically cases involving ALJs). The MSPB AJs are career ladder positions starting as GS 13s and promotable up to GS 15. They frequently hire at the 14 and even 15 levels. The Regional Directors are SES. They do hire from time to time, so keep an eye on USAJobs. They have paralegals, but no decision writers, so anyone applying should be prepared to write their own orders and decisions. You can write decisions, conduct settlement conferences and settle all your cases and never write one decision, or some combination of those.
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Post by Missundaztood on Feb 7, 2015 18:01:42 GMT -5
You can write decisions, conduct settlement conferences and settle all your cases and never write one decision, or some combination of those. How often does the MSPB hire AJ's ? And my second question, if anyone knows this answer is this: Do they have AJs outside of Washington DC? I have seen announcements about every year and scattered throughout the country in some of the major metro areas. It isn't like this register. OPM reviews your application to see if you are qualified at the grade applied (you can apply at multiple grades), then if so, forwards your app to MSPB. Then presumably they do interviews. Not sure. I am always found qualified for all grades but never get called for an interview, despite having practiced before the MSPB and having done a good amount of employment law. I suspect that their staff attorneys have the inside track. Good luck!
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Post by jd on Feb 7, 2015 18:03:04 GMT -5
You have to go on USA Jobs and look for openings under the 0905 job series. Go to their website and you can see where their offices are located. They are all over the country. Have federal civilian personnel law experience or you will be wasting your time. jd
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Post by mamaru on Feb 7, 2015 18:07:11 GMT -5
Like Miss, I have an employment law/labor law background and have been deemed qualified for MSPB but never been interviewed. I don't know what the deal is, but the jobs do crop up on USA jobs.
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EEOC AJ
Feb 7, 2015 22:37:58 GMT -5
Post by lizdarcy on Feb 7, 2015 22:37:58 GMT -5
I have been told that MSPB knows which insider they want before they post each job. I once applied for a MSPB job to see what would happen. I have more than enough qualifying experience and sailed through the preliminaries. I was never called for an interview. The person who I spoke with when I was applying kind of tried to hint that it was a waste of time.
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Post by lizdarcy on Feb 8, 2015 9:06:30 GMT -5
My conclusions were based on my own experience plus observing who gets the jobs at the regional office in my area. It's a very small world and thus easy to see what's happening. My post was not meant to discourage anyone from applying, merely to corroborate what was said before about that agency and its hiring practices.
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EEOC AJ
Feb 8, 2015 11:27:29 GMT -5
Post by grassgreener on Feb 8, 2015 11:27:29 GMT -5
I have been told that MSPB knows which insider they want before they post each job. I once applied for a MSPB job to see what would happen. I have more than enough qualifying experience and sailed through the preliminaries. I was never called for an interview. The person who I spoke with when I was applying kind of tried to hint that it was a waste of time. Not sure who an insider at MSPB would be - it's a fairly small agency where the judges write their own decisions - don't believe there any MSPB attorneys on staff at MSPB writing decisions etc. the people that I know who have been selected for MSPB judges were individuals that are highly regarded who practiced before MSPB or had EEOC experience. Several attorneys from USPS or EEOC AJs, for example, have been hired for the MSPB.
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Post by Missundaztood on Feb 8, 2015 15:03:01 GMT -5
I have been told that MSPB knows which insider they want before they post each job. I once applied for a MSPB job to see what would happen. I have more than enough qualifying experience and sailed through the preliminaries. I was never called for an interview. The person who I spoke with when I was applying kind of tried to hint that it was a waste of time. Not sure who an insider at MSPB would be - it's a fairly small agency where the judges write their own decisions - don't believe there any MSPB attorneys on staff at MSPB writing decisions etc. the people that I know who have been selected for MSPB judges were individuals that are highly regarded who practiced before MSPB or had EEOC experience. Several attorneys from USPS or EEOC AJs, for example, have been hired for the MSPB. I have a friend who was a staff attorney for MSPB. I may have the title wrong. And I can't remember what exactly he did there, whether it was writing opinions or representing the MSPB itself in litigation (but I suspect the latter). It has been quite a while since he had that gig, so the details are fuzzy, and it was the beginning of my career, so I didn't have the context yet. But I am sure there are some category of attorneys on staff. And it makes complete sense that MSPB would hire experienced judges from other government employment law agencies. There is much overlap in that governing law IMHO.
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Post by onepingonly on Feb 23, 2015 0:30:41 GMT -5
EEOC AJ was the most enjoyable job I've had in 25+ years of legal practice (and I've enjoyed them all immensely). I believe it caps out at 13 now (it was downgraded from 14 around 2008 IIRC). I got nothing but respect there. It is what you make it. It has long been a pipeline to ALJ (which pays much better). It's a very small program but the mission is so rewarding. If you want to make a real difference in the world, EEOC AJ is a great way to do it. Much bigger impact than SSA ALJ IMHO.
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Post by onepingonly on Feb 23, 2015 23:19:02 GMT -5
EEOC AJ was a great gig. I was a 14, got in under the wire. It's such a small part of the agency that it gets little notice. The work was not difficult, but it was very interesting. No two cases were alike, and there was no monotony. I worked very independently. I was occasionally tapped as the acting director, which was interesting. Best way into EEOC is just to monitor USAJOBS. Or drop by your nearest office and ask to meet with the director or legal staff or the AJs. They might drop a dime on you when an announcement is in the offing. They don't do a lot of hiring; mostly just a lot of attrition.
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EEOC AJ
Feb 24, 2015 9:10:11 GMT -5
Post by privateatty on Feb 24, 2015 9:10:11 GMT -5
I forgot to answer the rest of your question. No, unless you are already a fed at the GS-14 level, do not expect to be hired as a 14. The hiring grade is determined by HQs when they authorize filling a slot. Once on board, it normally takes one year to go to the next grade, if your performance is satisfactory and you have demonstrated the ability to perform at the higher grade level - ie more difficult cases. However, HQs froze promotions for AJs for a number of years recently, so no matter how good your performance, you could not be promoted. I don't know whether that has been changed since I left in 2009, but the Chief AJ who is making the selection for the office you applied to can answer your specific questions. They are very approachable so don't hesitate to call him or her. Exactly. Your performance is tied to your Agency. HQ essentially rules you. This position is a poster child for why they should be ALJs.
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Post by aljwatch on Apr 9, 2015 15:35:52 GMT -5
I noticed that EEOC just advertised 3 AJ positions: Chicago, Atlanta, and L.A. They close on 4/17.
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Post by onepingonly on Apr 10, 2015 18:49:52 GMT -5
I believe it now tops out at 13.
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