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Post by Justice-Dude on Mar 15, 2011 8:40:46 GMT -5
I think iplawyer recommended starting a new thread for vacancies where we can gather as much data about particular offices and GAL locations. For example, I need to know if ALJ transfers have filled the Baltimore office(s). Thank you for the collective wisdom of old, new, and dream-to-be ALJ's. I am dreaming to be ...
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 15, 2011 10:51:11 GMT -5
St. Louis, Missouri, has two open offices (although one is occupied by an about-to-transfer ALJ). Creve Coeur, Missouri, has, I believe, one open office. Regional expects up to 18 hires (as always, depending on budget) throughout region VII, which includes those two ODARs, West Des Moines, Omaha, Wichita, Topeka, Springfield, MO, and Kansas City (hope I didn't leave someone off).
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Post by bartleby on Mar 15, 2011 11:02:31 GMT -5
My understanding is that Akron, Ohio will have about seven (7) vacancies.. Problem is that some on the certificate have been on the Register prior to Akron being an office, so, it's not on their GAL. I don't know if there is way for those to get Akron included in their GAL so they would have a wider range. Any ideas??
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Post by mcb on Mar 15, 2011 11:17:33 GMT -5
My understanding is that Akron, Ohio will have about seven (7) vacancies.. Problem is that some on the certificate have been on the Register prior to Akron being an office, so, it's not on their GAL. I don't know if there is way for those to get Akron included in their GAL so they would have a wider range. Any ideas?? Toledo has 5 ALJs who have left or are leaving, three have already been reassigned and two have accepted a reassignment (one will be going to Akron, FYI).
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 15, 2011 12:53:23 GMT -5
My understanding is that Akron, Ohio will have about seven (7) vacancies.. Problem is that some on the certificate have been on the Register prior to Akron being an office, so, it's not on their GAL. I don't know if there is way for those to get Akron included in their GAL so they would have a wider range. Any ideas?? Anyone who checked "all" on their cities has Akron in his or her GAL. Besides, in November 2009, a lot of cities that didn't have offices yet were on the list to choose from --including Akron. So, people could have specifically included Akron in their GALs at that time -- new applicants and those already on the register who used that precious 48 hours to update their GALs.
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Post by tigerfan on Mar 15, 2011 20:59:52 GMT -5
Propmaster, you left off Columbia, MO which will have several openings as it is a new office. I also think that the Creve Coeur Office is reserved for an ALJ serving in Iraq.
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Post by Justice-Dude on Mar 16, 2011 9:03:20 GMT -5
Reliable information has it that 4-6 ALJ's are on a list for transfer to Baltimore, with a couple of ALJ transferring from Baltimore. This reminds me of the Army. Soldiers submitted a dream sheet of desired locations, and without doubt, the Army would send them to an opposite location. The soldier spent the rest of the time struggling to transfer into their desired location. I spoke to an ALJ and she explained that candidates with very low scores would select all GAL, get selected because of limited competition into undesirable cities, and the same ALJ's would shortly transfer to highly desirable locations. This is all interesting, and if true, I am puzzled about the interplay between SSA transfer and selection versus the OPM testing and rating criteria. I am rambling about the process, and re-living my Army dream sheet for sunny and warm Hawaii and instead, being sent to freezing Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels, Germany (Seventh Army Training Command). Please feel free to ignore me.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 16, 2011 9:18:53 GMT -5
A low score by OPM doesn't necessarily translate into being a bad SSA ALJ if one ends up getting selected despite the low score. There's no penalty for that low score from OPM once you are in and doing the job, so there IS no interplay between SSA transfer and OPM score. There's a lot of weird stuff in this process, but I'm not bothered by the fact that there's no correlation between those things. Some of the best lawyers out there didn't have great LSAT scores or high GPA's in law school. Once you are in the SSA ALJ corps (there's those military terms again ) it's all by seniority.
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Post by iplawyer on Mar 16, 2011 9:20:39 GMT -5
I spoke to an ALJ and she explained that candidates with very low scores would select all GAL, get selected because of limited competition into undesirable cities, and the same ALJ's would shortly transfer to highly desirable locations. This is all interesting, and if true, I am puzzled about the interplay between SSA transfer and selection versus the OPM testing and rating criteria. Please feel free to ignore me. SSA insiders know that almost all of the desirable spots are not actually filled through hiring, understand the frequency of transfers, and create their GALs accordingly. Non-government applicants (as I am) do not. Perhaps unintentionally, it gives SSA insiders an enormous advantage. (Hence one of the benefits of this forum -- if only I had known about it 3 months sooner!) On an only slightly related note re: list placement: Does anyone have any rough estimate for the number of 10-pt vets who went through the process in Dec./Jan.? 15? 50? I assume that most of them ended up with very good scores, in part (although certainly not in whole) b/c of the 10-pt bump.
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Post by ALJD on Mar 16, 2011 9:42:13 GMT -5
To iplawyer's comment re insider familiarity with the process - I think the agency is best served by hiring the best candidates available. To the extent asymmetric information distort that, it should be remedied if possible. Hence the existence of this forum to provide information about this convoluted process.
Also, the info on # of 5 & 10 pt vets left is not publicly known outside of OPM, so you probably won't get an answer on it.
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Post by iplawyer on Mar 16, 2011 9:44:55 GMT -5
I suppose that today is my day for frequent posting. I have received, through a source, the latest transfer list. I won't post or email the list generally, because it has ALJs' names. I am sure that many people would be interested in the transfer information by office, but I simply don't have the time to organize it. If anyone is willing to take up the gauntlet of collating that information, I would send along the list; send me a private email. (I know that someone did this 3-4 months ago, but don't remember the identity of the generous volunteer.)
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Post by bartleby on Mar 16, 2011 9:48:43 GMT -5
Although most are jealous of the points veterans receive, it often works against them. If the top 15 on the certificate are veterans, they end up being placed against each other for the top cities and are often three-struck and out of the game before they get selected. Having a buddy that was a 10 point veteran and seeing the certificate through a FOIA query, I have verified this. Therefore, out of 15 veterans, five are picked and ten are dumped. Not much of an advantage after all. As far as insiders having knowledge and an advantage, it's basically all a crap shoot and I don't really know how anyone can get an advantage in Bizzarro World.. Some Will, Some Won't, So What.. All of you Amway Dealers will recognize that..
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Post by iplawyer on Mar 16, 2011 11:02:30 GMT -5
Also, the info on # of 5 & 10 pt vets left is not publicly known outside of OPM, so you probably won't get an answer on it. My only hope, then, is that one of the recent 10-pt vet forum members will be willing to share the approximate number of those present at the WD in Dec. Anyone? A kindly forum member (who probably wishes to remain anonymous, or else s/he could have posted directly) just emailed me to say that s/he recollects that there were 7 test-takers at the WD in December. FWIW.
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Post by aljenvy on Mar 16, 2011 11:40:38 GMT -5
Not sure how knowing the number of people who tested in December would make a difference - but I believe there were two groups that tested in December - with probably 20 total - not all the people who tested, including myself, however, were veterans.
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Post by eyre44 on Mar 16, 2011 12:00:52 GMT -5
SSA insiders know that almost all of the desirable spots are not actually filled through hiring, understand the frequency of transfers, and create their GALs accordingly. Non-government applicants (as I am) do not. Perhaps unintentionally, it gives SSA insiders an enormous advantage. (Hence one of the benefits of this forum -- if only I had known about it 3 months sooner!) I have to disagree with iplawyer's statement. I am an insider. I had no idea about the interplay between GAL, transfers etc., when I originally applied on the 2007 cert. And I know I'm not alone. The ALJs, management, and attorneys in the various hearing offices are not necessarily best buddies. Sometimes they rarely speak. In addition, when the 2007 and 2008 application went out, ALJs had to wait 2 years before they could transfer, thus there wasn't much incentive to select a large GAL unless you really wanted to move. This change in the transfer policy did not begin until 3 months before the last application opened in 2009 and many insiders did not know about it and did not changed their GAL. Of course there are some insiders who have more information about the process. However, I think most of them learned about it from this board, like I did.
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 16, 2011 13:02:58 GMT -5
Propmaster, you left off Columbia, MO which will have several openings as it is a new office. I also think that the Creve Coeur Office is reserved for an ALJ serving in Iraq. Good points.
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Post by nonamouse on Mar 16, 2011 13:21:49 GMT -5
Columbia, Missouri was in the top 10 places to live on the Forbes list for many years, so someone should put it down if they like that part of the country but please don't pin any major hopes on it. Many ALJs who went to law school in Columbia or are from that area and have been "suffering" in KC or St. Louis or even Springfield are probably salivating at the thought of a Columbia office. It is a great place to end one's career even for people who have worked elsewhere for years. It is basically a small college city with the closest major cities 2-3 hours away by interstate, 3 colleges, a university medical center, cultural events, sports and great outdoor amenities around town and nearby Lake of the Ozarks and easy access to KC or St. Louis for a major airport, more shopping or amenities in an easy day trip.
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Post by george007 on Mar 16, 2011 13:26:43 GMT -5
One more note about Columbia -- unfortunately, you have to deal with those "Tigers." Yuck!
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Post by nonamouse on Mar 16, 2011 13:29:59 GMT -5
With regard to who has what knowledge on the interplay of transfers, etc I agree that working at SSA does not equal "insider" or being in the know for everyone. Basically, I used my retired military dad's advice about more locations giving the selectors more chances to pick me. I had personal circumstances that prevented me from listing "all" when I first applied and just before I had the chance to open up my list I lucked into a slot in a location where normally it is transfers in and few out except by retirement.
I would suggest that there is an element of "paying one's dues" that may be seen for those who suck it up in a harder to fill office for awhile before asking to transfer. While it may not get you to the first position on the transfer list any quicker, it could mean the difference between a receiving region or office accepting you from the number 2 or 3 spot on the list instead of going for a new hire. No matter where you go you need to be productive and not a pain in the neck or that reputation can affect your later moves also. Unless they are required by the contract what sane person is going to offer a transfer to a diva or low producer? It is just commonsense and self-preservation.
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Post by iplawyer on Mar 16, 2011 13:57:19 GMT -5
SSA insiders know that almost all of the desirable spots are not actually filled through hiring, understand the frequency of transfers, and create their GALs accordingly. Non-government applicants (as I am) do not. Perhaps unintentionally, it gives SSA insiders an enormous advantage. (Hence one of the benefits of this forum -- if only I had known about it 3 months sooner!) I have to disagree with iplawyer's statement. I am an insider. I had no idea about the interplay between GAL, transfers etc., when I originally applied on the 2007 cert. And I know I'm not alone. The ALJs, management, and attorneys in the various hearing offices are not necessarily best buddies. Sometimes they rarely speak. In addition, when the 2007 and 2008 application went out, ALJs had to wait 2 years before they could transfer, thus there wasn't much incentive to select a large GAL unless you really wanted to move. This change in the transfer policy did not begin until 3 months before the last application opened in 2009 and many insiders did not know about it and did not changed their GAL. Of course there are some insiders who have more information about the process. However, I think most of them learned about it from this board, like I did. My apologies for offending you. I should not have equated SSA status with "insider." However, I do suspect that there are SOME SSA employees -- and some individuals with other gov't contacts -- who had a better understanding than I (hardly could have had a worse understanding!) as to the GAL process, and were able to plan accordingly. Let me be clear that I do not think that they are not "cheating" in any way; they are just fortunate to reap the benefit of a complicated and somewhat obscure process. (I truly prefer a few relatively unpopular locations and listed those, but had I known that it would be quite possible to get e.g., Timbuktu, and transfer back to "ye relatively unpopular vicinity" within a year or two, I would have taken a much more scattershot approach.)
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