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Post by dpageks on May 15, 2014 16:09:35 GMT -5
I'm hoping Beancounter is right too! Although I have a feeling you could knock me out of contention haha. Lol! Thanks for the compliment but I doubt it.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 17:29:54 GMT -5
Having a cert of 270 for 90 spots would not throw out what we know aobut past certs. Rather it would be typical of past certs. Just to be clear, my information doesn't have anything to o with people throwing off cities. Typcially, for a 90 ALJ hire, they would have 270 applicants and that is not what they have this time because of the fact they have to request a cert unique to each city. My info is that when they increased from 3 candidates per city to 5, it really only added a very small number of unique names. My intel is that increasing the number of names per city (from 5) would add more names to the cert and get up to the desired 270 You're basing your reasoning on 5 candidates having been referred for each city. I don't think that's what happened. Look at the "May 2, 2014 ODAR Cert cities" poll. It shows that as to some cities, as many as 37 people report that they were referred. And that's just among the readership of this board. Don't get me wrong ... I really appreciate you posting what you heard! My info is that when ODAR asked for 5 people per city, it yelded less than the desireable amount of candidates for the cert so they have asked for more people. As to the poll, keep in mind that if a person scored high enough to make the cert, it will list all the cities that person had on their gal that are cert cities. The issue is with the number of individuals on the cert not being high enough. And I have been through this roller coaster like all of us and wouldn't have posted if I didn't think the source was credible. I had been prepared for a long wait until I received this info. Of course, like any of the info here, it is not a guarantee |
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Post by robespierre on May 15, 2014 20:33:31 GMT -5
"As to the poll, keep in mind that if a person scored high enough to make the cert, it will list all the cities that person had on their gal that are cert cities."
Many people have reported making the cert or some of their GAL cities but not others, so I disagree. But I've hassled you enough. Thanks again for the inside rumor and I hope it's true.
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Post by 71stretch on May 15, 2014 21:31:39 GMT -5
You're basing your reasoning on 5 candidates having been referred for each city. I don't think that's what happened. Look at the "May 2, 2014 ODAR Cert cities" poll. It shows that as to some cities, as many as 37 people report that they were referred. And that's just among the readership of this board. Don't get me wrong ... I really appreciate you posting what you heard! My info is that when ODAR asked for 5 people per city, it yelded less than the desireable amount of candidates for the cert so they have asked for more people. As to the poll, keep in mind that if a person scored high enough to make the cert, it will list all the cities that person had on their gal that are cert cities. The issue is with the number of individuals on the cert not being high enough. And I have been through this roller coaster like all of us and wouldn't have posted if I didn't think the source was credible. I had been prepared for a long wait until I received this info. Of course, like any of the info here, it is not a guarantee Agree with robespierre that that's not what happened. Not everyone made the cert for every city on their GAL that is on the cert. That's clear from the information we have. |
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Post by Thomas fka Lance on May 16, 2014 6:14:42 GMT -5
The information Justice posted is accurate, that is additional names have been added to THIS cert, and the emails arrived this week. Check your spam folder.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:53:35 GMT -5
Sorry about the mistake regarding cert notices and number of cities. I stopped following the board recently as I was resigned to a long wait so I didn't follow that info.
My source didn't really address that topic. It is simply that odar requested additional names for this cert in order to get to around 270. And of course the 240 total hires ( at most 90 this year)
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Post by orchid on May 16, 2014 8:40:19 GMT -5
The information Justice posted is accurate, that is additional names have been added to THIS cert, and the emails arrived this week. Check your spam folder. We've only had one report of someone receiving an email this week. If there were others, surely we would have heard. Has anyone asked Bob or other management if names are going to be added to this cert? |
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Post by aqua96 on May 16, 2014 9:01:04 GMT -5
The information Justice posted is accurate, that is additional names have been added to THIS cert, and the emails arrived this week. Check your spam folder. We've only had one report of someone receiving an email this week. If there were others, surely we would have heard. Has anyone asked Bob or other management if names are going to be added to this cert? Also, if additional people were going to be added to this cert, they would also probably have to add cities for people already on the cert. For instance, for the person with a 73.90 who only qualified for 9 of his selected 44 cities - hypothetically, if they were expanding and adding names to the cert among lower scorers, I would think this person would now qualify for more than 9 cities. To my knowledge, this has not happened. |
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Post by gary on May 16, 2014 9:08:12 GMT -5
We've only had one report of someone receiving an email this week. If there were others, surely we would have heard. Has anyone asked Bob or other management if names are going to be added to this cert? Also, if additional people were going to be added to this cert, they would also probably have to add cities for people already on the cert. For instance, for the person with a 73.90 who only qualified for 9 of his selected 44 cities - hypothetically, if they were expanding and adding names to the cert among lower scorers, I would think this person would now qualify for more than 9 cities. To my knowledge, this has not happened. Excellent point. I agree. I can see ODAR requesting enough candidates to get the total on the certs up to 270. I can see OPM adding a small number of candidates to account for people who have struck cities or suspended from the register. I doubt that OPM would totally cave at this point and give ODAR more than 100 additional candidates. |
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Post by robespierre on May 16, 2014 9:21:16 GMT -5
Great point, Aqua.
But still, I hope Justice and Oliver are right. I might sneak onto the cert for one of the three cert cities that were on my GAL.
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Post by Gaidin on May 16, 2014 9:54:30 GMT -5
How many people here report that they were added to the cert? If any of those folks could post the email they received so we can see if it is different than the earlier emails in some way that would be great. Also are they getting added for the 46 cities listed elsewhere or some place else?
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Post by 71stretch on May 16, 2014 10:20:46 GMT -5
Also, if additional people were going to be added to this cert, they would also probably have to add cities for people already on the cert. For instance, for the person with a 73.90 who only qualified for 9 of his selected 44 cities - hypothetically, if they were expanding and adding names to the cert among lower scorers, I would think this person would now qualify for more than 9 cities. To my knowledge, this has not happened. Excellent point. I agree. I can see ODAR requesting enough candidates to get the total on the certs up to 270. I can see OPM adding a small number of candidates to account for people who have struck cities or suspended from the register. I doubt that OPM would totally cave at this point and give ODAR more than 100 additional candidates. Agree with this. It makes no sense for OPM to agree at this point to add that many more names. And they don't have to. This is their ball game, their rules. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 11:00:22 GMT -5
Excellent point. I agree. I can see ODAR requesting enough candidates to get the total on the certs up to 270. I can see OPM adding a small number of candidates to account for people who have struck cities or suspended from the register. I doubt that OPM would totally cave at this point and give ODAR more than 100 additional candidates. Agree with this. It makes no sense for OPM to agree at this point to add that many more names. And they don't have to. This is their ball game, their rules. May be right. All I heard was a request was made. So even if true, what OPM does....? |
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Post by gary on May 16, 2014 11:09:51 GMT -5
Agree with this. It makes no sense for OPM to agree at this point to add that many more names. And they don't have to. This is their ball game, their rules. May be right. All I heard was a request was made. So even if true, what OPM does....? Thank you for providing that intelligence. Information such as you provided helps us gain insight into this byzantine hiring process. |
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Post by JudgeRatty on May 16, 2014 16:31:44 GMT -5
Excellent point. I agree. I can see ODAR requesting enough candidates to get the total on the certs up to 270. I can see OPM adding a small number of candidates to account for people who have struck cities or suspended from the register. I doubt that OPM would totally cave at this point and give ODAR more than 100 additional candidates. Agree with this. It makes no sense for OPM to agree at this point to add that many more names. And they don't have to. This is their ball game, their rules. Ditto. Agree. |
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Post by Thomas fka Lance on May 16, 2014 18:19:29 GMT -5
Whether you agree or do not agree that more names have been added is certainly up to you. However, that doesn't change the fact that names were added.
So, please if you had a score near (but just below the cutoff figure), check your spam email folder. The email looks to the same as the email posted in previously on the forum, however there were only a few (very unpopular) cities from which to choose despite having had a wide open GAL.
This may explain the addition of these folks, that is, these cities fell to the very bottom of other people's choices, and names needed to be added to have more than one person from which to choose for these locations.
The choice is yours whether to check your email. Best of luck to everyone.
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Post by robespierre on May 16, 2014 22:04:42 GMT -5
Wait Oliver ... I must've misunderstood, or perhaps you and Justice are not saying exactly the same thing. You're saying people were added to the cert for just for a few very unpopular cities? Presumably a small number of people? I can definitely believe that.
I thought you were saying 100+ people were being added. (From the current 168 up to 270-300.)
Definitely checking e-mail, you best believe!
Thanks.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 17, 2014 6:12:15 GMT -5
Wait Oliver ... I must've misunderstood, or perhaps you and Justice are not saying exactly the same thing. You're saying people were added to the cert for just for a few very unpopular cities? Presumably a small number of people? I can definitely believe that. I thought you were saying 100+ people were being added. (From the current 168 up to 270-300.) Definitely checking e-mail, you best believe! Thanks. Robes my friend you were right from the start as well as in this post. SSA only invited a couple of more people because of some of those who left off cities or removed themselves from contention. Observer100 removed himself from contention by asking to be temporarily removed from the register and I believe he had seven cities on his cert. Hence, this would mean they needed one or more people to be added to the cert for those seven cities. So, no 100 people were never going to be added this time, now SSA depending on how things go this time, may tell OPM that things didn't work out well the new way and demand more names on the second cert. However, this won't be known until after this hire. TBD. |
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Post by funkyodar on May 17, 2014 7:09:10 GMT -5
To chime in:
I have also heard of odar's unhappiness with the size of the cert. I had not heard they were asking for some mass of new names. Other than the couple on the board, i have one board friend that PM me they got notice this week and I know of one non-board member that also got notice. Each of those were for a very small number of cities and each city was already on the cert. Plus, with my wide open GAL, i would think if they expanded the number of people on each city's list, I would have made some or all of the expanded certs for the 6 cities I missed on. But I got zilch new.
Thus, I am inclined to believe, like Robes, MPD and others, the additions were small, sporadic and done just to get the numbers back to where they were after requested register suspensions, city strikes and maybe background check failures. Until we see a lot more activity on the board, I cant believe they have added another 100+.
Dont get me wrong, I wish they would. Any additions would seem logically to have to be below me and, an expansion such as is proposed would indicate odar felt they could get to those new people, which would in turn me they had some plan on how they could maneuver around the confines of this new cert process like they did in the past. That would be good news to me and others in the lower end of the cert's reported score range.
I do think it is entirely possible that ODAR may not hire the full 90. That's a change from my past opinion. I dont see them being forced into hiring someone they dont absolutely want when it will be just as easy to shift unfilled slots to the next hiring round/cert.
Also, I continue to believe we may see them not hire or hire less than initially planned in some of teh cities and instead fill more slots than initially planned in others. I havent found any reason to believe they cant do that under the rules and it would allow them to bypass some folks they dont really like at the top of some cities' lists and get further down the lists to candidates they may like better in other cities. As long as they stay with the total of 90, have vacant offices in the city they want to hire more in and have at least enough names to consider the top 3 for each of that city's slots. This theory found a little more support during my hiatus. When discussing the number of hires that may go to a friend's office, the friend told me their hocalj said they didnt really know yet. Said it could be anywhere from zero to one for each of their vacant offices. Just depended how the hiring shook out. Now, that could just be the hocalj's opinion. Maybe based on nothing. Or it could be the tell that they do indeed plan to shift around the 90 vacancies. Afterall, its always been said they dont really care where a judge is stationed, just that the judge is who they want.
Just my own musings and opinions. Have a good day everybody.
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Post by prescient on May 17, 2014 7:32:39 GMT -5
How exactly does a NR work? IE. Let's say Philadelphia is the 1st city filled on this cert. The 3 highest scores for Philly are applicants A, B, and C; however applicant A was given a NR after his interview. Is applicant A immediately removed from consideration, allowing applicant D to take his spot in the top 3, or does applicant A continue to occupy one of the top 3 spots, but now puzzle palace will only consider applicants B+C?
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