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Post by bartleby on May 8, 2014 20:19:46 GMT -5
In case you haven't read the first thousand posts I have placed here. This Agency does not like or respect lawyers or Judges. This has been going on since the 70's and is documented in Borowick's book, "An Agency at War With Itself". The Agency's lack of respect rubs off on and is reflected by some management. Not all are like this, but enough are. If the Agency has it's way they will be using Hearing Officers that they can hire and manage from day one instead of Judges. If you don't believe it then why would any Agency hire high school graduate employees and place them as "paralegals" making the same pay as attorneys? Does that make sense to anybody? It is what it is. Flame suit on.
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Post by ed on May 8, 2014 20:20:17 GMT -5
Choices:
A. Scream at the GS and berate him/her in front of everyone for interrupting your hearing;
B. Ignore the GS and continue your hearing as if she/he was not even in the room;
C. Take a poll of the persons in attendance and determine the best approach for resolving the case that the GS is asking you to move from an old status;
D. None of the above.
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Post by ed on May 8, 2014 20:26:31 GMT -5
And totally unrelated but Johnny football has had two of his team mates drafted ahead of him.
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Post by jerseymom on May 8, 2014 20:34:15 GMT -5
Really?? How many ALJ's have been hired in the last 5 years? Also, there are some really talented paralegals out there and sadly some attorneys who can't write.
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 20:39:16 GMT -5
I can say without doubt that such an incident would never happen in my hearing office.
Now, if it did, the proper move for the judge would be to politely ask the GS to leave the hearing room and then, after the hearing, report the GS to your Hocalj and Hod and ask for the GS to be counseled or reprimanded.
You follow the chain of command. And unfortunately you aren't in it. Some are going to be severely distraught when they actually don a robe for odar. You, as a line Alj, have no supervisory status. You have no "staff," no secretary, no assistant. You are on the same level in the chain as everyone else in the office.
No matter what a GS, a writer or case tech does, you go all FIrst Sarge on them and its just as likely to be you that has the mountain of leadership come crashing down on them as the original offender.
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Post by WhereIsTheFrontDoor on May 8, 2014 21:01:23 GMT -5
That's definitely a reasonable response.
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Post by chessparent on May 8, 2014 21:05:57 GMT -5
Just this week, I have had a prosecutor scream at me in a courtroom full of people because of his incorrect assumption; a client tell me to go f-myself and that he hopes I die before the next time we have court together (and he was one of the nicer clients); and a judge threaten me in the middle of a punishment argument that he was about to make me sit down if I continued the same path on my argument. So yes, on weeks like this I think there's not much that could convince me not to take that job if that's the worst you got. Oh man, I remember those weeks. Thanks for reminding me why I got out
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 21:11:27 GMT -5
I can say without doubt that such an incident would never happen in my hearing office. Now, if it did, the proper move for the judge would be to politely ask the GS to leave the hearing room and then, after the hearing, report the GS to your Hocalj and Hod and ask for the GS to be counseled or reprimanded. You follow the chain of command. And unfortunately you aren't in it. Some are going to be severely distraught when they actually don a robe for odar. You, as a line Alj, have no supervisory status. You have no "staff," no secretary, no assistant. You are on the same level in the chain as everyone else in the office. No matter what a GS, a writer or case tech does, you go all FIrst Sarge on them and its just as likely to be you that has the mountain of leadership come crashing down on them as the original offender. Why anyone would be walking into a middle of a hearing to discuss anything except the subject of that hearing is beyond ME. I don't know all of the funky ODAR things going on, but I hear you Funky.... but leadership is called leadership for a f**** reason.
I may not make it to the mountain top and you and all of the others can ignore all of which I speak, but there will be only once, ONCE, that some Senior Attorney/Case Tech/ GS walks into a hearing that has nothing to do with the hearing to discuss with ME anything that does not pertain to the hearing at HAND!!!
I'm not an insider, but I am as about as close as you can get to an insider without practicing SSA law.
If I get the privilege to become an ALJ, then I will be one of the best ALJ. Not the #1, but in the top 20 percent of the all ALJs in the 2014 class. IMHO.
I don't doubt you will work incredibly hard and I sincerely hope if you land at odar you are indeed one of the best. Just remember, you keep talking about leadership but no one is asking you to be a leader of anyone. You are being considered for a position as a gear in the machine, not the machine operator. And threatening to kill a fellow employee, I bet, would lead to perhaps the shortest alj career in history.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 21:22:09 GMT -5
Why anyone would be walking into a middle of a hearing to discuss anything except the subject of that hearing is beyond ME. I don't know all of the funky ODAR things going on, but I hear you Funky.... but leadership is called leadership for a f**** reason.
I may not make it to the mountain top and you and all of the others can ignore all of which I speak, but there will be only once, ONCE, that some Senior Attorney/Case Tech/ GS walks into a hearing that has nothing to do with the hearing to discuss with ME anything that does not pertain to the hearing at HAND!!!
I'm not an insider, but I am as about as close as you can get to an insider without practicing SSA law.
If I get the privilege to become an ALJ, then I will be one of the best ALJ. Not the #1, but in the top 20 percent of the all ALJs in the 2014 class. IMHO.
I don't doubt you will work incredibly hard and I sincerely hope if you land at odar you are indeed one of the best. Just remember, you keep talking about leadership but no one is asking you to be a leader of anyone. You are being considered for a position as a gear in the machine, not the machine operator. And threatening to kill a fellow employee, I bet, would lead to perhaps the shortest alj career in history. OK Funky, when did I threated to kill anyone?
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 21:27:21 GMT -5
Choices: I would not scream at anyone, but I would step outside of the hearing room and tell that person that you will NEVER interrupt a on the record hearing AGAIN, unless you wish to DIE that day. Girls and Guys, it's called leadership FOR A REASON. Right. About. There.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 21:28:06 GMT -5
I can say without doubt that such an incident would never happen in my hearing office. Now, if it did, the proper move for the judge would be to politely ask the GS to leave the hearing room and then, after the hearing, report the GS to your Hocalj and Hod and ask for the GS to be counseled or reprimanded. You follow the chain of command. And unfortunately you aren't in it. Some are going to be severely distraught when they actually don a robe for odar. You, as a line Alj, have no supervisory status. You have no "staff," no secretary, no assistant. You are on the same level in the chain as everyone else in the office. No matter what a GS, a writer or case tech does, you go all FIrst Sarge on them and its just as likely to be you that has the mountain of leadership come crashing down on them as the original offender. Why anyone would be walking into a middle of a hearing to discuss anything except the subject of that hearing is beyond ME. I don't know all of the funky ODAR things going on, but I hear you Funky.... but leadership is called leadership for a f**** reason.
I may not make it to the mountain top and you and all of the others can ignore all of which I speak, but there will be only once, ONCE, that some Senior Attorney/Case Tech/ GS walks into a hearing that has nothing to do with the hearing to discuss with ME anything that does not pertain to the hearing at HAND!!!
I'm not an insider, but I am as about as close as you can get to an insider without practicing SSA law.
If I get the privilege to become an ALJ, then I will be one of the best ALJ. Not the #1, but in the top 20 percent of the all ALJs in the 2014 class. IMHO.
Tigerlaw you know I respect other people's opinions, but be careful not to trip over your ego and remember sometimes a little humility can be a good thing. There is nothing wrong with having confidence, but being a braggadocious person usually gets you nowhere.
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 21:32:49 GMT -5
OK Funky, when did I threated to kill anyone? And oh my the way, I have read a ton of MSRP decision....You really have to do more than kill somebody before you lose your JOB. You celebrating tonite Tiger? Just remember, be careful mixing alcohol with lithium.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 21:40:50 GMT -5
OK Funky, when did I threated to kill anyone? And oh my the way, I have read a ton of MSRP decision....You really have to do more than kill somebody before you lose your JOB. Tiger I am assuming you meant the MSPB decisions, not MSRP, unless you were shopping for vehicles or other items to know their prices.
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Post by mamaru on May 8, 2014 21:50:22 GMT -5
Choices: A. Scream at the GS and berate him/her in front of everyone for interrupting your hearing; B. Ignore the GS and continue your hearing as if she/he was not even in the room; C. Take a poll of the persons in attendance and determine the best approach for resolving the case that the GS is asking you to move from an old status; D. None of the above. Don't forget to indicate the best AND worst answers.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 22:05:35 GMT -5
Tigerlaw you know I respect other people's opinions, but be careful not to trip over your ego and remember sometimes a little humility can be a good thing. There is nothing wrong with having confidence, but being a braggadocious person usually gets you nowhere. I do have an ego, which every GOOD attorney should have (If they do not, they have NO place on this BOARD), but again I hear Funky and you that I am not the Chief ALJ, but somebody has to be in charge in order to accomplish the mission of ODAR.
I do truly wish to get this job, because it sounds like a "good quality of life" gig. I don't wish to chase the almighty $$$ until I am dead. Just about everybody on this board is a government EE wishing to be an ALJ, so give me a break if after 20 years in the US Army and a war zone that I too would like to perform a less intense JOB. I know all of you guys think being an ODAR AJL is the toughest JOB on the planet, but I would LOVE to have that REAL tough JOB. However, I will not leave basic LEADERSHIP skills behind.
Tiger I am an outsider, not a federal employee. I know what it is to run your own practice. I do respect ALJs for their hard work and hope to join the ranks, too. I am just trying to give you some friendly advice, if you truly want to acquire the position.
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 22:16:18 GMT -5
You know what Tiger? I'm done debating you. Its completely useless.
I'm confident that one of four possibilities will occur regarding you, and I would be pleased to see any of them.
One, the wise folks at odar will see your personality for the extremely ill fit for odar that your posts show it to be and never give you the job.
Two, you sucessfully bamboozle them into giving you a job but your abrasive narcissm cant be contained and after enough grievances and complaints you are removed.
Three, you land a gig and very quickly recognize on your own that you made a huge mistake and quit.
Or
Four, after a bit of working as an actual line alj you are finally forced to realize you aren't quite as special or unique as you keep telling yourself and you come to peace with that and actually turn into a good worker bee without so much of a chip on your shoulder.
One or the other will happen.
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Post by dpageks on May 8, 2014 22:18:32 GMT -5
Are you guys really arguing over a hypothetical situation? You are both better than that. Just saying . . .
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 22:28:04 GMT -5
Chill Tigerlaw, chill. Don't ride the train off the rails.
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 22:43:27 GMT -5
Nice. Have a goodnight tiger.
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Post by funkyodar on May 8, 2014 22:51:48 GMT -5
No need to lock it ALJD. Tigers just blowin off some steam. No offense taken or harm done.
No need to pm me tiger. Got nothing else to say to you.
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