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Post by deltajudge on Feb 22, 2014 20:29:11 GMT -5
8-)This is completely off topic, but bartleby hit a chord about typing. Way back when I was in high school, mid-fifties, boys didn't take typing and shorthand, so a bunch of us boys got together and aaid we were going to take one or both. Some took both, I only did typing, went on to take a semester in college. It served me well over the years, and was somewhat surprised in later years at the number of peers like bart, who couldn't type. As everyone knows it really came in handy when computers showed up. My beg regret over the years, I didn't take shorthand.
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Post by ALJD on Feb 22, 2014 21:19:31 GMT -5
Hey OGC. Kindly, and respectively, please answer the question I posed earlier in this thread (see below). IMHO, justice will be protected/served by an honest response: Are there any assistant U.S. attorneys out there who defend ALJ denials? How much time are you currently allotted to prepare a brief in support of an ALJ denial? That is are you being pushed to draft more than 2.5 SSA briefs a week in a region like the region described above. What are the quotas/production standards for OGC attorneys in relation to SSA ALJ denials?
More specific to the issues raised in this thread to federal Odianaranwannabees, are the quotas/productions standards you are subject to in relation to defending ALJ denials applied in an “one size fits all” approach no matter the region in which you work? It seems strange to me, if I disagreeumptions are correct, that the agency gives OGC attorneys a much "lighter" workload (by the way, I sincerely believe OGC attorneys, on balance, are working hard/to capacity) than the agency wants to give its ALJs who are, as those at the top know, "United States Administrative Law Judges."
Really, I left the AALJ forum to escape crazies like this. This is really getting out of hand. Last I recall the Union filed a lawsuit on this issue and it's still ongoing. Can we not turn this forum into a secondary battleground? Someone will eventually prevail at the Federal courts and the matter will be settled. There is no point in starting a flame war or conduct "discovery" here. I set this forum up for candidates. Not for the AALJers. You folks already have your own forum. Stay there for Labor-Management fights. I don't have a problem with the topic here, but this new poster is obviously more interested in fighting his/her battle than providing any real assistance to candidates. I had enough. Poster banned.
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Post by notyet on Feb 22, 2014 21:44:34 GMT -5
Hey OGC. Kindly, and respectively, please answer the question I posed earlier in this thread (see below). IMHO, justice will be protected/served by an honest response: Are there any assistant U.S. attorneys out there who defend ALJ denials? How much time are you currently allotted to prepare a brief in support of an ALJ denial? That is are you being pushed to draft more than 2.5 SSA briefs a week in a region like the region described above. What are the quotas/production standards for OGC attorneys in relation to SSA ALJ denials?
More specific to the issues raised in this thread to federal Odianaranwannabees, are the quotas/productions standards you are subject to in relation to defending ALJ denials applied in an “one size fits all” approach no matter the region in which you work? It seems strange to me, if I disagreeumptions are correct, that the agency gives OGC attorneys a much "lighter" workload (by the way, I sincerely believe OGC attorneys, on balance, are working hard/to capacity) than the agency wants to give its ALJs who are, as those at the top know, "United States Administrative Law Judges."
Really, I left the AALJ forum to escape crazies like this. This is really getting out of hand. Last I recall the Union filed a lawsuit on this issue and it's still ongoing. Can we not turn this forum into a secondary battleground? Someone will eventually prevail at the Federal courts and the matter will be settled. There is no point in starting a flame war or conduct "discovery" here. I set this forum up for candidates. Not for the AALJers. You folks already have your own forum. Stay there for Labor-Management fights. I don't have a problem with the topic here, but this new poster is obviously more interested in fighting his/her battle than providing any real assistance to candidates. I had enough. Poster banned.
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Post by notyet on Feb 22, 2014 21:51:16 GMT -5
Thanks for styling discussion on what I Thought was the "ALJdiscussion" board set up discuss ALJ-related topics. Really, banning me as a flamer.
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Post by Orly on Feb 22, 2014 21:58:02 GMT -5
Thanks for styling discussion on what I Thought was the "ALJdiscussion" board set up discuss ALJ-related topics. Really, banning me as a flamer. You're mytwocents?!? Just when I thought this place was getting dull...
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woody
Full Member
Posts: 50
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Post by woody on Feb 23, 2014 7:18:14 GMT -5
Of course, your board, your rules and you can ban who you will. However, when I was looking into the job so very long ago I relied on the board for all of my information. Until you have the job the AALJ website is not available to you. The job is not what it was after Astrue, and new candidates ought to know that they are not being asked be judges any more. You will be told to grind out more decisions every year with no control whatsoever over the process. Had I known then what I know now, I would have gone in another direction.
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Post by ALJD on Feb 23, 2014 9:57:32 GMT -5
The job is not what it was after Astrue, and new candidates ought to know that they are not being asked be judges any more. Commissioner Astrue and subsequent management have really tightened the accountability standards, so this job is nothing like what it was back in the 90s. But the actual day-to-day judging remains the same. In some ways it's actually better, since VTCs have largely eliminated the need for traveling to remote sites. You will be told to grind out more decisions every year with no control whatsoever over the process. Hasn't happened to me yet. My day-to-day work has remain the same pre and post Astrtue, but that's probably because I have always done more than 500 a year. I do understand everyone's situation varies, so my experiences don't invalidate yours. It just shows different individuals get different mileage out of the same job. Had I known then what I know now, I would have gone in another direction. And you still can. Go apply for a position with a different Agency. I knew quite a few former SSA ALJs who made the transition and were happier for it. This forum is a place for dissemination and exchange of ideas in a generally civil manner. Topics involving how current ALJs perceive their day-to-day job are valid and valuable to the candidates. However, when a new forum member with only 3 posts calls out another forum member by name, propounds what looks almost like an interrogatory, and DEMANDS answer in the interest of JUSTICE, I can't stand by and do nothing. There is an alternative avenue to those of you that wants to flame and scream. The old board still exists. If poisoning the AALJ forum wasn't enough and you want to keep on flaming, please go here: aljimprovement.proboards.com/board/1Afterall, this is my board, my rules.
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Post by 71stretch on Feb 23, 2014 10:18:34 GMT -5
There is plenty of information on this board, more and more of it lately, about what is happening "on the job" for those of us on the outside to consider in deciding whether the ODAR ALJ position is right for us. Those posts are much different than what happened on this thread, as ALJD points out.
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 23, 2014 14:04:14 GMT -5
I invite everyone overly dissatisfied with their job at SSA to change jobs. Preferably before this first cert is pulled. You know for your own good and all Seriously, though I appreciate a reasoned discussion of the difficulties people have with the job and its challenges. It is helpful information but if you really hate the job why stay?
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Post by ALJD on Feb 23, 2014 14:55:25 GMT -5
Really, banning me as a flamer. I have not banned your "notyet" account and will not do so unless you start acting uncivil again. Please behave yourself if you want to participate. The "mytwocent" account will stay banned since we don't need a Batman here...
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Post by privateatty on Feb 23, 2014 15:16:59 GMT -5
Of course, your board, your rules and you can ban who you will. However, when I was looking into the job so very long ago I relied on the board for all of my information. Until you have the job the AALJ website is not available to you. The job is not what it was after Astrue, and new candidates ought to know that they are not being asked be judges any more. You will be told to grind out more decisions every year with no control whatsoever over the process. Had I known then what I know now, I would have gone in another direction. As an ALJ in another Agency and on behalf of all of us, I think we all have an obligation to try to make the environment we work in a better place--a forum where the litigants who appear before us can achieve equal justice under the law. Oftentimes that simply means a fair due process hearing. In ODAR we all get that you have 90% of the Judges, a Union and management whom, it is safe to say, would like the see all of you hearing officers. Many, like woody see the endless demands for greater output and the lip service paid to quality as part of a process to short change the hearing process and over burden the Judge. It is ultimately the Judge's responsibility to ensure that the Claimant gets a fair shake. From where I sit I have yet to hear that any Judge, newbie or veteran can't do that. All of the Judges I know keep this responsibility in the forefront of their minds. I hear woody and bartleby--we all do and I think its safe to say that most of those on this Board who want to be Judges feel as though they would like to put their shoulder to the wheel of progress to these simple goals. Likewise, Judge Frye and AALJ beleive in this as I have seen them in action from our forum. I get that ALJD and other Judges on this Board can't stand how AALJ conduct their business. So what? We're lawyers and now Judges--case law is rife with opposing views. That is our bedrock. Maybe a lawsuit is the way to go, maybe not. I have to weigh in with ALJD on this one. I don't agree with what he/she did with two cents and whomever else this now banned poster is/was, but heck it is his post. I would have voted for a week suspenstion though. LIke orly I wish I had weighed in on the fun, but now its after the fact. Oh well... In closing I think I will recommend what REALLY matters: our indedepence and how little The United States Circuit Court for the District of Columbia Circuit thinks of Judge Mahoney (an ALJ with guts and determination) and how precious our independence is. Don't take it for granted. www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/B1E0A6BBFC2333B985257B98004F01F6/$file/12-5016-1444038.pdf
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Post by ssareality on Feb 23, 2014 15:47:42 GMT -5
As a reminder, many of us are pretty satisfied, even if we aren't the loudest voices on message boards like this. Sure, I have my ideas for making things a bit better, but to all the prospects out there, please don't get a bad impression from all the doom and gloom you oftentimes see here. Disposition data is public info. If you want to learn about the numbers, look at that data. Mgmt has expectations, just as they do in every other profession I've ever been a part of. And just like every other profession, there will always be some who don't like those expectations, justifiably or not.
Also, as an aside, I just have to say that the ALJ/USALJ debate cracks me up. I will begin calling my colleagues USALJs when they start calling their writers US Attorneys.
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Post by hopefalj on Feb 23, 2014 17:04:21 GMT -5
Of course, your board, your rules and you can ban who you will. However, when I was looking into the job so very long ago I relied on the board for all of my information. Until you have the job the AALJ website is not available to you. The job is not what it was after Astrue, and new candidates ought to know that they are not being asked be judges any more. You will be told to grind out more decisions every year with no control whatsoever over the process. Had I known then what I know now, I would have gone in another direction. As an ALJ in another Agency and on behalf of all of us, I think we all have an obligation to try to make the environment we work in a better place--a forum where the litigants who appear before us can achieve equal justice under the law. Oftentimes that simply means a fair due process hearing. In ODAR we all get that you have 90% of the Judges, a Union and management whom, it is safe to say, would like the see all of you hearing officers. Many, like woody see the endless demands for greater output and the lip service paid to quality as part of a process to short change the hearing process and over burden the Judge. It is ultimately the Judge's responsibility to ensure that the Claimant gets a fair shake. From where I sit I have yet to hear that any Judge, newbie or veteran can't do that. All of the Judges I know keep this responsibility in the forefront of their minds. I hear woody and bartleby--we all do and I think its safe to say that most of those on this Board who want to be Judges feel as though they would like to put their shoulder to the wheel of progress to these simple goals. Likewise, Judge Frye and AALJ beleive in this as I have seen them in action from our forum. I get that ALJD and other Judges on this Board can't stand how AALJ conduct their business. So what? We're lawyers and now Judges--case law is rife with opposing views. That is our bedrock. Maybe a lawsuit is the way to go, maybe not. I have to weigh in with ALJD on this one. I don't agree with what he/she did with two cents and whomever else this now banned poster is/was, but heck it is his post. I would have voted for a week suspenstion though. LIke orly I wish I had weighed in on the fun, but now its after the fact. Oh well... In closing I think I will recommend what REALLY matters: our indedepence and how little The United States Circuit Court for the District of Columbia Circuit thinks of Judge Mahoney (an ALJ with guts and determination) and how precious our independence is. Don't take it for granted. www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/B1E0A6BBFC2333B985257B98004F01F6/$file/12-5016-1444038.pdfI believe ALJD only banned the alter ego. There's no need for a second user name on this board, unless you want to be openly antagonistic towards others. I echo the sentiments of others on this thread that there is certainly room for all viewpoints, and candidates need to go into the process with as much information as possible, both positive and negative.
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tom
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by tom on Feb 23, 2014 17:06:01 GMT -5
First, I agree generally that the largest single factor is the size of the file. But some of the post from mytwocentsworth just doesn't sound right. For starters, Asst US Attys generally don't write district court briefs in Soc Sec cases. Asst Reg Cnsl write the briefs. And I doubt very many attorneys spend 8-10 hours just reading medical records (even 1000 pages) before the hearing. I have a legal assistant who weeds out the garbage and the duplicates and at least tell me what each report is (MRI, office visit, etc). I can reduce my time significantly that way. Also, in fed court, the OGC attys have several advantages, including the prior ALJ decision that should include a lot of the medical evidence and rationale and the substantial evidence standard. Also, Chenery ostensibly limits their ability to come up with new arguments. They don't need to spend a whole lot of time on briefs. I have heard they do have high production goals or quotas, but am not sure just what they are. I have represented disabled claimants for 20+ years.
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Post by notyet on Feb 23, 2014 17:27:33 GMT -5
First, I agree generally that the largest single factor is the size of the file. But some of the post from mytwocentsworth just doesn't sound right. For starters, Asst US Attys generally don't write district court briefs in Soc Sec cases. Asst Reg Cnsl write the briefs. And I doubt very many attorneys spend 8-10 hours just reading medical records (even 1000 pages) before the hearing. I have a legal assistant who weeds out the garbage and the duplicates and at least tell me what each report is (MRI, office visit, etc). I can reduce my time significantly that way. Also, in fed court, the OGC attys have several advantages, including the prior ALJ decision that should include a lot of the medical evidence and rationale and the substantial evidence standard. Also, Chenery ostensibly limits their ability to come up with new arguments. They don't need to spend a whole lot of time on briefs. I have heard they do have high production goals or quotas, but am not sure just what they are. I have represented disabled claimants for 20+ years.
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Post by privateatty on Feb 23, 2014 17:37:59 GMT -5
Really, banning me as a flamer. I have not banned your "notyet" account and will not do so unless you start acting uncivil again. Please behave yourself if you want to participate. The "mytwocent" account will stay banned since we don't need a Batman here... Ah-ha! I guess I'm a bit slow on the uptake. Another reason for banning two identities--encourages us schizophrenics.
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Post by notyet on Feb 23, 2014 17:44:51 GMT -5
I have a bit more time than you specializing in this arena. the colleague I referred to has successfully argued cases before the supremes in the 50 plus years he has specialized in this arena. Perhaps, not, he prepares too much prosecuting claims in the region he practices in.
anyway, I like your post. I wish I had the resources you have when I prosecuted cases before OHA ALJs.
As I try to remember my prior life, I do not think I ever dealt directly with OGC attorneys except for government directed remands. However, even in those cases, I believe I dealt directly with the two or three assistant US. Attorneys in my district responsible for SSA appeals. As I remember, the OGC work product was only a draft in the eyes of the US attorneys I speak of
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 9:28:51 GMT -5
May I add something that has been ignored or overlooked? I truly think one of the biggest assets a Judge can have is extreme typing skills. I do not. I have taken typing classes and just don't improve. I could never learn Morse code either. Whether there is a connection between the two or not I don't know, but suspect there is as I have spent money and effort on both and it doesn't happen. That said, someone with 90 words a minute typing skill that can type while listening to testimony has a real advantage over someone who can't. One of the new ALJ tools, eBB, electronic Bench Book, is designed with the typist in mind. If done properly, one can do their prehearing notes in eBB, type in information during the hearing and it will then import a lot of your information into the instructional portion. The goal of the program is to ultimately generate a simple decision. What impact this will have on the writers is unclear. Unfortunately, typing well has never been a requirement for this position and really should be for one to be ultimately successful. I absolutely agree, and wish my typing was better. I just can't type and conduct a hearing at the same time, so I take handwritten notes the best I can. Also, I really think the claimants appreciate it if you make eye contact and smile occasionally. Calms things down. Hard to do while typing furiously. I suggested that ALJ training needed a "Microsoft Word for ALJ Dummies" class. If allowed to teach it, two things I would touch on... (This may be very old hat for some of you, but I am surprised how many ALJ's don't know you can do this...) 1. Auto Correct: From Word, select File - Options - Proofing - Auto Correct Options. Create a new entry called "Light:", with an auto replace of "Lifting 10 lbs. occasionally, 20 lbs. frequently, stand/walk 6 hours out of 8, sit for 6 hours out of 8." Now, every time you type "Light:" you get the full definition of light work. Create entries for all levels of work, and mental disabilities. Auto correct won't work in FIT. So, place minimal entries in FIT, and when FIT transforms your instructions into a Word document, go back and auto correct. Saves time! 2. Auto Text: You will need to type the text you want to save, and then highlight it. Select Insert - Quick Parts - Auto Text. You should see an option to add your highlighted text to a "quick parts gallery" 3. You can search any Word document by pressing "Control F". A dialogue box will appear allowing you to search for a particular word. Too bad we don't have that feature in DGS/CPMS (that I know of). Occasionally handy.
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Post by valkyrie on Feb 24, 2014 10:15:45 GMT -5
Two things. First, I'd just like to point out that, in addition to my mastery of all major aspects of the ALJ gig, I can burn up the keyboard with just my index fingers and an occasional pinky! Second, everyone on this board, including Yours Truly, is a whiner, has a narcissistic personality disorder, delusions of grandeur, a gambling addiction, or is cliniccally bored, or some sort of combination of all of the above.
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Post by sealaw90 on Feb 24, 2014 10:40:55 GMT -5
Two things. First, I'd just like to point out that, in addition to my mastery of all major aspects of the ALJ gig, I can burn up the keyboard with just my index fingers and an occasional pinky! Second, everyone on this board, including Yours Truly, is a whiner, has a narcissistic personality disorder, delusions of grandeur, a gambling addiction, or is cliniccally bored, or some sort of combination of all of the above. I'll add the possibility of being a drinker and/or smoker (DON'T start a thread on that AGAIN) to the 'some combination of all of the above'
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