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appeals
Feb 19, 2014 16:26:43 GMT -5
Post by southernlawyer on Feb 19, 2014 16:26:43 GMT -5
Question from a friend not on board (another 20 year litigator rejected and told not enough experience...geez....)....he filed an appeal and is still waiting to hear back....does anyone know anything about if/when decisions will come on the appeals? And out of curiousity, has anyone ever actually won an appeal and moved forward? Thanks for any information you can provide.
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Post by funkyodar on Feb 19, 2014 16:35:51 GMT -5
Southern,
They aren't gonna rule on appeals till the new register is set.
And by all means appeal. I know 2 judges that were cut, won their appeal and are both great aljs.
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appeals
Feb 19, 2014 16:38:03 GMT -5
Post by privateatty on Feb 19, 2014 16:38:03 GMT -5
Yes, folks win appeals. I have no direct knowledge of same, but have seen on this Board that they have been successful.
As to when, my understanding is that they will be addressed after the Register is established.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 19, 2014 17:13:07 GMT -5
Let me offer an amendment. I took the time to research. Read the early posts from "southernmiss"--AA, SA now one heckuva ALJ... She got shot down over a technical mistake, picked herself off the floor and as they say, the rest is history.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Feb 19, 2014 18:10:26 GMT -5
I personally know of 2 people who did the same, appealed and are now ALJs. They said it took "years" to accomplish, but the end result was worth it. Also, I have to note that just because an individual "actually" has x number of years experience, does not mean they translated that into their application. The application had very specific guidance and directions on what to detail. If the individual did not detail the specifics, that may be why they were cut. Not trying to start a debate here, but there is merit to cutting people who cannot follow directions in an application. A line has to be drawn somewhere. Again, not trying to be mean or controversial, but IF that is why they were cut....I can see that as a basis. Now, there may be a very valid appeal if the individual who was reading the description did not have the experience to understand the "legalese" of the detailed description, which is an entirely different matter.
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Post by southernlawyer on Feb 19, 2014 21:27:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. Scratty I'm going to say the person reading the description did not have the experience to appreciate what this person did/is doing. Very high end multi district arbitration. I read his responses - they were fine. He is definitely more qualified than I ever hoped to be, and I've been an alj for a while now. But, I've been completely shocked at the very qualified people cut this time around - a chief judge from our state comp board, long time litigators, long time senior staff attorneys, long time group sups…people who really do have what it takes. I'm not real confident in the new procedure - seems to be weeding out the very people we would want as ALJs.
On another note - After I made the post, I, too heard of 2 ALJs who won appeals…perhaps they are the same 2 mentioned throughout this thread…great to know someone won.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 21, 2014 7:28:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. Scratty I'm going to say the person reading the description did not have the experience to appreciate what this person did/is doing. Very high end multi district arbitration. I read his responses - they were fine. He is definitely more qualified than I ever hoped to be, and I've been an alj for a while now. But, I've been completely shocked at the very qualified people cut this time around - a chief judge from our state comp board, long time litigators, long time senior staff attorneys, long time group sups…people who really do have what it takes. I'm not real confident in the new procedure - seems to be weeding out the very people we would want as ALJs. On another note - After I made the post, I, too heard of 2 ALJs who won appeals…perhaps they are the same 2 mentioned throughout this thread…great to know someone won. This process rewards the hungy and the diligent. Were there mistakes made by OPM's reviewers of the AR? You betcha. But I would warrant that alot of the rejected State Judges and otherwise qualifed folks who didn't get hired made a grave error--they didn't thrice check their answers to ensure they gave EXACTLY what was asked and they were not specific enough, assuming that their credentials spoke for themselves--which in their mind makes sense. Trouble is they didn't really understand this process and what was being asked. A State court judge is just another applicant, period. If if the reviewer finds any mistake or ambiguity that they question then that's one more that they can reject.
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appeals
Mar 4, 2014 17:40:56 GMT -5
Post by Ready-Now! on Mar 4, 2014 17:40:56 GMT -5
Okay someone help me understand this appeal process. I was under the belief that I must wait until NORs were issued before I could legitimately appeal anything.......am I wrong?
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appeals
Mar 4, 2014 17:47:06 GMT -5
Post by 71stretch on Mar 4, 2014 17:47:06 GMT -5
Okay someone help me understand this appeal process. I was under the belief that I must wait until NORs were issued before I could legitimately appeal anything.......am I wrong? I think you are right. If you have not received an NOR, (there was a post here somewhere that suggested that someone who was eliminated at an early stage had received an NORl;; I've also seen info that there was "appeal info" given to those bounced at step 1, but I don't know what that appeal info was) your appeal rights don't start until you get one, as the way to file an appeal is set forth on that document. Even people who make the register have the right to appeal their score, so all the NORs have appeal rights on them.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 4, 2014 18:42:59 GMT -5
Okay someone help me understand this appeal process. I was under the belief that I must wait until NORs were issued before I could legitimately appeal anything.......am I wrong? The appeals mentioned in the couple of posts above are referencing years past and not this current application process. I too remember some folks who had instructions about the appeal process and that information was in the email they received when cut at an earlier process. I would consult that email to be sure but I have also heard the process of appeal does not begin until an NOR is received. Observer posted first and is more accurate.
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appeals
Mar 4, 2014 20:17:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by funkyodar on Mar 4, 2014 20:17:55 GMT -5
I may be totally wrong here (a rather common occurence), but I think it may depend on when in the process you were cut.
Seems I recall a friend who was cut at phase 1 (ie he was told he didn't have the required 7 years of litigation). If I recall correctly, he had some time period mentioned within his "thanks for playing" email within which he had to file his appeal. I think he told me he did so and got a form email saying they had received it but would not rule on appeals until the reg was set.
That would make sense and comport with the job announcement that seems to indicate if you are cut because they think you don't have the 7 years, you won't be scored. Thus, no nor.
Contrarily, those cut after phase 2, the online tests, will get scored and presumably a nor. So, those applicants may have to wait till they get nors even to file their appeal.
In any event, I think opm has been clear they won't decide any appeals till the reg is set. But, as for when you can file the appeal, I think that depends on where in the process you were cut.
Again, I may be entirely wrong.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 4, 2014 21:01:29 GMT -5
I may be totally wrong here (a rather common occurence), but I think it may depend on when in the process you were cut. Seems I recall a friend who was cut at phase 1 (ie he was told he didn't have the required 7 years of litigation). If I recall correctly, he had some time period mentioned within his "thanks for playing" email within which he had to file his appeal. I think he told me he did so and got a form email saying they had received it but would not rule on appeals until the reg was set. That would make sense and comport with the job announcement that seems to indicate if you are cut because they think you don't have the 7 years, you won't be scored. Thus, no nor. Contrarily, those cut after phase 2, the online tests, will get scored and presumably a nor. So, those applicants may have to wait till they get nors even to file their appeal. In any event, I think opm has been clear they won't decide any appeals till the reg is set. But, as for when you can file the appeal, I think that depends on where in the process you were cut. Again, I may be entirely wrong. This is how I interpret it as well. The NOR is the key, but if you are cut at the beginning you don't even qualify for an NOR hence you can appeal immediately.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 4, 2014 21:04:01 GMT -5
With that said what are the remedies? Do they allow you to proceed and test further if you win the appeal or do you simply win a ticket to the register?
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Post by sarahb on Mar 4, 2014 21:28:24 GMT -5
I filed an appeal the last time the cert was open. I waited a year and a half and onen day I received an email stating my appeal was granted. I came with a small group of veterans to test. Ultimately I did receive an appointment.
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appeals
Mar 4, 2014 21:28:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hopefalj on Mar 4, 2014 21:28:44 GMT -5
With that said what are the remedies? Do they allow you to proceed and test further if you win the appeal or do you simply win a ticket to the register? I believe you still have to test if you are allowed to proceed. I think they lump those folks in with 10-point vets that apply later.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 5, 2014 10:02:42 GMT -5
With that said what are the remedies? Do they allow you to proceed and test further if you win the appeal or do you simply win a ticket to the register? I believe you still have to test if you are allowed to proceed. I think they lump those folks in with 10-point vets that apply later. That would make sense. Winning an appeal on a DQ at stage 1 should certainly not get you a "ticket to the register". A successful appeal would just put your token back on the game board at the spot where it fell off. So, you could win your appeal from a DQ at stage 1 and then get eliminated again at a later stage.....now there's a cheerful thought. Not.
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 5, 2014 12:07:13 GMT -5
I believe you still have to test if you are allowed to proceed. I think they lump those folks in with 10-point vets that apply later. That would make sense. Winning an appeal on a DQ at stage 1 should certainly not get you a "ticket to the register". A successful appeal would just put your token back on the game board at the spot where it fell off. So, you could win your appeal from a DQ at stage 1 and then get eliminated again at a later stage.....now there's a cheerful thought. Not. You'd also end up on the register with a score of zero, so it wouldn't do you a whole lot of good just to jump on the list anyway. I'm curious to follow the appeals of folks in the future. I would think the folks cut at the initial stage have a significantly better chance than those cut at the testing levels, but I'm not sure how much better.
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