|
Post by peacemaker on Apr 11, 2015 21:00:11 GMT -5
I recently left the EEOC AJ job--it tops out at 14, offers a very interesting caseload and a lot of autonomy. The work/life balance is great and the trial lawyers (who are your colleagues) are smart and dedicated. But the federal sector program is a small part of the agency--which has come benefits and some downsides.
|
|
|
Post by numbersix on Apr 23, 2015 9:15:02 GMT -5
I applied for an EEOC AJ job that closed last week. If anyone else did, would you post when you get an interview? If I'm lucky enough to get an interview, I'll post, too.
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on May 24, 2015 15:15:15 GMT -5
Good luck. I loved that job. :-)
|
|
sta
Full Member
Posts: 82
|
EEOC AJ
May 25, 2015 14:52:17 GMT -5
Post by sta on May 25, 2015 14:52:17 GMT -5
I recently left the EEOC AJ job--it tops out at 14, offers a very interesting caseload and a lot of autonomy. The work/life balance is great and the trial lawyers (who are your colleagues) are smart and dedicated. But the federal sector program is a small part of the agency--which has come benefits and some downsides. I agree with your remarks. Just had one question? When I served in this position, it was before discovery was included in the pretrial deliberations before the AJ. I think discovery (following the Federal court rules to some extent) was added in or about 1992 for individual cases. Just curious how that impacted the workload. Before the inclusion of discovery, you basically ruled on witness requests, held hearings (typically anywhere from a half day to two or three days) and wrote decisions. The caseload (number wise) was roughly 1/10 what ALJs handle at the SSA.
|
|
|
Post by peacemaker on May 25, 2015 15:13:41 GMT -5
The parties can now engage in discovery--interrogs, requests to admit, requests to produce, deps. So there are quite a few discovery disputes to rule on, along with motions for SJ. And there's no filing fee, so while some cases are strong, others may not be, or may involve relatively low stakes. I never thought I'd say this, but I do miss the adversarial nature of the administrative scheme. In any case, good luck to any Board members who have applied for the job.
|
|
|
Post by owl on Jun 1, 2015 10:44:23 GMT -5
I noticed that EEOC just advertised 3 AJ positions: Chicago, Atlanta, and L.A. They close on 4/17. I applied for one of these back in April and there was a little movement last week as I was notified my application cleared OPM's review and was referred (as I'm sure many others were) to EEOC. I know that's the easy part and actually making the cut for an interview is the hard part but just wanted to throw in an update on the process. It took OPM about 6 weeks from application to referral. Gmail has annoyingly started automatically sorting certain of my emails into a quasi-spam folder called Updates so that's where I found the emails from OPM and USAJOBS. Word to the wise, and good luck to all!
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Jun 1, 2015 10:52:29 GMT -5
Congrats and good luck!
|
|
|
Post by laurenb on Jun 1, 2015 15:26:34 GMT -5
I'm an EEOC trial attorney now, so I know a bit about the AJ position. Just like district court, the parties may engage in discovery, motions, etc.; although, it is usually more abbreviated than a court case. The government will usually file a summary judgment motion, to which the judge must rule. The judges preside at hearings, similar, but less formal, than court. As far as substantive law, it is a really interesting job.
But here are the downsides, according to our AJs: 1) No support staff - you do all your own administrative and clerical work - e.g. mail, scan documents, etc. So that takes a lot of time away from the substantive work; 2) Because it is such a small part of an already very small agency with a small budget, the agency does not really have any motivation to hire support staff or even additional ALJs for all the work. Many AJs feel like the Hearings Unit is the red-headed stepchild in the EEOC, always last in line behind Enforcement and Legal; 3) You are expected to get out a certain number of closures per year, but unlike ODAR, they don't really tell you what that number is (our AJ said around 60). 4) You are evaluated by your director of your office whose main focus is Enforcement. Your director does not evaluate your actual work product. She only gets your numbers and tells you if you are hitting the target or not. But again, you don't really know where the target is. 5) All closures are treated equally. So an easy case with one plaintiff that closes early is treated the same as a complex multi-plaintiff case that goes all the way through hearing. Many of the judges find this unfair, and always try to break up cases with multiple plaintiffs into smaller individual cases, so they get the right amount of credit. 6) It is on the GS scale and tops out at a 14. As a trial attorney, I'm a 14, step 5 right now. I can tell you that if I get an ALJ position with ODAR, my salary will go up about $10K right away and then about $10K for the next 3 years. For my locality, a 14, step 10 makes less than an ODAR ALJ does in year 2. To go from a 14, step 1 to a step 10 would take 18 years.
I spoke with one of the ALJ in our office about her job, because I love practicing employment law and I thought being an AJ would be a great next step. When I told her I made the cert for an ALJ position, she strongly encouraged me to go for it. She said a lot of the AJs in the EEOC want to become ALJ because of the reasons above. That being said, if I don't get an ODAR or another ALJ position, and a AJ position opened in my office, I would definitely go for it. One of my hesitations about moving from the EEOC to ODAR is that I would not find the substantive area of law as interesting or challenging as employment law. I also have a ton of flexibility to work from home, and not being able to telecommute for a year will be hard. EEOC AJs set their own hearings and make their own schedules, so they may work at home as much as is feasible (at least in our office. I think the CBA says we may work at home 80 hours per week, but legal and hearings (AJs) are not really monitored at all. As long as you get your work done, you are good.)
I hope this helps
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Jun 1, 2015 15:33:17 GMT -5
Awesome post! It echoes what I have heard but no one really confirmed it until your detailed post.
|
|
|
Post by privateatty on Jun 1, 2015 15:48:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by laurenb on Jun 2, 2015 9:20:31 GMT -5
My impression is that the EEOC feels its AJs need a good background in employment law. I know a good number of the AJs in the agency are former EEOC trial attorneys.
|
|
|
EEOC AJ
Jun 2, 2015 10:20:57 GMT -5
Post by intothewild on Jun 2, 2015 10:20:57 GMT -5
EEOC AJs set their own hearings and make their own schedules, so they may work at home as much as is feasible (at least in our office. I think the CBA says we may work at home 80 hours per week, but legal and hearings (AJs) are not really monitored at all. As long as you get your work done, you are good.) I hope this helps I am curious how many hours a week does the typical EEOC AJ work? I assume EEOC AJs don't get overtime pay.. Up to 80 hours a week seems like a bit. Do quite a few AJs simply do all of their work in one week periods? Maybe work one week, take the next week off? If so, that is pretty nice.
|
|
|
Post by owl on Jun 2, 2015 10:47:33 GMT -5
Excellent post laurenb! I'm sure many board members will find it valuable not only now but for years to come when searching for info about the EEOC AJ position, so you have done us all a great service. Thanks!
Like you, my primary background is in employment litigation also (15 years, most with a relatively large national firm), and the subject matter is interesting, challenging, and important.
I will say that I have found Social Security disability law to be, while not quite as sexy as employment law (like, literally - no sexual harassment claims in this field!), still interesting, challenging, and important - as I hope you will get the chance to find out as an ALJ. :-) Learning a completely new area of law is a very stimulating challenge in and of itself, and still, at the end of the day, every claimant's story is unique and of course important to them. For me, it also helps to work in a NHC where we get added geographic and demographic diversity in our claimants.
So if I had my druthers I would prefer SSA ALJ to EEOC AJ for the reasons you outlined ($$ being foremost among them) plus the fact that I've now seen that disability law is *not* boring or too easy or too repetitious or any of the other things it sometimes gets labeled as (and as I probably labeled it - if I ever thought of it - during all those years I was in private practice). But unless there is some miracle I don't ever expect to be juggling competing offers so whoever offers first can have me ;-) and if no offers are forthcoming my current gig will do just fine. Good luck to all!
|
|
|
Post by laurenb on Jun 2, 2015 16:41:22 GMT -5
80 hours is not right. I don't know why I wrote that. 80 hours is the number of hours in a pay period. I think the CBA says we (all non-management EEOC employees) may telecommute up to 2 days a week. I think the AJ work about 40-45 hours a week. No overtime pay. I'm not sure if they get comp hours. I don't think anyone could do 80 hours a week, but we may do alternate schedules 5/7/9 (9 hours 8 day, 8 hours 1 day, and then a day off every other week) or 4/10 (10 hours a day, 4 days a week). We, but AJs especially, can basically work whatever hours they want. If you want to come in really early and leave earlier in the afternoon, or come in later and stay later. AJ don't have hearings every week like ODAR ALJs.
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 2, 2015 22:08:12 GMT -5
It's a 35-hour week. The schedule is very flexible. It's mostly research and writing. Hearings are few and far between as compared with SSA. I think most of us were doing between 50 and 80 trials a year. That said, the hearings are contested multi-party deals that can last all day, or many days, with many thousands of pages of exhibits, numerous witnesses, expert witnesses, site visits, and other trappings of a real federal trial. We wrote our own decisions from start to finish, and they ranged from about 30 pages to over 50. Cranking out more than one of those per week on average is a challenge. Things may have changed since I was there about six years ago. Glad to see it goes up to 14. They had cut it back to GS13 for a while, but perhaps that was temporary or regional. Again, if you oppose discrimination, are a complete self-starter, and have a high tolerance for red tape, it's an extremely fulfilling job. No robes, no oak panelling, but it's as legitimate a judge's role as any you'll find.
|
|
davef
Full Member
Posts: 87
|
EEOC AJ
Jun 3, 2015 11:30:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by davef on Jun 3, 2015 11:30:38 GMT -5
I noticed that EEOC just advertised 3 AJ positions: Chicago, Atlanta, and L.A. They close on 4/17. I applied for one of these back in April and there was a little movement last week as I was notified my application cleared OPM's review and was referred (as I'm sure many others were) to EEOC. I know that's the easy part and actually making the cut for an interview is the hard part but just wanted to throw in an update on the process. It took OPM about 6 weeks from application to referral. Gmail has annoyingly started automatically sorting certain of my emails into a quasi-spam folder called Updates so that's where I found the emails from OPM and USAJOBS. Word to the wise, and good luck to all! Same here. Only odd thing is that I applied for all three. Two of which were referred with in 24 hours of each other a week or two ago, while the Atlanta app is still under review. Not really sure my interest in these, but, I really wanted to apply for a job with Schedule A hiring authority. Anyone have any experience with this? Feel free to private message me. Good luck to all!
|
|
cielo
Full Member
Posts: 52
|
Post by cielo on Jun 8, 2015 6:05:45 GMT -5
Long time lurker, first time writer...
I was referred to Philadelphia last week. Atlanta is still under review. I was not expecting to be referred and would be shocked if I moved forward, but it was great to see some movement. Fingers crossed!
|
|
|
Post by gary on Jun 8, 2015 7:10:41 GMT -5
Long time lurker, first time writer... I was referred to Philadelphia last week. Atlanta is still under review. I was not expecting to be referred and would be shocked if I moved forward, but it was great to see some movement. Fingers crossed! Congratulations and good luck!
|
|
|
Post by gary on Jun 8, 2015 10:59:33 GMT -5
Long time lurker, first time writer... I was referred to Philadelphia last week. Atlanta is still under review. I was not expecting to be referred and would be shocked if I moved forward, but it was great to see some movement. Fingers crossed! Same here, for Philly. My employment law background is pretty much non-existent. I might have a better chance at winning my OPM ALJ appeal than even getting an interview for EEOC. Congratulations and good luck!
|
|