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Post by privateatty on Mar 24, 2014 10:41:18 GMT -5
There is no doubt that, in this game, gal is the single biggest factor one can completely control. Maybe the only factor one can "completely" control. Yet, if one saw the posting on usajobs and wasn't an insider with odar, or another agency that uses aljs and didn't follow this board, it is extremely easy to miss out on the importance of gal selection. The job posting gives the impression that multiple agencies will be hiring. No mention is made that ssa has over 90% of all aljs, or that the vast majority of alj using agencies don't hire from the register or that those agencies don't have many offices outside DC and a couple other cities. The stark truth that most folks will end up at odar is easily missed. Further, saying there are "one or more openings in" and giving a list of 180 cities is misleading. It lulls one into believing they can be considered for at least one position in SF, Miami, DC etc, when its highly unlikely there would ever be an opening in those popular places that is filled by a new hire. Add to that the fact that those with no insider knowledge and who had never seen the board probably didn't understand the gal they selected could not be expanded and its definitely recipe for confusion and bad choices. The simple truth is, the wider the gal the more chances you have of making the cert and getting a job. Remember, when you applied you weren't applying for "an" alj job. You were applying for several, at least one in every city on your gal that has an opening. The more cities, the more chances. But, those that gave narrow gals, places they knew would make them and their family happy, may well have played the game the right way. A wide open gal means you would take the job anywhere. Really? Would you really pack up your family, sell your home and move across the country to some small town you never heard of for a job? A job you may hate? That's a personal decision. In my situation, as an insider, I pretty much know what the job entails. My family situation and spouse's career allow for the move and we are somewhat accustomed to such. But my situation is probably rare. Once, many, especially insiders that knew the system, gamed the gal by picking everywhere to increase their chances. They would then strike undesirable cities once they made a cert. I'm not sure the impact of the new opm cert procedure, but individual city certs would seem to make that more difficult. Often, those with wide gals have a plan to take whatever city they are lucky enough to get offered then plan on being able to transfer to some more desirable place. Many playing that strategy my be disappointed. All indications are transfers will be much less frequent and guaranteed in the future. They only work the transfer list when they do a hire and hiring is nowhere near as frequent or in the quatities it once was. So those that chose narrow gals may be down about it now, feeling suckered and as if they don't have a real shot even after doing great on the testing. But, if you knew when you chose your gal you wouldn't want to move to Valparaiso for the job, what's changed now? Is it just being caught up in the game and not wanting to "lose"? Perhaps its better to change perspective and ask yourself if "winning" a job somewhere you wouldn't want to reside is "winning" at all. Just my opinion Putting aside those (sadly) who were/are ignorant about how this game is played (me and many others before we found this Board), it all boils down to how badly you want this job? I would have gone anywhere for this job--but never got the choice I thought I would. More than a couple of ALJs from ODAR here took a city that they didn't want and are now home or very close thereto. That so many don't want to leave home just means that they are not as desirous as others. I rather think your relative hunger for the job will show through at your interview...
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Post by luckylady2 on Mar 24, 2014 10:52:55 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat as ok1956 - started lurking on the board in mid-process - before the DC exams. I knew a fair bit about the ALJ thing before - and wanted to apply earlier, but not being a DC or SSA insider missed the very narrow windows. This board, however, has been so very helpful with generous sharing of information and consoling as the whole thing drags out and it moves along at the Speed of Government.
I was also very aware from the get-go that you have to start at SSA, basically. I have a VERY narrow gal - because, realistically, there are very few offices that could work for me with my current family situation/responsibilities. I also have a decent but middlin' NOR. The only saving grace is that my GAL IS the Greater Crapland-East Crapland area, and I would be delighted to get to work as an SSA ALJ there.
So I'm just watching and waiting. I would be delighted to get on the first cert, but know my chances are better for the second one. I'm just hoping that folks start striking the Greater Crapland-East Crapland area from their gal's so I get a decent chance of a job I'd really like to do in a place I'd really like to be.
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Post by FlaTreeFarm on Mar 24, 2014 10:56:37 GMT -5
Funky, you are wise and circumspect, which makes your posts well worth the read. You will be an excellent judge.
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Post by BagLady on Mar 24, 2014 10:58:07 GMT -5
Putting aside those (sadly) who were/are ignorant about how this game is played (me and many others before we found this Board), it all boils down to how badly you want this job? I would have gone anywhere for this job--but never got the choice I thought I would. More than a couple of ALJs from ODAR here took a city that they didn't want and are now home or very close thereto. That so many don't want to leave home just means that they are not as desirous as others. I rather think your relative hunger for the job will show through at your interview... I completely disagree with the idea that size of GAL determines how badly one wants the job. Many people simply do not have the freedom to move anywhere for a job. Applicants for this position come from a wide range of ages and experiences. Some haven't started their families yet, some have children in school, and some are taking care of their elderly parents. The reasons for a limited GAL are personal to the applicant, not indicative of desire. Quite frankly, there are actually applicants out there that don't think of this as a game to be played, but rather a life choice that affects many other people besides themselves.
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jmgjr
Full Member
Posts: 57
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Post by jmgjr on Mar 24, 2014 11:05:21 GMT -5
Privateatty, you wrote"I rather think your relative hunger for the job......". You are correct, the process sometimes seems a bit like the "Hunger games".
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Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 24, 2014 11:06:10 GMT -5
The simple truth is, the wider the gal the more chances you have of making the cert and getting a job. A wide open gal means you would take the job anywhere. Really? Would you really pack up your family, sell your home and move across the country to some small town you never heard of for a job? Really. My kids are grown. Mrs. Midnight thinks getting posted in Anchorage means she gets a fur coat. She keeps asking, "Can we really go far, far away from the kids for a little while?" So, in an usual turn of how events normally workout, it could be win-win-win for Ace. Practically unheard of.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 24, 2014 11:07:19 GMT -5
Funky, you are wise and circumspect, which makes your posts well worth the read. You will be an excellent judge. Thanks FTF. I wish you worked for opm
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Post by mch135 on Mar 24, 2014 11:55:52 GMT -5
I too found out after applying just how important the GAL is. I understand the reasoning behind requiring a GAL before a cert, but given that a year passed between application and the NOR, I think a better process would be to have you select your GAL once you make the register, not when you apply.
And really when you think about it, since applicants are permitted to strike cities, doesn't that kind of negate the need for a GAL? In theory a cert could be pulled simply based on scores and then let people strike.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 24, 2014 11:56:58 GMT -5
Putting aside those (sadly) who were/are ignorant about how this game is played (me and many others before we found this Board), it all boils down to how badly you want this job? I would have gone anywhere for this job--but never got the choice I thought I would. More than a couple of ALJs from ODAR here took a city that they didn't want and are now home or very close thereto. That so many don't want to leave home just means that they are not as desirous as others. I rather think your relative hunger for the job will show through at your interview... I completely disagree with the idea that size of GAL determines how badly one wants the job. Many people simply do not have the freedom to move anywhere for a job. Applicants for this position come from a wide range of ages and experiences. Some haven't started their families yet, some have children in school, and some are taking care of their elderly parents. The reasons for a limited GAL are personal to the applicant, not indicative of desire. Quite frankly, there are actually applicants out there that don't think of this as a game to be played, but rather a life choice that affects many other people besides themselves. I guess its how you look at life. My job comes first. All else flows from that.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 24, 2014 12:14:50 GMT -5
I too found out after applying just how important the GAL is. I understand the reasoning behind requiring a GAL before a cert, but given that a year passed between application and the NOR, I think a better process would be to have you select your GAL once you make the register, not when you apply. And really when you think about it, since applicants are permitted to strike cities, doesn't that kind of negate the need for a GAL? In theory a cert could be pulled simply based on scores and then let people strike. Remember that the GAL is not a concept unique to the ALJ application/register. It is part of the application for ANY federal job which exists in multiple cities, including those for which the register is created much more quickly. The GAL comes at the same stage of the process for all.
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Post by surfdude on Mar 24, 2014 12:59:04 GMT -5
Fully agree with mch135! Maybe they'll open up everyone's ability to redo their GALs after the initial city-by-city certs, which we are expecting based on the leaked OPM email.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 24, 2014 13:31:08 GMT -5
Fully agree with mch135! Maybe they'll open up everyone's ability to redo their GALs after the initial city-by-city certs, which we are expecting based on the leaked OPM email. Don't bet on it... not that soon.
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Post by surfdude on Mar 24, 2014 13:39:15 GMT -5
We'll see. Looks like uncharted territory here.
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Post by moopigsdad on Mar 24, 2014 14:32:06 GMT -5
Fully agree with mch135! Maybe they'll open up everyone's ability to redo their GALs after the initial city-by-city certs, which we are expecting based on the leaked OPM email. The scenario you describe is only likely to occur if SSA tells OPM there aren't enough qualified candidates for it's requested cert. or OPM comes to that conclusion on its own. With a brand new register, this is not likely to occur for more than two years or sometime possibly in 2016 or later. Sorry, but it never hurts to have hope. I wish you luck in qualifying with your present GAL.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 24, 2014 14:33:44 GMT -5
Fully agree with mch135! Maybe they'll open up everyone's ability to redo their GALs after the initial city-by-city certs, which we are expecting based on the leaked OPM email. Don't bet on it... not that soon. 1. Until further notice, I think we are reading too much into that "leaked" email. Kind of like the whole "scale" and "ranking" discussions related to the scores. 2. A radical departure from past practices may happen. At this point, we would be basing that on relatively inexpert analysis of awkward language from what may or may not be a part of an email that was sent to someone who may or may not be part of the hiring authority for new ALJs at ODAR, from the ALJ team at OPM. While we are, again, in an operational pause between events outside of our control - this kind of wild speculation is useful only to kill time. I would hate for it to offer hope for people who have stumbled upon this forum and into this process relatively ignorant to those past practices. I would rather they end up pleasantly surprised if it works out, rather than disappointed if it is 2017 before such a refresh is offered. Just my $0.02.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 24, 2014 14:48:44 GMT -5
Not for anything, but tomorrow is the 12th day since the NORs came out. Cert notices went out 12 days after the NORs in 2010. Looking for balance and consistency in the universe....
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 24, 2014 15:24:25 GMT -5
Something else I would add in reference to the thought that ODAR cares about getting to as many high scorers as they can... while scores are important in that they'll get you on a cert provided you have the right GAL, I don't believe ODAR cares about them one bit. In fact, if you score a 110 on the exam but never make a cert because NYC is your only available office, ODAR will never know that a 110 scorer existed. In my opinion, they likely view scores in the same light that law firms might view bar exam scores in that they don't necessarily think the higher the score, the better the candidate. Candidates are generally fungible, and the important part now is that SSA (or whatever hiring agency requests a cert) likes you and thinks you can produce. Obviously that's where the interview and references come in.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 24, 2014 15:30:29 GMT -5
I added a simple gal poll that can fuel speculation on how many may want the city you want.
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 24, 2014 15:30:45 GMT -5
Not for anything, but tomorrow is the 12th day since the NORs came out. Cert notices went out 12 days after the NORs in 2010. Looking for balance and consistency in the universe.... Here's something I thought I'd never see... observer participating in a little speculative tea-leaf reading.
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Post by crab on Mar 24, 2014 15:31:41 GMT -5
Not for anything, but tomorrow is the 12th day since the NORs came out. Cert notices went out 12 days after the NORs in 2010. Looking for balance and consistency in the universe.... And it's a Tuesday ... Tuesdays are very good for this sort of thing!
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