Transfer List?

[justthefacts]

Does anyone have good information about how the transfer list really works? I know several people who are first on the list for a particular city, waiting for a transfer. But that same office/city appears on the gal list, no offers have been made to those at the top of the list, so it appears that any opening would be filled by a new candidate. For example, Atlanta, Houston, Tampa...there are at least 5-10 people on the transfer lists for these cities list. Yet all three are on the current gal list.....I understand that some individuals may have to turn down a transfer because of timing, etc...but considering a list of 5-10 people, wouldn't most of us conclude that any openings would be filled by transfer? I think there may have been a new ALJ placed in Tampa in 2011...but why not filled by transer?
Are there rules or guidelines for filling slots with transfers?
Does the ALJ union play any part?
I heard of a few transfers about 2 months ago, but is it possible that the transfer list is still being worked?
Anyway.....if anyone has any information that can shed some light on this process, it would be much appreciated.
JTF

[nutcase]

I am not sure of the process but I think that the ALJ union agreement may require management to go through the transfer list prior to requesting cert or filling vacancies after the cert (speculation). Management may even have to go through it a second time or even more than twice but I think there is a limit to how many times they are required to cycle through the list before moving on to fill identified vacancies. When I say cycle through it I mean go through the transfer list and honor requests but honoring transfers would open up other vacancies that may have people wanting to transfer into. It would make sense that there would be a limit to management's requirement to honor transfer requests. Having said that I am certain that there is at least one hearing office (and most likely multiple ones) on the list that had a transfer list that was long enough to have filled all of that office's potential vacancies.

[spirit]

I am also unsure of how it works, but I have been on several certs where all of my locations were filled with a transfer. There was never any real opening for a new candidate. It would be nice to know in advance, then the let down is not so hard.

[bartleby]

And therein lies the rub, if you would have expanded your GAL originally you might have been picked and been able tp transfer back home by now..

[mph]

I don't understand ( I know, I shouldn't even try) why OPM creates a cert, sends all of us hopefuls a GAL, and THEN starts working the transfer list. How do they even know for sure where there will be openings? This method seems both inefficient and misleading for applicants. I suppose, however, that this approach works well enough when there are many more applicants than open positions.:-(

I have an imaginary GAL.

[jlee1962]

OPM doesn't work the transfer list - that's all Social Security. SS asks for a cert for whatever cities it thinks it might need - while that process is going on, they start working the transfer list. I have about 10 cities on my GAL, don't really expect an offer. I am waiting for the register to open so I can expand my GAL.

[spirit]

So, if you are on 3 certs and each time the positions are filled with a transfer, have you been considered 3 times? Are you subject to the "3 strike" and your out of consideration policy even if you have never really been considered?

[bartleby]

Spirit, I believe you have to be one of the three considered for a location to be "struck". Being on a cert doesn't make one "struck", however, one may be considered for three locations on one Cert and end up being "three struck". The three strike rule merely says that the Agency MAYchoose to NOT consider one after the third strike. I have seen lists where one was struck 8 times on the same Cert and then offered a location. I am sure there is a system involved some how, but none of us have ever truly figured it out. I have a friend, an ALJ that counts cards in Casino.s and walks away with 10,000 all the time. He has designed games of chance for Casino's. In other words, he is a genius. He and I worked for months utilizying FOIA information. I got his coffee and murmured encouragement while he drew up graphs, charts, and calculated. Did I mention he calculated. We, basically he, never came close to figuring the system out.. It must be magic..

[marathoner]

Folks, trying to figure out what's happening with the xfer list is like trying to figure out the formula to original coca-cola. The Union list is trumped by hardship requests & mgmt requests, so even if you have your hands on the union list, you never really know, do you? From my hiring class in 2010, only 1 of the 56 was posted to her "home" office. It's my understanding that only one in the following class was posted to her "home" office. .... You need to be prepared to go any place you listed on your GAL, & you should be financially & emotionally prepared to pick up stick & move there for a while. It is what it is, and you'll never figure it out, unless you're the Chief. So focus on what you can control --and get ready for your next interview! Best of luck to all !!

[masondixon]

Everyone here needs to realize that being three striked simply means an ALJ candidate had an unfavorable final agency interview or poor references, at least in the eyes of SSA. The three strikes are then used as a pretext not to hire that person. It can happen to outside private practitioners, attorneys working for other government agencies, or SSA & ODAR insiders. However, the rule may have been applied in an over-broad manner this time around, even excluding a few people SSA never intended to exclude from consideration. At least that is what I am hearing. We shall see.

[sta]

The original question asked:

"Does anyone have good information about how the transfer list really works? I know several people who are first on the list for a particular city, waiting for a transfer. But that same office/city appears on the gal list, no offers have been made to those at the top of the list, so it appears that any opening would be filled by a new candidate. .....I understand that some individuals may have to turn down a transfer because of timing, etc...but considering a list of 5-10 people, wouldn't most of us conclude that any openings would be filled by transfer? Are there rules or guidelines for filling slots with transfers? Does the ALJ union play any part?"

In response to this question, very recently, the transfer list worked as follows: A judge requested a transfer after being hired the last go around but was not on the top of the transfer list for a particular city. The judge who was on the top of the list for that city was contacted and turned down the offer. The agency did not go down the transfer list to offer the job to the second judge. Apparently, then, the current interpretation of the collective bargaining provision is that the Agency need only make one offer, which if declined, allows it to go to the outside and select off the external register (certificate) for a given city. At least that is what happened.

[Taylor20]

sta says: ". . . very recently, the transfer list worked as follows: A judge requested a transfer after being hired the last go around but was not on the top of the transfer list for a particular city. The judge who was on the top of the list for that city was contacted and turned down the offer. The agency did not go down the transfer list to offer the job to the second judge. Apparently, then, the current interpretation of the collective bargaining provision is that the Agency need only make one offer, which if declined, allows it to go to the outside and select off the external register (certificate) for a given city. At least that is what happened."

Wow, if that is the way it works, that does not speak well for the ability of ALJs to transfer once they get accepted into the corps; i.e. you don't get to transfer unless you are The Top Person on the transfer list. Can anyone out there either confirm or dispute that that is the transfer methodology.

[tricia]

Mason Dixon said: "Everyone here needs to realize that being three striked simply means an ALJ candidate had an unfavorable final agency interview or poor references, at least in the eyes of SSA. The three strikes are then used as a pretext not to hire that person."
I don't know. I am an under-60 scorer, so I have only been on one previous certificate. Now, of the under-60 people in the current poll, there are 40 who got the email, and I am one of only seven who didn't. My sense is that my interview with SS went well, because there were a lot of similarities in my work experience and that of the interviewers. I really can't imagine that any of my references said anything negative about me. So, it seems to me that, because I had a wide open GAL, I was considered three times or more in that one cert, and that that's why I didn't make this cert.
What do other no-email people think?

[masondixon]

Unfortunately, your situation is consistent with what I heard. In their haste to not reconsider true three striked ALJ candidates, SSA eliminated virtually all candidates actually considered during a previous certificate off the current register. They used to reconsider a good number of such candidates again because the agency interview yielded a hiring recommendation. Yet, I heard that SSA threw the baby out with the bath water during the current hiring cycle, to your apparent detriment. I beieve SSA has new people in charge of "working the certificate" this time around. There is nothing rational or logical about this hiring process from the start (AR submissions within a 24 to 36 hour deadline) to the completion (the calls from SSA after a final interview). Hang in there. I got started with the OPM process 13 years before I finally got hired by SSA. I have no explanation for my dramatic change of fortune other than perserverance. Keep with your effort!

[justthefacts]

Thank you Sta, for bringing the original question back...
Your information is very helpful. I have heard that in some cases they have gone down the transfer line maybe 2 or 3, other times...only to the top one as you mentioned. I guess SSA has the option of doing either and there is no "rule" so to speak.
Its sad though...filling it with a sitting ALJ from the transfer list would not cost the govt the cost of the move (the transferee pays his/her own move). So if SSA ended up filling the position with a new ALJ from the cert whose move would be paid for by SSA, this choice would cost the SSA, and moves aren't cheap. Also, it would certainly lend to increase the "happiness factor" of the ALJ if he/she could work in the office that works best for them. If they are eventually going to end up there...why not just get them there sooner rather than later. Ok, maybe that makes too much sense.
Does anyone have any idea if the transfer list is still being worked right now??
If anyone has any any additional info on what you have seen or experienced regarding the transfer list, your comments are most appreciated...

[tigerfan]

Oh gosh, I hate to get into trying to explain the transfer list -- again but since none of the vets have chipped in here goes. Priority for the list is. Hardship, Management ALJs (ie HOCALJs, RCALJs), union ALJs and ALJs from other agencies. There are not very many of the first two or the fouth but there are some. The Union contract provides that a union ALJ must be offered a transfer before anyone new is hired for an AlJ position and it only provides that one transfer be offered per opening. The union contract also provides that an ALJ must have served at least 2 years as an Alj in his/her current location before becoming eligible for transfer. Now, having said all that the past practice has been to go down the entire union alj list before offering an appointment to someone from outside AND it has also been past practice to require the an AlJ serve only 90 days initially before being eligible for a transfer. Once an ALJ accepts a transfer he is not eligible for another transfer for 2 years (not 90 days). An ALJ can be disqualified from being eligible for a transfer for one year by receiving a reprimand (has happened) and some other reasons (rare). Voluntary transfers do not cost the government money but they do cost production. OK, this should get things going for awhile.

[bartleby]

Tigerfan, don't forget the national hearing center ALJ's also have a list and it takes priority over the transfer list as they are considered managing ALJs and there are a bunch of them.. Also there is a large contigency that believe most hardships are bogus and the condition was pre-existing prior to the ALJ accepting the position.

[judicature]

The NHC ALJs are on the same list as the management ALJs - HOCALJs and RCALJs. They are considered management because they have supervisory functions.

[arkstfan]

While it isn't the best thing for the sanity of applicants, the agency has its own interests to put first. Not everyone on the transfer list will accept an offer, an office with one opening can quickly become an office with two or three openings due to the health issues of an ALJ, a sudden medical crisis a couple states away involving a close family member, a decision to pursue a management position or a decision to pursue a position in a different agency.

Asking for a cert that involves all known openings before working the transfer list gives the agency flexibility.

Don't assume that because there are many people on the list that a position will be filled by transfer. Two people ahead of me declined allowing me to get my transfer. A co-worker recently transferred because two people ahead of him declined.

There are just too many factors to assume a person on the list will accept.
- Some just want on the list because they want to be in position for a few years down the road to get to the place or near the place they want to retire.
- Some listed a place to get close to the grandkids and now their kids are looking at moving so why move to Fargo if your son and the grandkids may not be there when you arrive?
- Some cannot afford to take the hit on selling their home.
- Some went on the list but now their spouse has found a job they really like and don't want to move.
- Some listed the city as a back-up plan in case their first preference wasn't possible and they opt to decline to avoid the two year wait to get on the list to go where they really want to be.
- Some have changed their work goals and now want to pursue management.

[redwhiteblue]

Does anyone happen to know if the the NHCs hire in new ALJs or only take in transfers?