Locality pay: let's get specific

[sandiferhands (old)]

My last thread was apparently unclear, so I'll try again:

How can one determine precisely which offices offer locality pay (LP) and which do not? I am aware of the LP salary list, but it is ambiguous:

1. The LP listing for "Los Angeles - Long Beach - Riverside, CA": Does this mean that only an ODAR office in the NAMED locations gets LP? or do ALL ODAR offices in that geographic area get LP? So, e.g., does Orange, CA get LP?

AND if, as I presume, only the specifically named offices get LP, then

2. How do we determine which offices get LP in this area: "Washington - Baltimore - Northern Virginia -DC, MD, VA, WV, PA" ??
    Where can we find out just what is considered "Northern" Virginia? Which offices, if any, in West VA. and Pennsylvania get LP?

If anyone can post an answer or preferably a link to definitely clarify this I'd appreciate it.

[BagLady]

Try this:

www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2014/locality-pay-area-definitions/#content

[hopefalj]

Edit: I always seem to be a minute or two behind people. Thanks, BL.

[agilitymom]

If you go out to the "locality pay definition tables" it will give you the counties in each area that are covered by the specific locality pay percentage. If the city you are looking for isn't in a county listed under the state then the RUS (Rest of US) rate applies. You can find the tables here: www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2014/locality-pay-area-definitions/

Example: The higher rate for WV only applies to Berkeley Co., Hampshire Co., Jefferson Co., and Morgan Co. So if the office you are looking at is in one of the counties the rate for "Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA" applies. Otherwise, if you are looking at an office like Morgantown (which is in Monongahela County) the RUS rate applies.

[sandiferhands (old)]

Ahh, that page was what I was looking for. Thanks guys.

[funkyodar]

Apr 14, 2014 11:36:25 GMT -5 agilitymom said:

If the city you are looking for isn't in a county listed under the state then the RUS (Rest of US) rate applies.

And if your duty station is the fire swamp, the ROUS applies.

[privateatty]

And after seven years everyone's pay tops out. With wise investments both Roth and TSP, catchup contributions where applicable and maxing on the agency constributions to TSP one can do quite well in Crapland-or even outside of it.

[crab]

Apr 14, 2014 17:06:25 GMT -5 privateatty said:

And after seven years everyone's pay tops out. With wise investments both Roth and TSP, catchup contributions where applicable and maxing on the agency constributions to TSP one can do quite well in Crapland-or even outside of it.

Yup, there could be a couple lean years out of the gate for some current feds depending on current and prospective locations, and whether families can move right away, but it'll all even out in the wash eventually I suspect.

[moopigsdad]

Apr 14, 2014 17:06:25 GMT -5 privateatty said:

And after seven years everyone's pay tops out. With wise investments both Roth and TSP, catchup contributions where applicable and maxing on the agency contributions to TSP one can do quite well in Crapland-or even outside of it.

Privateatty it seems according to the pay tables that the Rest of the US (ROUS) tops out at $164,048 starting in your 7th year, while with locality pay (some top out earlier, others later) the ALJs top out at $165,300. This means that unless you are in one of the locality pay areas you will be paid approximately $1250 less a year for doing the same job. Now, if we move on to the management level, then everyone's pay equals out in the end.

Now, you say what difference does the $1,250 make a year. Well, over ten years it is $12,500 more, etc. It is more money one could have put in their TSP or other retirement accounts. Seems nitpicking and it is, but not all is equal for the ALJs after seven years. Also, depending upon the locality some will top out much quicker than seven years, too.

[hopefalj]

Apr 15, 2014 7:59:05 GMT -5 moopigsdad said:

Apr 14, 2014 17:06:25 GMT -5 privateatty said:

And after seven years everyone's pay tops out. With wise investments both Roth and TSP, catchup contributions where applicable and maxing on the agency contributions to TSP one can do quite well in Crapland-or even outside of it.

Privateatty it seems according to the pay tables that the Rest of the US (ROUS) tops out at $164,048 starting in your 7th year, while with locality pay (some top out earlier, others later) the ALJs top out at $165,300. This means that unless you are in one of the locality pay areas you will be paid approximately $1250 less a year for doing the same job. Now, if we move on to the management level, then everyone's pay equals out in the end.

Now, you say what difference does the $1250 make a year. Well, over ten years it is $12,500 more, etc. It is more money one could have put in their TSP or other retirement accounts. Seems nitpicking and it is, but not all is equal for the ALJs after seven years. Also, depending upon the locality some will top out much quicker than seven years, too.

The cap is currently $167,700 after this year's COLA increase. While you are correct in that there is a significant difference over a 10-year period, it's not nearly as significant as the cost of living in one of those higher pay areas. I think $165,646 in Toledo, OH goes a lot farther and allows an ALJ to more easily contribute to the TSP or other retirement plan than $167,700 does in LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, or DC.

[moopigsdad]

Apr 15, 2014 8:07:14 GMT -5 hopefalj said:

Apr 15, 2014 7:59:05 GMT -5 moopigsdad said:

Privateatty it seems according to the pay tables that the Rest of the US (ROUS) tops out at $164,048 starting in your 7th year, while with locality pay (some top out earlier, others later) the ALJs top out at $165,300. This means that unless you are in one of the locality pay areas you will be paid approximately $1250 less a year for doing the same job. Now, if we move on to the management level, then everyone's pay equals out in the end.

Now, you say what difference does the $1250 make a year. Well, over ten years it is $12,500 more, etc. It is more money one could have put in their TSP or other retirement accounts. Seems nitpicking and it is, but not all is equal for the ALJs after seven years. Also, depending upon the locality some will top out much quicker than seven years, too.

The cap is currently $167,700 after this year's COLA increase. While you are correct in that there is a significant difference over a 10-year period, it's not nearly as significant as the cost of living in one of those higher pay areas. I think $165,646 in Toledo, OH goes a lot farther and allows an ALJ to more easily contribute to the TSP or other retirement plan than $167,700 does in LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, or DC.

Hopefalj my error for not taking into consideration the latest bump in pay. I based mine upon the 2012 pay scale. Technically, you are correct that the cost of living in some locations is much higher than in others, I will tell you being a life long Michigan resident, the cost of living in Detroit, Warren and Flint (or the selected counties) is not any higher than the cost of living in the rest of Michigan. I can probably find several areas in Michigan where the cost of living is higher than selected Detroit, Warren and Flint locality, where the pay is higher for those in that locality. I am sure this is true of a lot of other parts of the US with locality pay. Perhaps, locality pay really needs to be updated to look at the real world situation of the cost of living on the East or West Coast.

[hopefalj]

I don't know, mpd. A cost of living calculator told me that $170k in Detroit is the equivalent of $163,500 in Grand Rapids.

Yes, locality pay should probably be readjusted. Interestingly, Houston has one of the highest locality rates in the country despite being a lower cost of living area for a major metro city. I've heard that is related to recruiting for NASA way back when.

[moopigsdad]

Apr 15, 2014 8:18:22 GMT -5 hopefalj said:

I don't know, mpd. A cost of living calculator told me that $170k in Detroit is the equivalent of $163,500 in Grand Rapids.

Yes, locality pay should probably be readjusted. Interestingly, Houston has one of the highest locality rates in the country despite being a lower cost of living area for a major metro city. I've heard that is related to recruiting for NASA way back when.

I can buy a house in Detroit for $5,000, but that same (run down) house in Grand Rapids would cost $10,000 at a minimum. Depending upon which calculator you are using and who set up the calculator will make a difference in the COL. Now, I am not going to go back-and-forth with you on the issue hopefalj, but my viewpoint is many of the locality pay areas probably need adjusting along with the pay top-outs for ALJs in certain areas. Of course, this would mean the ALJ in popular East or West Coast areas would be making around $250,000 a year, while everyone else would be at $165,000 a year level. A lot of animosity would build up between ALJs and make issues of pay equity for similar work among ALJs rear it's head. Hence, I guess it might as well stay as it is right now.

[grassgreener]

The locality pay is based more on the average salaries in a region, rather than the cost of living/housing - albeit there may be some correlation in places.

[moopigsdad]

Thanks grassgreener for the information about determination of locality pay.

[Gaidin]

If an ALJ is getting locality pay and moves to an office that has the RoUS pay rate do they go down to the RoUS pay rate? That is I disagreeumption but I wanted to get confirmation.

[moopigsdad]

Gaiden if you searched locality pay on the Board you would find the answer. According to other threads if you move from a locality pay area to a non-locality pay area, you receive the lesser pay. Locality pay is just that, it is paid to those workers who work in those specific locations only, so once you move you are no longer entitled to it. Of course you could transfer from a non-locality pay area or a lower locality pay area to a locality pay area or a higher locality pay area and reap the benefit of a larger salary.

[mamaru]

Yeah, they can update the locality pay after they get done with the DOT and Grid Rules.  Gotta keep up with the times!