|
Post by funkyodar on May 17, 2014 7:41:29 GMT -5
How exactly does a NR work? IE. Let's say Philadelphia is the 1st city filled on this cert. The 3 highest scores for Philly are applicants A, B, and C; however applicant A was given a NR after his interview. Is applicant A immediately removed from consideration, allowing applicant D to take his spot in the top 3, or does applicant A continue to occupy one of the top 3 spots, but now puzzle palace will only consider applicants B+C? I think, and it's only my understanding and may be entirely flawed, that it works like your second option. The NR doesnt remove the person from the cert. it just means odar wont hire that person. So, A (NR) is still #1, B and C are 2 and 3 and thats the top 3 for consid for Philly in your example. They wont hire #1, but how they get around it is dependent on other factors. If #1 isnt a vet, they could just not hire him, and go with #2 or 3. That would result in #1 having a strike, and if he is NR, they will likley count the strike and find a couple more places where they can "consider" him and get him two more quick strikes. If #1 is a vet...well, then it gets tricky. i would assume the first step is to find three other cities where he is in the top 3 but not #1, then fill those cities first, giving him 3 strikes. Then he is removed from Philly and the top 3 is now BCD. If they cant find a way to strike him out, they could then use the exception to bypass him in philly, but would have to have an opm approved reason for bypassing a vet. Last option, if they cant 3 strike him using other cities and cant find a valid vet preference exception to bypass him, would be just to not fill philly this round and hope when they try again on the second cert there is a way around the NR guy. Again, I may be wrong, but i think that's how they would do it.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on May 17, 2014 7:52:50 GMT -5
How exactly does a NR work? IE. Let's say Philadelphia is the 1st city filled on this cert. The 3 highest scores for Philly are applicants A, B, and C; however applicant A was given a NR after his interview. Is applicant A immediately removed from consideration, allowing applicant D to take his spot in the top 3, or does applicant A continue to occupy one of the top 3 spots, but now puzzle palace will only consider applicants B+C? A "not recommended" from the interview is simply the agency's stamp that "we don't want this person." It does not have anything to do with the law they must follow. In your scenario, A would stay at the top of the list, but the agency is free to take B or C. But if any of the three are preference eligible it gets a little more complicated. If all three are preference eligible the agency could take B or C, and A would simply get a strike. If A is preference eligible and B and C are not, in order to pass over A the agency would have to go through the procedures with OPM. At least I think that is how it works. Edit: what he said. Or they would decide not to fill Philly at that time so that they could hire/three-strike B and C in other cities to reach preference eligibles D and E on the Philly cert to pass over preference eligible A without having to justify it to OPM. Or they would strike A against other preference eligibles in other cities before they considered them in Philly. There are several options available to pass over an NR.
|
|
|
Post by gary on May 17, 2014 7:56:45 GMT -5
To chime in: I have also heard of odar's unhappiness with the size of the cert. I had not heard they were asking for some mass of new names. Other than the couple on the board, i have one board friend that PM me they got notice this week and I know of one non-board member that also got notice. Each of those were for a very small number of cities and each city was already on the cert. Plus, with my wide open GAL, i would think if they expanded the number of people on each city's list, I would have made some or all of the expanded certs for the 6 cities I missed on. But I got zilch new. Thus, I am inclined to believe, like Robes, MPD and others, the additions were small, sporadic and done just to get the numbers back to where they were after requested register suspensions, city strikes and maybe background check failures. Until we see a lot more activity on the board, I cant believe they have added another 100+. Dont get me wrong, I wish they would. Any additions would seem logically to have to be below me and, an expansion such as is proposed would indicate odar felt they could get to those new people, which would in turn me they had some plan on how they could maneuver around the confines of this new cert process like they did in the past. That would be good news to me and others in the lower end of the cert's reported score range. I do think it is entirely possible that ODAR may not hire the full 90. That's a change from my past opinion. I dont see them being forced into hiring someone they dont absolutely want when it will be just as easy to shift unfilled slots to the next hiring round/cert. Also, I continue to believe we may see them not hire or hire less than initially planned in some of teh cities and instead fill more slots than initially planned in others. I havent found any reason to believe they cant do that under the rules and it would allow them to bypass some folks they dont really like at the top of some cities' lists and get further down the lists to candidates they may like better in other cities. As long as they stay with the total of 90, have vacant offices in the city they want to hire more in and have at least enough names to consider the top 3 for each of that city's slots. This theory found a little more support during my hiatus. When discussing the number of hires that my go to a friend's office, the friend told me their hocalj they didnt really know yet. Said it could be anywhere from zero to one for each of their vacant offices. Just depended how the hiring shook out. Now, that could just be the hocalj's opinion. Maybe based on nothing. Or it could be the tell that they do indeed plan to shift around the 90 vacancies. Afterall, its always been said they dont really care where a judge is stationed, just that the judge is who they want. Just my own musings and opinions. Have a good day everybody. I agree with the first half of this but continue to disagree with the second half for the reasons previously beaten to death. It's great to have you back!
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on May 17, 2014 8:01:15 GMT -5
I do think it is entirely possible that ODAR may not hire the full 90. That's a change from my past opinion. I dont see them being forced into hiring someone they dont absolutely want when it will be just as easy to shift unfilled slots to the next hiring round/cert. I think if they are well short of the 90 hires (70-75 new hires), they'll use that (or try to anyway) to get more names on cert #2. Whether it works or not, who knows?
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on May 17, 2014 8:02:13 GMT -5
To chime in: I have also heard of odar's unhappiness with the size of the cert. I had not heard they were asking for some mass of new names. Other than the couple on the board, i have one board friend that PM me they got notice this week and I know of one non-board member that also got notice. Each of those were for a very small number of cities and each city was already on the cert. Plus, with my wide open GAL, i would think if they expanded the number of people on each city's list, I would have made some or all of the expanded certs for the 6 cities I missed on. But I got zilch new. Thus, I am inclined to believe, like Robes, MPD and others, the additions were small, sporadic and done just to get the numbers back to where they were after requested register suspensions, city strikes and maybe background check failures. Until we see a lot more activity on the board, I cant believe they have added another 100+. Dont get me wrong, I wish they would. Any additions would seem logically to have to be below me and, an expansion such as is proposed would indicate odar felt they could get to those new people, which would in turn me they had some plan on how they could maneuver around the confines of this new cert process like they did in the past. That would be good news to me and others in the lower end of the cert's reported score range. I do think it is entirely possible that ODAR may not hire the full 90. That's a change from my past opinion. I dont see them being forced into hiring someone they dont absolutely want when it will be just as easy to shift unfilled slots to the next hiring round/cert. Also, I continue to believe we may see them not hire or hire less than initially planned in some of teh cities and instead fill more slots than initially planned in others. I havent found any reason to believe they cant do that under the rules and it would allow them to bypass some folks they dont really like at the top of some cities' lists and get further down the lists to candidates they may like better in other cities. As long as they stay with the total of 90, have vacant offices in the city they want to hire more in and have at least enough names to consider the top 3 for each of that city's slots. This theory found a little more support during my hiatus. When discussing the number of hires that my go to a friend's office, the friend told me their hocalj they didnt really know yet. Said it could be anywhere from zero to one for each of their vacant offices. Just depended how the hiring shook out. Now, that could just be the hocalj's opinion. Maybe based on nothing. Or it could be the tell that they do indeed plan to shift around the 90 vacancies. Afterall, its always been said they dont really care where a judge is stationed, just that the judge is who they want. Just my own musings and opinions. Have a good day everybody. I agree with the first half of this but continue to disagree with the second half for the reasons previously beaten to death. It's great to have you back! I agree with him, which him, I don't know, but one of you has to be right!
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on May 17, 2014 8:07:40 GMT -5
I think you are right Hope. Justice posted that the agency had hiring authority for 240 total new ALJs over the next couple years. I hadnt heard the 240 exactly. DC Sklar had said on a conference call that they wanted to hire 150 this year, then 90 next year (240) but OPM's foot dragging led them to only be able to do 90 this year and the plan was to do 90 this, 90 next and then more "targeted" hiring of smaller groups on a third and fourth cert. So the 240 sounds about right.
So, OPM gives them these new rules and Odar isnt happy. Well, fine. Why not use this first cert to figure out the ins and outs, hire those you can reach and like but not necessarily the full 90. Then, after this practice run, you know things like the level of manueverability you have, how many names you should request to get the size pool you want, etc, for the second cert. And you can ask for more names and hire more than the planned 90 next year and still reach your 240 goal within the timeframe. May mean good news, both in regard to timing and size of the second cert, to many on the boards.
That said, i do think they will hire a good sized group from this cert. After all, there is no reason to believe this cert, pulled from the top of a new register, is full of undesirables. So, while i think they may not hire the 90, i bet its still above 75 or so. just a guess.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on May 17, 2014 9:15:07 GMT -5
I think you are right Hope. Justice posted that the agency had hiring authority for 240 total new ALJs over the next couple years. I hadnt heard the 240 exactly. DC Sklar had said on a conference call that they wanted to hire 150 this year, then 90 next year (240) but OPM's foot dragging led them to only be able to do 90 this year and the plan was to do 90 this, 90 next and then more "targeted" hiring of smaller groups on a third and fourth cert. So the 240 sounds about right. So, OPM gives them these new rules and Odar isnt happy. Well, fine. Why not use this first cert to figure out the ins and outs, hire those you can reach and like but not necessarily the full 90. Then, after this practice run, you know things like the level of manueverability you have, how many names you should request to get the size pool you want, etc, for the second cert. And you can ask for more names and hire more than the planned 90 next year and still reach your 240 goal within the timeframe. May mean good news, both in regard to timing and size of the second cert, to many on the boards. That said, i do think they will hire a good sized group from this cert. After all, there is no reason to believe this cert, pulled from the top of a new register, is full of undesirables. So, while i think they may not hire the 90, i bet its still above 75 or so. just a guess. I do not disagree with almost all you stated funky, but my inclination is ODAR will hire at least 80 ALJs, if not more. I, like you, believe it will be less than the 90 expected, but somewhere between 80 and 90 IMHO. I don't think they can go too long with the numbers of ALJs now in the system without there being an effect upon the time it takes to make decisions on cases and this leading to claimant dissatisfaction and Congressional uproar.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on May 17, 2014 10:08:16 GMT -5
I think you are right Hope. Justice posted that the agency had hiring authority for 240 total new ALJs over the next couple years. I hadnt heard the 240 exactly. DC Sklar had said on a conference call that they wanted to hire 150 this year, then 90 next year (240) but OPM's foot dragging led them to only be able to do 90 this year and the plan was to do 90 this, 90 next and then more "targeted" hiring of smaller groups on a third and fourth cert. So the 240 sounds about right. So, OPM gives them these new rules and Odar isnt happy. Well, fine. Why not use this first cert to figure out the ins and outs, hire those you can reach and like but not necessarily the full 90. Then, after this practice run, you know things like the level of manueverability you have, how many names you should request to get the size pool you want, etc, for the second cert. And you can ask for more names and hire more than the planned 90 next year and still reach your 240 goal within the timeframe. May mean good news, both in regard to timing and size of the second cert, to many on the boards. That said, i do think they will hire a good sized group from this cert. After all, there is no reason to believe this cert, pulled from the top of a new register, is full of undesirables. So, while i think they may not hire the 90, i bet its still above 75 or so. just a guess. I do not disagree with almost all you stated funky, but my inclination is ODAR will hire at least 80 ALJs, if not more. I, like you, believe it will be less than the 90 expected, but somewhere between 80 and 90 IMHO. I don't think they can go too long with the numbers of ALJs now in the system without there being an effect upon the time it takes to make decisions on cases and this leading to claimant dissatisfaction and Congressional uproar. Which would then let them point the finger at OPM for keeping them from making what they believe are the right hires to reduce the backlog, possibly resulting in more names on future certs. Ain't the government grand?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 12:51:17 GMT -5
I think you are right Hope. Justice posted that the agency had hiring authority for 240 total new ALJs over the next couple years. I hadnt heard the 240 exactly. DC Sklar had said on a conference call that they wanted to hire 150 this year, then 90 next year (240) but OPM's foot dragging led them to only be able to do 90 this year and the plan was to do 90 this, 90 next and then more "targeted" hiring of smaller groups on a third and fourth cert. So the 240 sounds about right. So, OPM gives them these new rules and Odar isnt happy. Well, fine. Why not use this first cert to figure out the ins and outs, hire those you can reach and like but not necessarily the full 90. Then, after this practice run, you know things like the level of manueverability you have, how many names you should request to get the size pool you want, etc, for the second cert. And you can ask for more names and hire more than the planned 90 next year and still reach your 240 goal within the timeframe. May mean good news, both in regard to timing and size of the second cert, to many on the boards. That said, i do think they will hire a good sized group from this cert. After all, there is no reason to believe this cert, pulled from the top of a new register, is full of undesirables. So, while i think they may not hire the 90, i bet its still above 75 or so. just a guess. I do not disagree with almost all you stated funky, but my inclination is ODAR will hire at least 80 ALJs, if not more. I, like you, believe it will be less than the 90 expected, but somewhere between 80 and 90 IMHO. I don't think they can go too long with the numbers of ALJs now in the system without there being an effect upon the time it takes to make decisions on cases and this leading to claimant dissatisfaction and Congressional uproar. I don't claim to have any insight into the big picture of this cert. I have had one conversation with one sitting ALJ who has told me that his office and lots of others in Crapland are really hurting because of transfers out, and that they do not now have enough ALJ's to keep up with the caseload. This has translated into phone calls to members of Congress complaining about the time it takes to get and ALJ decision. This one ALJ thought there would be more than enough "good" candidates on this cert to allow them to hire the full 90, and that Congress might be unhappy if ODAR didn't use the full hiring authority it now has.
|
|