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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Feb 21, 2014 11:24:32 GMT -5
observer53 said in recent thread:
[Y]ou are asked for three judicial references, three "adversarial" references (if you haven't been litigating and don't have adversaries, you can list other lawyers who can speak well of you in answering the standard questions) and three general references familiar with your work in the legal community. (you can use other supervisors from earlier jobs, for instance). All nine are not always contacted, but choose them as if they will be. There are old threads here about the questions that have always been asked in the past. I would not be surprised if those questions, like a lot of other things, change this time around.
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I have some questions about references:
1. The gist I have gotten from the threads is that these references will be questioned more extensively and closely, and what they say will be more determinative of the outcome, than most reference checks. Can anyone confirm this, and what is the theme of this grilling? Do they need to have chapter and verse on your practice, or just some familiarity with it, and be able to say you would make a good judge?
2. Like many of us, I haven't had a "supervisor" in over 20 years. What is the best strategy: use long-time clients who have seen your work (but aren't lawyers)? Use lawyer peers with whom you have worked who know the quality of your work and can vouch? Other?
3. Adversarial references: Most adversaries have been one-and-done (my location is flush with attorneys). Most of these and I have a mutual respect and would provide a good reference for each other based on that one case. Is this sufficient?
All tips are appreciated.
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Post by 71stretch on Feb 21, 2014 11:52:12 GMT -5
If you do a search, you will find the questions that have historically been asked for several cert cycles on the current register. (f memory serves, they were posted by member "northwest" Of course, it is possible that the questions will change, but I'd still provide those questions to your listed references.
I don't think long time clients would be a good choice. Better to have lawyers in the community who can vouch for your work, etc.
EDIT: Here you go with the questions, copied from 2010:
Dear ___:
Thank you so much for agreeing to be a reference for me. My understanding is that the Social Security Administration contracts with an organization to call the references. You can either talk to them by telephone, or they can e-mail you the questions and you can e-mail back your answers. I learned that the following are the questions that were asked of references last time SSA hired ALJs. Of course I want you to answer candidly and truthfully. However, as a reminder, I've known you since ____...... (fill in with any details that will help your reference answer the questions.))
How long have you known the candidate? What is the type and frequency of your association?. Based on your knowledge, is the applicant a respected member of the legal community? Why? How would you describe his/her expertise and professional qualifications? What in your opinion are his/her strengths and weaknesses? {{Note: this is a trick question!! You don't really have to say I have any weaknesses}} What is your understanding of the applicant's typical workload? What percent of the applicant's work schedule would you estimate is spent in the court room? How would you describe his/her interaction with others? Does the applicant display adherence to professional standards of conduct, reliability and diligence to discharge their professional responsibility? SSA is looking for an applicant who is ethical, hardworking and knowledgeable about the law and procedure. In your opinion, does the applicant have this capability? The position of Administrative Law Judge requires applicant be capable of managing and adjudicating up to 700 cases per year. In your opinion, does applicant have this capability? Would you recommend this applicant for a position as an Administrative Law Judge? Why/Why not? Is there any other information which would be helpful to SSA in making a decision on the applicant's qualifications?
I understand that the people contracted to do reference checks simply record the answers, and probably would not be able to answer your questions, such as what does the "700 cases per year" mean. I've learned that sometimes people respond to this type of question, "If anyone can do that heavy of a caseload, ___ can", or "____ is very diligent, and is sure to get the job done."
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Post by sealaw90 on Feb 21, 2014 12:18:55 GMT -5
Thank you Ob53. I just cut and paste your post onto my "list of references" document for (hopefully) future use.
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Post by lawbird on Feb 21, 2014 15:44:51 GMT -5
I have been a reference for two OGC attorneys who then went on to become ALJs. So I guess my references helped. I was the adversarial attorney that both of these candidates chose. I can confirm that those questions look exactly like what I was asked. One of the queries was in writing; the other one was by telephone. They really want fully developed answers, with full explanations for why you think the way you do about the person.
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Post by aljwatch on Feb 21, 2014 15:49:28 GMT -5
Thank you, Observer53, for re-posting those questions. I knew they were here somewhere, and it has saved a lot of time looking. Much appreciated!
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Feb 21, 2014 16:23:20 GMT -5
Thanks a million, observer53 and lawbird--very helpful!
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Post by 71stretch on Feb 21, 2014 16:30:04 GMT -5
You are welcome.
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Post by lawbird on Feb 21, 2014 17:01:57 GMT -5
Welcome from me too. In fact, I'll give you a little more. Based on my experience with having to answer these questions, and not really being prepared to going to the kind of detail that they really wanted, especially on the phone call interview, I plan to take each of my references out to lunch and fully prepare them. I will remind them of projects we have worked on together, my dedication and perseverance in those matters, and what other good memories I can dredge up of my work habits. That way it will be fresh in the mind of my reference, and they will be able to speak much more fluently to my good qualities.
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Post by peterprinciple on Feb 21, 2014 22:54:52 GMT -5
Several of my references asked whether I knew what the reference checkers would ask them about me and I provided them the above list of questions. They confirmed to me it was exactly what they were asked and said having the questions beforehand proved helpful to them in formulating their answers in greater detail and with better personal/professional anecdotes with which they could respond. A couple years later, when I was a reference for another candidate, they were still utilizing the exact same set of questions. Obviously, with the recent overhaul of the process, these questions may have changed. Nevertheless, if you feel comfortable providing these to your references, they may still prove a valuable basis for understanding what the checkers will be looking for.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 22, 2014 12:56:07 GMT -5
I have been a reference for two OGC attorneys who then went on to become ALJs. So I guess my references helped. I was the adversarial attorney that both of these candidates chose. I can confirm that those questions look exactly like what I was asked. One of the queries was in writing; the other one was by telephone. They really want fully developed answers, with full explanations for why you think the way you do about the person. I wonder if those former OGC attorneys now Judges still believe that the APA doesn't apply to them? That way when they get disciplined over production because they took maternity leave or had open heart surgery they don't have to go to the MSPB. They can just take their punishment like good attorneys.
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Post by lawbird on Feb 22, 2014 15:05:05 GMT -5
They are both doing just fine , are not having difficulty producing, and have turned into two of the best judges in the Region.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 22, 2014 17:26:12 GMT -5
They are both doing just fine , are not having difficulty producing, and have turned into two of the best judges in the Region. Good and I hope you know I mean that. I have no quarrel with them. All's that keeps us truly independent is the APA and what Congress giveth they can taketh away. "We must indeed all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." Samuel Johnson
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Post by privateatty on Feb 22, 2014 18:12:46 GMT -5
observer53 said in recent thread: [Y]ou are asked for three judicial references, three "adversarial" references (if you haven't been litigating and don't have adversaries, you can list other lawyers who can speak well of you in answering the standard questions) and three general references familiar with your work in the legal community. (you can use other supervisors from earlier jobs, for instance). All nine are not always contacted, but choose them as if they will be. There are old threads here about the questions that have always been asked in the past. I would not be surprised if those questions, like a lot of other things, change this time around. ....................... I have some questions about references: 1. The gist I have gotten from the threads is that these references will be questioned more extensively and closely, and what they say will be more determinative of the outcome, than most reference checks. Can anyone confirm this, and what is the theme of this grilling? Do they need to have chapter and verse on your practice, or just some familiarity with it, and be able to say you would make a good judge? 2. Like many of us, I haven't had a "supervisor" in over 20 years. What is the best strategy: use long-time clients who have seen your work (but aren't lawyers)? Use lawyer peers with whom you have worked who know the quality of your work and can vouch? Other? 3. Adversarial references: Most adversaries have been one-and-done (my location is flush with attorneys). Most of these and I have a mutual respect and would provide a good reference for each other based on that one case. Is this sufficient? All tips are appreciated. Question #2. Use a judge if you can. Long term lawyer relationships would be next--those who know your character. Work productivity and quality of product are second to this, IMHO. Question #3. Yes, you answered your own question. Tips: A favorite Shakepeare quote regarding Lady MacBeth is a favorite of mine and another poster (sorry I don't remember your name but it might have been you sandiferhands), "the lady, doth protest too much."
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Feb 23, 2014 18:35:51 GMT -5
Thanks, privateatty. Seems to be sage advice, I have much clearer idea now regarding references.
Just hoping now that I actually need some . . .
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