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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2014 18:56:08 GMT -5
My current employer has told me they don't want me to go. I am worried they will not return reference call. This is very awkward as I don't have the job yet.
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Post by Missundaztood on May 19, 2014 20:14:00 GMT -5
My current employer has told me they don't want me to go. I am worried they will not return reference call. This is very awkward as I don't have the job yet. Good luck, linky. It seems like choosing references, including whether your current employer can be contacted, can be full of tough decisions. I was most worried about the adversarial references, but they were pretty enthusiastic about helping me. Then because of the no-duplication rule, I couldn't use any of the district court judges I worked for. Bummer! Other judges who had strokes, cancer, retired, etc. Just awful! There is part of me that thinks that if I don't get offered a position, I'll try to FOIA/PA the references' responses (the contractor has to write them down and submit them to SSA, presumably then FOIA-able!) and then give hell to anyone who answers stupidly (if redacted, I will figure out who the offender is! lol!) (one of my former supervisors, an Article III judge said it reminds him of when his references were called for his appointment and the questions included whether he would overthrow the government; he said you can't even joke because they'll write it down). Assuming, of course, I don't just tank the interview myself.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 17:46:04 GMT -5
One of my references (not the one mentioned above) just informed me that he played phone tag with them for about a week, and never connected. Should I contact the contractor now to tell them to keep trying, or make him call them back? I had the same experience. Eventually all my references were able to make contact, but some of my references were pretty exasperated.
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Post by BagLady on May 23, 2014 20:45:50 GMT -5
One of my judges e-mailed me today that he has tried calling back three times, only to be put on hold for 15 minutes before giving up. I thanked him and told him that I believe they will e-mail the questions if his assistant asks the next time they call. Other than that, I'm staying out of it; the contractor should have a procedure in place for this type of thing.
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Post by funkyodar on May 26, 2014 19:31:04 GMT -5
Hope everyone had a great long weekend.
I had hoped to enjoy it and not think on the upcoming interview or this process for a few days, but that wasn't meant to be.
My phone was blown up Saturday by my references. Every one I gave a home or cell # for was called this weekend. I suppose my refs for whom I only had work #s will get calls this week.
Exciting to know things are moving.
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Post by 71stretch on May 27, 2014 7:27:09 GMT -5
One of my references (not the one mentioned above) just informed me that he played phone tag with them for about a week, and never connected. Should I contact the contractor now to tell them to keep trying, or make him call them back? Definitely not. Stay out of the process. They will either make contact, or not. It's not a deal breaker if they don't. Historically, not all references for everyone were contacted the first time around.
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Post by funkyodar on May 27, 2014 12:52:50 GMT -5
A bit of an oddity to ponder. I am a refrence (work history ref) for a fellow candidate. Early this morn, I got the call from a lady. She clearly identified herself and that she was calling for ssa. She asked all the questions that have been reported on here. The call went well and I gave him a high recommendation.
The, a few minutes ago, I got a call from a guy from a different area code. He said he was a "special investigator" doing background checks for federal administrative law judge hiring. No mention of ssa. Then he told me he was calling about my friend. He then asked if I too was a candidate and said he had seen my name on his list. Then he proceeded to ask the exact same questions I had answered for the lady earlier.
So, why the 2 calls? My friend is also on the omha cert and I thought that may explain it. But, if he is just calling omha certers, I wouldn't be on his list. Second, I wasnt on my friends omha ref list or work history as it didn't go back as far as ssa's work history request did.
Think they just screwed up and 2 checkers got my friends name?
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Post by 71stretch on May 27, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5
A bit of an oddity to ponder. I am a refrence (work history ref) for a fellow candidate. Early this morn, I got the call from a lady. She clearly identified herself and that she was calling for ssa. She asked all the questions that have been reported on here. The call went well and I gave him a high recommendation. The, a few minutes ago, I got a call from a guy from a different area code. He said he was a "special investigator" doing background checks for federal administrative law judge hiring. No mention of ssa. Then he told me he was calling about my friend. He then asked if I too was a candidate and said he had seen my name on his list. Then he proceeded to ask the exact same questions I had answered for the lady earlier. So, why the 2 calls? My friend is also on the omha cert and I thought that may explain it. But, if he is just calling omha certers, I wouldn't be on his list. Second, I wasnt on my friends omha ref list or work history as it didn't go back as far as ssa's work history request did. Think they just screwed up and 2 checkers got my friends name? Probably. I hope they got the same answers. Reminds me of the time I interviewed for a State ALJ job with two different departments within the same agency, representing different levels of appeal. The lower level appeal department went first, with a panel. I was asked a series of questions, answered them, and went on my way. A week or two later, I interviewed with the board chairman at the higher level appeal department. Same questions, exactly. About halfway through, it dawned on him, as he knew I was on both lists. He said, with a chuckle, "These are the same questions you were asked before, aren't they?" I said, "Yes, they are. But if it makes you feel better, I'm giving you the same answers I gave them." He laughed.... and hired me a few days later. I learned later that the head of the other department, who had been on the interview panel, had called him and told him that he could not hire me, as he had a seasonal ALJ on the list that the rules basically required him to hire, but said, "if I can't hire her, you better!".
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Post by moopigsdad on May 27, 2014 13:39:49 GMT -5
A bit of an oddity to ponder. I am a refrence (work history ref) for a fellow candidate. Early this morn, I got the call from a lady. She clearly identified herself and that she was calling for ssa. She asked all the questions that have been reported on here. The call went well and I gave him a high recommendation. The, a few minutes ago, I got a call from a guy from a different area code. He said he was a "special investigator" doing background checks for federal administrative law judge hiring. No mention of ssa. Then he told me he was calling about my friend. He then asked if I too was a candidate and said he had seen my name on his list. Then he proceeded to ask the exact same questions I had answered for the lady earlier. So, why the 2 calls? My friend is also on the omha cert and I thought that may explain it. But, if he is just calling omha certers, I wouldn't be on his list. Second, I wasnt on my friends omha ref list or work history as it didn't go back as far as ssa's work history request did. Think they just screwed up and 2 checkers got my friends name? This is very interesting funky. Especially, since the two people you spoke to identified themselves differently. The first said she was from SSA, but didn't say it involved ALJ positions and the second stated he was a "special investigator" doing background checks for ALJ hiring. It's a shame you didn't question the second as to why you were being called a second time on the same individual with the same questions. Either there was a mix-up and more than one person was sent your information for a background check or perhaps the first inquisitor wasn't for an ALJ position. Is it possible this person applied for another position at SSA? However, why would the questions be the same ones asked for ALJ candidates. It is a real quandary funky and we may never know why there were two calls for the same individual's background check.
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Post by funkyodar on May 27, 2014 13:49:18 GMT -5
Definitely odd. I just confirmed with my friend that he did indeed put me as a ref for omha as well as ssa. So, I suppose the second call could have been for omha. But the questions were exactly the same, even the one about doing 500 to 700 a year. And the guy specifically mentioned that he saw me on his candidates list, and i'm not on omha. I dunno. Guess it was just a screw up. I should have mentioned the earlier call to him. But the way he id'd himself, I first thought it was part of the background check instead of the ref check. Then I thought it must be omha (not realizing the holes in that theory till after the call.) Oh well, I at least gave the same answers.
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Post by hopefalj on May 27, 2014 13:55:48 GMT -5
Definitely odd. I just confirmed with my friend that he did indeed put me as a ref for omha as well as ssa. So, I suppose the second call could have been for omha. But the questions were exactly the same, even the one about doing 500 to 700 a year. And the guy specifically mentioned that he saw me on his candidates list, and i'm not on omha. I dunno. Guess it was just a screw up. I should have mentioned the earlier call to him. But the way he id'd himself, I first thought it was part of the background check instead of the ref check. Then I thought it must be omha (not realizing the holes in that theory till after the call.) Oh well, I at least gave the same answers. It's possible that OMHA and SSA use the same outside contractor for reference checks, and your second caller could have your friend's OMHA references and your SSA references. Given the backlog at OMHA, it wouldn't be all too surprising if they start focusing on production and borrowed SSA's questions, either. Or it could just be a screw up.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 27, 2014 13:57:48 GMT -5
Definitely odd. I just confirmed with my friend that he did indeed put me as a ref for omha as well as ssa. So, I suppose the second call could have been for omha. But the questions were exactly the same, even the one about doing 500 to 700 a year. And the guy specifically mentioned that he saw me on his candidates list, and i'm not on omha. I dunno. Guess it was just a screw up. I should have mentioned the earlier call to him. But the way he id'd himself, I first thought it was part of the background check instead of the ref check. Then I thought it must be omha (not realizing the holes in that theory till after the call.) Oh well, I at least gave the same answers. Did you have your answers written out ahead of time, so they would be given exactly the same? Were your answers similar in nature, but the use of certain "terms of art" may have been slightly different due to the answers not being written out ahead of time? Most of us, even if we try to tell the same story or give exactly the same answer usually give a slightly different story or answer the second or subsequent time we tell it. Just curious on how you did it.
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Post by funkyodar on May 27, 2014 14:10:33 GMT -5
Pretty easy really. As I realized he was asking the same questions, I remembered what I told the lady 2 hours earlier. Surely there was a term or two different, but I gave essentially the same responses in, I bet, pretty close to the same words.
Its not that hard. Not too many questions.
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Post by dudeabides on May 27, 2014 14:14:25 GMT -5
Another theory:
Maybe SSA has a system to identify when one ALJ candidate is serving as a reference for another Or "worse" [horrors] two ALJ candidates are serving as references for each other. Or Three candidates doing a round-robin?
They may want to double-check to avoid a little quid pro quo going on in the great reference department. Is SSA that smart?
I certainly do NOT suggest that Funk would be involved in such a thing. Just that SSA might have such a system in place to double-check a candidate serving as a reference for another candidate?
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Post by funkyodar on May 27, 2014 14:19:44 GMT -5
That could be a possibility. But in thus case its kind of unavoidable. They wanted 15 years if work history. That included a 3 year history when this other candidate and I were partners in a law firm. The only partners. So no choice but to list each other.
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Post by dudeabides on May 27, 2014 14:24:03 GMT -5
Makes sense. Indeed, you had no other choice. Yet when two candidates are refs for each other, you can see how it might trigger a red flag.
Best of luck!
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Post by moopigsdad on May 27, 2014 15:23:21 GMT -5
Did you have your answers written out ahead of time, so they would be given exactly the same? Were your answers similar in nature, but the use of certain "terms of art" may have been slightly different due to the answers not being written out ahead of time? Most of us, even if we try to tell the same story or give exactly the same answer usually give a slightly different story or answer the second or subsequent time we tell it. Just curious on how you did it. I don't follow this. Why would it be important for him to use certain "terms of art," and get them the exact same on two phone calls? Funky stated in a post "Oh well, I at least gave the same answers." So, my question was how did he know he gave the same answers? If one person calls me with questions and I answer them and another person calls me three hours later with the exact same questions, how likely is it to be the same answers? The gist of the answers may be the same, but the wording was likely different. It's like the witness who observes an event and gives the police his statement. When asked about it again two weeks later. the statement has changed. Further, when asked about the same event six months later at trial the statement is different from the other two statements already given. Memories fade as time passes. I don't know, I guess I was just trying to make the point that the answers probably differed between the two people asking the same questions hours apart. In the totality of circumstances, it makes no real difference, but it was just a technical point devildog. My somewhat inane craziness on trying to make a point about answers differing, despite trying to make them "exactly" the same. Sorry for any confusion or consternation I may have caused.
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Post by 71stretch on May 27, 2014 19:42:24 GMT -5
I understand. If the reference-checkers are looking for specific "terms of art" then my references are woefully unprepared. I honestly don't think they are looking for specific terms of art. It's not like the "government speak" we've historically had to use describing our work experience to OPM in ARs or Experience Assessments, etc. They are looking for certain general concepts, but not specific words or phrases.
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Post by chessparent on Oct 31, 2014 8:16:51 GMT -5
I thought this thread might be helpful to our newby scoobies. Bump
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Post by luckylady2 on Oct 31, 2014 9:22:33 GMT -5
Good idea - I was just thinking that I'd need to find this thread if the magic email comes. It's been awhile since I've talked to some of the folks I'd use, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to say hi to all of them this weekend.
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