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Post by 71stretch on Jun 12, 2014 12:07:12 GMT -5
Speaking of three strikes. From looking at the past threads on the three strike issue, it seems as if ODAR does not notify the candidate it has occurred. Is this correct? Just wondering if I'll get the bad news, or will have to speculate as to why I don't get any offers in the first, second, and following certs. You will not be notified. However, if they go back to their prior approach of asking OPM to leave the three struck off the register, you will find out that way when your score and GAL that should get you on a cert does not.
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Post by ok1956 on Jun 12, 2014 12:14:54 GMT -5
Now if they will just put one or two (or more!) of my cities on a cert, I would have a shot! Where is the "double-like" button!?!? Thanks flatreefarm!
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Post by WhereIsTheFrontDoor on Jun 12, 2014 12:24:18 GMT -5
Thanks Observer.
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Post by cowboy on Jun 12, 2014 13:08:40 GMT -5
Thanks Gary. I'm sure I'm not the only one anxious for the second cert! I too am anxious for them to do the second round of certs, hoping they'll include my locations and score. But I expect they'll want the new lists of eligibles to exclude the people they've hired and three-struck on the first round, and that can't happen until the first round hiring has taken place. In 2012 the Agency did their hiring of ALJs at the end of August 2012 with a start date on September 24, 2012. Thus they were able to hire before the end of the fiscal year. There does appear to be training classes scheduled for the training cadre in mid-August, mid-September and mid-October which would support a second hiring class before the end of the year.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 12, 2014 13:37:11 GMT -5
I too am anxious for them to do the second round of certs, hoping they'll include my locations and score. But I expect they'll want the new lists of eligibles to exclude the people they've hired and three-struck on the first round, and that can't happen until the first round hiring has taken place. In 2012 the Agency did their hiring of ALJs at the end of August 2012 with a start date on September 24, 2012. Thus they were able to hire before the end of the fiscal year. There does appear to be training classes scheduled for the training cadre in mid-August, mid-September and mid-October which would support a second hiring class before the end of the year. They could squeeze another hire in, particularly if they get the current hiring done quickly so that those folks are off the list (and the three struck ones, if they go the route of asking them to be left off the certs) before they ask for new certs.
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Post by gary on Jun 12, 2014 13:51:19 GMT -5
In 2012 the Agency did their hiring of ALJs at the end of August 2012 with a start date on September 24, 2012. Thus they were able to hire before the end of the fiscal year. There does appear to be training classes scheduled for the training cadre in mid-August, mid-September and mid-October which would support a second hiring class before the end of the year. They could squeeze another hire in, particularly if they get the current hiring done quickly so that those folks are off the list (and the three struck ones, if they go the route of asking them to be left off the certs) before they ask for new certs. I agree that they could. I hope they do, though I'm hesitant to expect any part of this process to move with that kind of expedition.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jun 12, 2014 14:11:42 GMT -5
In order for this (another round of certs being pulled for x number of cities this FY) to happen, it would appear that the selectees for this first cert needs to be completed by the end of June, and not the end of July. If offers were sent out at the end of June, acceptances, strikes and remaining eligibles could be assembled.
Additionally, if the ranking system utilized for each of these cities by the candidates under this first cert actually works, then SSA could more quickly determine who gets an offer this time around. As mentioned previously, the offers would go out city by city. Once that city is 'completed', i.e., offer accepted, no offer made due to no recommended candidates, etc., SSA immediately requests a new cert for a city that wasn't filled on this first cert, and/or for each city that has additional space for an ALJ.
Of course, any new city (not on the current list) could be requested at any time after each office reports back on their space allocations...
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 12, 2014 14:18:17 GMT -5
If they manage to get the second cert hired by the end of the calendar year I will be impressed. If they actually manage it before the end of the fiscal year it will be a Festivus Miracle that we will celebrate mightily this year when we put up the aluminum pole in December.
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Post by wclj on Jun 12, 2014 15:04:00 GMT -5
I heard some things today that gave me some pause. They came from someone who is currently employed by SSA. He/she said that some things were under consideration by SSA, as part of some reform by Congress. The two items that are the source of concern are: 1. A proposal for term limits for ALJ's. (No particulars about length, just an open-ended concept.) 2. A proposal to re-classify ALJ's to the equivalent of Hearing Officers, with a proportional reduction in salary. Have any of the other insiders heard of these proposals?
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Post by futuressaalj on Jun 12, 2014 15:07:12 GMT -5
I heard some things today that gave me some pause. They came from someone who is currently employed by SSA. He/she said that some things were under consideration by SSA, as part of some reform by Congress. The two items that are the source of concern are: 1. A proposal for term limits for ALJ's. (No particulars about length, just an open-ended concept.) 2. A proposal to re-classify ALJ's to the equivalent of Hearing Officers, with a proportional reduction in salary. Have any of the other insiders heard of these proposals? 1. Not happening 2. Been a rumor for years also not happening anytime soon if ever. Source of this information would add value.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 12, 2014 16:13:18 GMT -5
In 2012 the Agency did their hiring of ALJs at the end of August 2012 with a start date on September 24, 2012. Thus they were able to hire before the end of the fiscal year. There does appear to be training classes scheduled for the training cadre in mid-August, mid-September and mid-October which would support a second hiring class before the end of the year. They could squeeze another hire in, particularly if they get the current hiring done quickly so that those folks are off the list (and the three struck ones, if they go the route of asking them to be left off the certs) before they ask for new certs. OK, I guess I can't be completely incredulous given the source. My question is: did they interview enough candidates this past round to hire another 100?
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 12, 2014 16:14:13 GMT -5
They could squeeze another hire in, particularly if they get the current hiring done quickly so that those folks are off the list (and the three struck ones, if they go the route of asking them to be left off the certs) before they ask for new certs. OK, I guess I can't be completely incredulous given the source. My question is: did they interview enough candidates this past round to hire another 100? No, they didn't.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 12, 2014 16:20:27 GMT -5
OK, I guess I can't be completely incredulous given the source. My question is: did they interview enough candidates this past round to hire another 100? No, they didn't. So they are going to call all these HOCALJs and RCALJs back from West Indian Bend and schedule another round of interviews after Sep. 30? Guess they could. Seems to me like a huge waste of resources. Were they that flummoxed by OPM's new requirements re certs that they couldn't schedule 300-400 interviews this summer?
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 12, 2014 16:25:06 GMT -5
So they are going to call all these HOCALJs and RCALJs back from West Indian Bend and schedule another round of interviews after Sep. 30? Guess they could. Seems to me like a huge waste of resources. Were they that flummoxed by OPM's new requirements re certs that they couldn't schedule 300-400 interviews this summer? Apparently so, or enough so that they wanted to go through the process once with a smaller number, or they weren't sure at the time that they could do 200, or.... who knows.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 12, 2014 16:30:53 GMT -5
So they are going to call all these HOCALJs and RCALJs back from West Indian Bend and schedule another round of interviews after Sep. 30? Guess they could. Seems to me like a huge waste of resources. Were they that flummoxed by OPM's new requirements re certs that they couldn't schedule 300-400 interviews this summer? Apparently so, or enough so that they wanted to go through the process once with a smaller number, or they weren't sure at the time that they could do 200, or.... who knows. Puzzle Palace knows. And I think you are spot-on, o53. Takes a long while for a federal agency to change course, sorta like an aircraft carrier...
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Post by westernalj on Jun 12, 2014 16:47:22 GMT -5
That timeline doesn't look right to me. If they move quickly, couldn't they do another round of interviews in August?
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Post by luckylady2 on Jun 12, 2014 17:07:29 GMT -5
My completely uneducated, uninformed, outsider WAG (was that enough disclaimers??) is that SSA was very clever with this first cert and not only tested the new system but also tried to fill the traditionally less desirable (and therefor most needy) offices first and hopefully will be expanding its GAL on the next ones. It also appears to me that there might be a moderate regional bias, so they may be working through regions a group at a time, but giving the neediest offices priority.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jun 12, 2014 17:59:25 GMT -5
So they are going to call all these HOCALJs and RCALJs back from West Indian Bend and schedule another round of interviews after Sep. 30? Guess they could. Seems to me like a huge waste of resources. Were they that flummoxed by OPM's new requirements re certs that they couldn't schedule 300-400 interviews this summer? Apparently so, or enough so that they wanted to go through the process once with a smaller number, or they weren't sure at the time that they could do 200, or.... who knows. And let me be clear, Sklar said "hired" by the end of the year. He did not specify "start" or "trained" .... so there is still plenty of time to accomplish this goal of 200 by the end of the year. Again, he did not specifically say "fiscal" year end either, so I do not know if he meant fiscal or calendar. I would guess by December using the estimated time line currently under way. We have all guessed that some point in July those currently interviewing will get notice of hire for the Sept/Oct classes, so starting another round of certs about that time, July, would result in another 3 months of cert notice, interviews, and hiring...taking us after Oct 1st. Either way, the message was clear....aggressive hiring to get the ALJ corps back up to capacity. Colvin mentioned 200 in her speech to the House Oversight Committee as well (as mentioned earlier too). So this is a very good time to be on this register! And all of this is not the end....there will be more hiring in 2015 to get the Corps up to capacity.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 12, 2014 19:58:49 GMT -5
back from vacation and eager to jump on the speculation express.
after talking over Sklar's comments and the recent city cert additions with some colleagues.....i still dont have a funkin clue. But i have some pure WAGs.
FACT: prior to the release of NORs, Sklar said on management and SAA conference calls that they wanted to hire 150 this fiscal but opm foot dragging made more than 90 "impractical." EXTRAPOLATION: There was $ in the budget to hire that many they just didnt think they could get interviews for that many done. Of course, they didnt know then that they wouldnt be getting the traditional 3x the 150 but a lot less. FACT: They are no longer talking about "90 this fiscal" (havent heard that in weeks) but now in terms of 200 by the end of the year. FACT: While this cert started out with 168 and 44 cities (plus PR) which supported the report of 90 this fiscal, there have been additions. A handful got cert notices after the others and it was initially assumed they were replacements for dropouts. SPECULATION: with the addition of morgantown and many being added to cities previously in this round but for which they werent in competition, its entirely possible they do intend to hire more than 90 this round. We know there are 2 training classes planned, one each in sept and oct. That would mean 45 in each if they stick with 90. But the classroom can accomodate 60. So they could hire up to 120 without having to change a thing about the planned training and still be within the budget for the 150 they initially wanted to do this fiscal.
many will scoff at this theory on the grounds that they "couldnt hire 120" from 168 and because they only requested certs for 90 from opm. First, sure they originally certed for 90. But there has obviously been supplemental certs for some cities (thats the only way i and others got added to cities we werent originally on) and a new cert for morgantown. So, in truth we dont know how many slots odar has now told opm they want to fill this round. And two, i dont think its very likely that more than 25% of this first cert will be no reccs or otherwise unacceptable to odar. Again, these are the highest scorers on the register. Would they pass up taking one of them that got a recc on the interview in favor of holding the position open, requesting a second cert for that slot and hoping someone on that cert is a highly recc? When the pressure is apparently on to fill slots quickly? I dunno. Lets say 25% are no reccs or are otherwise unacceptable. also assume the 168 is the real number. Thats still 126 people that are the highest on the register for these cities and have at least a reccomend on the interview. They could easily fill 120 slots from that. And why not? With the changes by opm ssa doesnt have the flexibility to work the list to get to certain down register folks anyway.
longstory short, my first WAG is they hire more than 90 from this first cert. Maybe as many as 120. Leaving them with 80 more slots to fill on a second cert that could be requested in early august, interviews late august, starts October and training in november.
my second WAG is a variation on that. Start with the ideas that they are in a hurry and dont have the manueverability they once had. So, they finish up interviews and have the 126 referenced reccomended highscoring candidates they had above. They hire just the 90 though. But they put 60 in the september class and 30 in the october class.
September they comes and they request the second round of certs. Some of the same cities appear along with some new ones. But guess what? They already have 36 of the top scorers interviewed from the first cert. Logically, for many cities they will be the top 1 and maybe the top 3. So, they can hire them quickly, say on October 1 so they count on next fiscal, give short report notices and have them in the october class to fill out the 60 with the 30 put in that class from the first round. Then, once again, they only have to do enough interviews to fill 80 slots by the end of the calendar year.
i know neither of these theories will be popular with those waiting for the second cert. But i just cant fathom a situation where more than 25% of the top scorers on the register are unacceptable to odar. In the past, when they could manipulate to board to reach favored sons at the bottom of the register, sure. But they cant do that anymore. Plus, to do that takes time and the obvious pressure to push it fast negates that. So, i just think a lot of those on these first certs that arent picked up this round will be on the second.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 20:12:50 GMT -5
However, if SSA is not happy about the few number of people they had to interview they could ask that all three struck not be sent on the second cert. That would give them the chance to look at a whole new batch. Just because you are three struck from the second cert does not mean SSA cannot consider you for the third cert. That would give SSA the chance to see more people, knowing where everyone wants to be and how open their GALs really are. This theory would be based in part on budget--if they had the budget approved to interview 300 people and only interviewed 168 why not use up some of that money on interviewing further down the register? Not based on any insider knowledge, just adding something to think about.
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