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Post by JudgeRatty on Nov 1, 2013 14:05:20 GMT -5
Yes, epic0ego, I also have heard that people in the 40's were being picked up. Hopefully they will put the next hire on hold until all the new scores are in and they can pull from the top of the barrel. I personally know one individual who had a score in the 40's who is now an ALJ. Recent hire from a 7th or so certificate (don't remember which one) off the last register.
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Post by 71stretch on Nov 1, 2013 14:34:57 GMT -5
Yes, epic0ego, I also have heard that people in the 40's were being picked up. Hopefully they will put the next hire on hold until all the new scores are in and they can pull from the top of the barrel. There's no "hopefully" about that one... they will not be hiring again before the new register is in place.
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Post by redryder on Nov 1, 2013 16:06:35 GMT -5
Funky made a comment about the budget. That may turn out to be the biggest hurdle to hiring. Each region only gets some many FTEs (full time equivalents) and this is budget driven. And those have to be divvied up based on what the regional workforce looks like. An office may have one or more vacant ALJ offices but it does not have the support staff either. If there is currently not enough staff to support the existing judge corp for that office, management may decide to use FTEs to hire techs or writers and not judges. Another consideration is workload. If the office does not have work to justify another judge, it may be passed over even though there is a vacant office. There are far more factors in play than a vacant ALJ office.
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Post by gottabeme on Nov 1, 2013 16:38:59 GMT -5
I hope you are right observer53. I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. Of course I am not privy to any 1st hand info, anymore that anyone else on here, but this person does have their hand in the mix a little. (or at least they would like us to believe they do) LOL
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Post by 71stretch on Nov 1, 2013 16:59:42 GMT -5
I hope you are right observer53. I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. Of course I am not privy to any 1st hand info, anymore that anyone else on here, but this person does have their hand in the mix a little. (or at least they would like us to believe they do) LOL Given the ongoing budget issues, and what's been posted elsewhere here about hiring, I don't think that holds much water.
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Post by lildavey on Nov 1, 2013 17:18:36 GMT -5
I hope you are right observer53. I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. Of course I am not privy to any 1st hand info, anymore that anyone else on here, but this person does have their hand in the mix a little. (or at least they would like us to believe they do) LOL Given the ongoing budget issues, and what's been posted elsewhere here about hiring, I don't think that holds much water. My understanding is that the "old" register is dead and that the class that's at Falls Church right now got hired because there was money in the kitty at the end of the fiscal.
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Post by chessparent on Nov 1, 2013 17:47:04 GMT -5
Ooo-got to get me a "money Kitty." All I have is a "poor" ol dachshund.
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Post by chessparent on Nov 1, 2013 17:55:19 GMT -5
And he doesn't contribute a d$%& thing.
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Post by workdrone on Nov 1, 2013 18:29:14 GMT -5
I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. No one in my circle mentioned anything about a January hire. And in light of the Agency conventional wisdom about what's left on the current register, I don't think there will be any hiring until the new one is ready next Spring. Playing the devil's advocate, if there is indeed a "short hire" in January, it would be for a very small group of people (most likely insiders) that the Agency already know it wants and can finally reach. Thus, due to it's very limited scale and specific targets, I don't think it will matter much in plugging the ALJ attrition gap even if it happens.
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true
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Post by true on Nov 4, 2013 3:01:43 GMT -5
I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. No one in my circle mentioned anything about a January hire. And in light of the Agency conventional wisdom about what's left on the current register, I don't think there will be any hiring until the new one is ready next Spring. Playing the devil's advocate, if there is indeed a "short hire" in January, it would be for a very small group of people (most likely insiders) that the Agency already know it wants and can finally reach. Thus, due to it's very limited scale and specific targets, I don't think it will matter much in plugging the ALJ attrition gap even if it happens. Would it stand to reason that if there is a mass exodus of ALJs in 2014, combined with 6 months to a year of training for newly appointed ALJs, ODAR would actively seek out former "insiders" who now practice before the Agency? They already had training and should know SSA law, and they would have likely participated in multiple hearings, and thus can hit the ground running.
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Post by moopigsdad on Nov 4, 2013 8:24:43 GMT -5
No one in my circle mentioned anything about a January hire. And in light of the Agency conventional wisdom about what's left on the current register, I don't think there will be any hiring until the new one is ready next Spring. Playing the devil's advocate, if there is indeed a "short hire" in January, it would be for a very small group of people (most likely insiders) that the Agency already know it wants and can finally reach. Thus, due to it's very limited scale and specific targets, I don't think it will matter much in plugging the ALJ attrition gap even if it happens. Would it stand to reason that if there is a mass exodus of ALJs in 2014, combined with 6 months to a year of training for newly appointed ALJs, ODAR would actively seek out former "insiders" who now practice before the Agency? They already had training and should know SSA law, and they would have likely participated in multiple hearings, and thus can hit the ground running. Nice try true. It only works that way if you do well on the agency interview when and if you make a cert and have an interview. The agency interview (and your references) will determine whether the agency hires you, not just your past work experience to "hit the ground running".
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true
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Post by true on Nov 4, 2013 9:01:15 GMT -5
Would it stand to reason that if there is a mass exodus of ALJs in 2014, combined with 6 months to a year of training for newly appointed ALJs, ODAR would actively seek out former "insiders" who now practice before the Agency? They already had training and should know SSA law, and they would have likely participated in multiple hearings, and thus can hit the ground running. Nice try true. It only works that way if you do well on the agency interview when and if you make a cert and have an interview. The agency interview (and your references) will determine whether the agency hires you, not just your past work experience to "hit the ground running". I was that obvious huh? Lol!
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Post by Ace Midnight on Nov 4, 2013 9:17:20 GMT -5
I heard rumor that a short hire was coming in January. No one in my circle mentioned anything about a January hire. And in light of the Agency conventional wisdom about what's left on the current register, I don't think there will be any hiring until the new one is ready next Spring. There is virtually no way the new register takes until Spring to be completed. I recognize that hiring authority is a different animal entirely, but it is highly likely or even probable that the current applicants will receive NORs and the register in place for certificates prior to any hypothetical January 2014 (2Q, FY2014) hiring, assuming such hiring authority and budget will support such a hire. Again, I will be more shocked if the NORs go out after December 6th, than before Thanksgiving. I am basing this on past practices by OPM, taking into consideration that they added 2 fairly easy to grade sections to the current application process, one of which was graded prior to the DC phase.
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true
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Post by true on Nov 4, 2013 9:33:00 GMT -5
No one in my circle mentioned anything about a January hire. And in light of the Agency conventional wisdom about what's left on the current register, I don't think there will be any hiring until the new one is ready next Spring. There is virtually no way the new register takes until Spring to be completed. I recognize that hiring authority is a different animal entirely, but it is highly likely or even probable that the current applicants will receive NORs and the register in place for certificates prior to any hypothetical January 2014 (2Q, FY2014) hiring, assuming such hiring authority and budget will support such a hire. Again, I will be more shocked if the NORs go out after December 6th, than before Thanksgiving. I am basing this on past practices by OPM, taking into consideration that they added 2 fairly easy to grade sections to the current application process, one of which was graded prior to the DC phase. Some of the judges are anxiously anticipating our hire! They are hoping for a 2013 hire. Therefore, an early 2014 is possible and I believe likely.
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Post by Gaidin on Nov 4, 2013 10:46:30 GMT -5
Based on past practices I think the NORs come out around Thanksgiving but maybe a little later. The shut down may have delayed things. I know people keep saying the holidays slow things down. That is true but they also create deadlines that people must complete before going out of the office.
I wouldn't anticipate any hiring or certs until the budget mess is straightened out in January. I can easily see it happening immediately afterwards when the agencies have an idea how many ALJs they can hire.
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Post by ssaogc on Nov 4, 2013 14:43:58 GMT -5
Based on past practices I think the NORs come out around Thanksgiving but maybe a little later. The shut down may have delayed things. I know people keep saying the holidays slow things down. That is true but they also create deadlines that people must complete before going out of the office. I wouldn't anticipate any hiring or certs until the budget mess is straightened out in January. I can easily see it happening immediately afterwards when the agencies have an idea how many ALJs they can hire. I would be surprised if we saw the NORs earlier than the latter part of January 14. When they release the NORs they need to be ready to handle appeals. Appeal panels will include the hiring of retired ALJs and the availability of these folks during the holidays is usually not great for obvious reasons. Further, the folks that are hired by OPM need to be budgeted for and with no budget past Jan 15 such hiring is difficult, who is going to take on a part time job that might end shortly after it begins? Since SSA forks over the bulk of the money to OPM for the testing process they certainly should have some say on how and when OPM will incur expenses, there is nothing to stop SSA fiscal managers from asking OPM for a say on personnel decisions used to run the OPM ALJ program office. I know we are all anxious as heck but I would be cautious in expecting NORs to come out before Jan 15 given the budget reality/uncertainty.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Nov 4, 2013 15:30:32 GMT -5
I would be surprised if we saw the NORs earlier than the latter part of January 14. When they release the NORs they need to be ready to handle appeals. Appeal panels will include the hiring of retired ALJs and the availability of these folks during the holidays is usually not great for obvious reasons. Further, the folks that are hired by OPM need to be budgeted for and with no budget past Jan 15 such hiring is difficult, who is going to take on a part time job that might end shortly after it begins? Since SSA forks over the bulk of the money to OPM for the testing process they certainly should have some say on how and when OPM will incur expenses, there is nothing to stop SSA fiscal managers from asking OPM for a say on personnel decisions used to run the OPM ALJ program office. I know we are all anxious as heck but I would be cautious in expecting NORs to come out before Jan 15 given the budget reality/uncertainty. I'm not saying that this doesn't have a certain amount of reflective wisdom. I hadn't thought of appeals being part of this organic process (although they are). However, I was under the impression that, short of an injunction, they could continue the process, pending the appeals. Also, this would put the end-to-end time of this process at just short of 1 year, if there are no NORs and no new register until late January or early February 2014. There is no historical basis for that. The last 3 times, the time from application closing to first (ODAR) offers was 9 months (2007), 10 months (2008) and 9 months (2009). Now, because there was a 2+ month gap from application to "Phase II", that may account for the dip, but that would have been at the front end and we're already passed the DC phase at this point. You (and others in the January 2014 camp) have a point that it would fit with ODAR's preferred battle rhythym of late - Agency interviews late January/early February, offers in late February/early March, report in April/May with training in June/July - THAT part certainly makes sense, but I don't see them holding NORs (and the register itself) for 3 full months - there may not be a Medicare certificate until January 2014 and an ODAR in February, but that will be based on budget/hiring authority issues. In my mind, OPM wants to complete their portion of the process and get a new register published - heck that's the whole purpose of the thing. Just my $0.02 and probably not worth that.
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Post by ssaogc on Nov 4, 2013 15:51:54 GMT -5
I would be surprised if we saw the NORs earlier than the latter part of January 14. When they release the NORs they need to be ready to handle appeals. Appeal panels will include the hiring of retired ALJs and the availability of these folks during the holidays is usually not great for obvious reasons. Further, the folks that are hired by OPM need to be budgeted for and with no budget past Jan 15 such hiring is difficult, who is going to take on a part time job that might end shortly after it begins? Since SSA forks over the bulk of the money to OPM for the testing process they certainly should have some say on how and when OPM will incur expenses, there is nothing to stop SSA fiscal managers from asking OPM for a say on personnel decisions used to run the OPM ALJ program office. I know we are all anxious as heck but I would be cautious in expecting NORs to come out before Jan 15 given the budget reality/uncertainty. I'm not saying that this doesn't have a certain amount of reflective wisdom. I hadn't thought of appeals being part of this organic process (although they are). However, I was under the impression that, short of an injunction, they could continue the process, pending the appeals. Also, this would put the end-to-end time of this process at just short of 1 year, if there are no NORs and no new register until late January or early February 2014. There is no historical basis for that. The last 3 times, the time from application closing to first (ODAR) offers was 9 months (2007), 10 months (2008) and 9 months (2009). Now, because there was a 2+ month gap from application to "Phase II", that may account for the dip, but that would have been at the front end and we're already passed the DC phase at this point. You (and others in the January 2014 camp) have a point that it would fit with ODAR's preferred battle rhythym of late - Agency interviews late January/early February, offers in late February/early March, report in April/May with training in June/July - THAT part certainly makes sense, but I don't see them holding NORs (and the register itself) for 3 full months - there may not be a Medicare certificate until January 2014 and an ODAR in February, but that will be based on budget/hiring authority issues. In my mind, OPM wants to complete their portion of the process and get a new register published - heck that's the whole purpose of the thing. Just my $0.02 and probably not worth that. This is going to be an appeals process that is on steroids compared to the other examinations. Back then they capped out the number of applicants and they could probably forecast with a degree of certainty the number of appeals they would receive from the number of folks they eliminated. This round had 4K, maybe even 5K applicants and if estimation of ~1200 moving to phase three you are looking at at least .75% of applicants who did not move forward to phase III. You will also have appeals for phase I, Phase II and Phase III. These numbers and different phases did not exist the last time around. And I would like to note that even people that make it onto the register--who do not like their score, are going to take a chance and appeal. Furthermore, the last three years you mentioned above did not have the havoc associated with the budget that we currently have. Another round of sequestration takes affect come January---I do not know how much cuts the SSA operating budget is going to have to take and this may affect SSA's ability to meet payment committments to OPM. Anyhow, interesting times we live in. I am just as anxious as you all are and I really hope to be surprised with an NOR before Dec 31, 2013 but am not going to expect it.
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Post by moopigsdad on Nov 4, 2013 16:20:09 GMT -5
When you look at the timelines from the past testings/registers it has taken anywhere from three to five months from when the WD/SI invitations go out until when the NORs are sent out. This time the WD/SI invitations went out 7/11/2013, hence the release of NORs should occur prior to the end of this year unless they are going to take the longest time yet to issue NORs. I still suspect it will be in early December 2013 for release of the NORs for this register. Yet, I wouldn't be surprised by an earlier or a later release of the NORs either.
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 4, 2013 16:46:25 GMT -5
I, for one, do not think there will be a gov't shutdown on January 15th. But I did not think there would be one last month either. there will be a price to pay come 2014 elections, and I don't think the politicians will want to exacerbate that problem. a further can-kicking down the budget road would be just as bad, if not worse. funding at 2013 sequester levels is not a bad outcome because there would be advance notice of spending cut-backs spread over 12 months instead of 6. Remember, we are operating on sequester-level spending as we speak. SSA was one of the very few agencies that was permitted an increased infusion of cash in the late spring 2013. I will go out on a limb and predict that SSA funding will remain the same or increase - not cut back.
the other point already made is that ODAR is the "client" of OPM's ALJ hiring process - more like the "pink elephant in the room" - type, client. Kudos to OPM on the speed and quality of the hiring process thusfar, especially considering the extreme anomaly of the shutdown. But in the end, they will cater to ODAR's needs. ODAR will get the funding, and ODAR wants a truckload of ALJs as fast as they can get them. NOR announcements before Thanksgiving or Christmas seems a tad ambitious to me, even for OPM. Whether its the Grinch or Santa, I look for it to happen after the first of the year, with certs following shortly (February) thereafter.
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