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Post by Gaidin on Jun 23, 2014 11:16:03 GMT -5
So it seems likely that ODAR will be filling empty offices more than offices with a back log since they can just do tele-hearings. That means the crucial information for us 2nd certers and beyond is where are the empty offices. I am hoping that an insider or someone with knowledge will give us some information. If you want to pass that information along anonymously I will happily keep your identity secret. I certainly don't need to know where you live or work.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 23, 2014 11:25:02 GMT -5
Which part of Crapland do you not understand??
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 23, 2014 11:30:13 GMT -5
Bart there was lots of Crapland not on the last Cert but Spokane and Eugene were there. There will likely be lots of Crapland not on the next. The information we are getting is all about filling empty offices. I would like to know where they are.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jun 23, 2014 11:33:26 GMT -5
Which part of Crapland do you not understand?? Point taken, Bartleby. But the recent intel on the number and timing of hires from a second cert does raise some interesting possibilities. It seems the 1st cert may well fill a large number of crapland openings, as we saw from the 47 cities listed. Additional openings in some non-crapland locations may now exist due to continuing attrition. This means that the 2nd certers may have some more appealing locations come available. Since the transfer list was worked so recently, it may not fill all those positions. Also, the new hires from the 1st cert will not have sufficient time (90 days) to get on the transfer lists for these desirable cities. This would seem to mean that (paradoxically) the 2nd certers may be placed from a list that has a few fewer craplands (already filled by 1st certers) and a few more desirable or semi-desirable cities, where retirements/tranfers-out took place, and which now have openings.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 23, 2014 11:46:11 GMT -5
I believe that the transfer list is updated monthly now. I also believe that any open office will be looked at by all of those on the transfer list, so I don't see a lot of great positions opening up. The transfer list is long, but distinguished, as Goose once said.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 23, 2014 12:07:53 GMT -5
Couple of points....
Whether or not those hired on the first cert have their 90 days in is dependent completely on timing. If you are in the first group that will presumably start on Aug 25, your 90 days will run on Nov 23. If the second cert hire is after that (and based on the most current rumors thats possible) a first cert hire MAY get a transfer opportunity. Now, you say but they work the list prior to requesting the cert and that will be done well before late November. But thats not entirely right. This board is full of reports that a city or several on a cert ultimately wasnt hired for because the position was filled after the cert request by transfer. In fact, there has been at least one report that the transfer list was still being worked after this cert came out.
Plus, even if the second hire is done before the first cert hires are transfer eligible, I think a smaller third round of hiring will follow the second pretty quickly and open up the transfers again. And the first certers will be eligibe then, but maybe not the second.
As to where the openings will be, it is anyones guess. I suspect the cities on the first cert are those that had multiple vacancies. Thats why its 47 locales for 90 hires. My guess is the second cert will be many more locales because it will be the offices with single vacancies. Some of these same cities may be there as additional vacancies arose after the first cert. If they hire 110 on the second cert, and that cert is for 70 or 80 cities....I think there will be a lot more names on the cert than are on this one due to gals. And competition for each city will be harder as they are filling less slots for each locale.
And finally, I still wouldnt expect to see the most popular of places. They still have plenty on the transfer list that are eligible.
There are cities that are seemingly on every cert (toledo, Charleston, tupelo) and even though they are on the first dont be surprised to see them on the second. Likewise, there are cities that are rarely if ever on the cert (dc, san fran etc) that wont be in this one either.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 23, 2014 12:19:53 GMT -5
Don't forget Mt. Pleasant, Michigan..
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 23, 2014 12:53:28 GMT -5
Couple of points.... Whether or not those hired on the first cert have their 90 days in is dependent completely on timing. If you are in the first group that will presumably start on Aug 25, your 90 days will run on Nov 23. If the second cert hire is after that (and based on the most current rumors that's possible) a first cert hire MAY get a transfer opportunity. Now, you say but they work the list prior to requesting the cert and that will be done well before late November. But that's not entirely right. This board is full of reports that a city or several on a cert ultimately wasn't hired for because the position was filled after the cert request by transfer. In fact, there has been at least one report that the transfer list was still being worked after this cert came out. Plus, even if the second hire is done before the first cert hires are transfer eligible, I think a smaller third round of hiring will follow the second pretty quickly and open up the transfers again. And the first certers will be eligible then, but maybe not the second. As to where the openings will be, it is anyone's guess. I suspect the cities on the first cert are those that had multiple vacancies. That's why its 47 locales for 90 hires. My guess is the second cert will be many more locales because it will be the offices with single vacancies. Some of these same cities may be there as additional vacancies arose after the first cert. If they hire 110 on the second cert, and that cert is for 70 or 80 cities....I think there will be a lot more names on the cert than are on this one due to gals. And competition for each city will be harder as they are filling less slots for each locale. And finally, I still wouldn't expect to see the most popular of places. They still have plenty on the transfer list that are eligible. There are cities that are seemingly on every cert (toledo, Charleston, tupelo) and even though they are on the first don't be surprised to see them on the second. Likewise, there are cities that are rarely if ever on the cert (dc, san fran etc) that wont be in this one either. I think my bro, funky, is spot on. You will indeed see the majority of the same cities again on the second cert. There may be a few wildcards, but the most popular places will not be in play when it comes time to hire. Funky is right that SSA continues to work the transfer list even after the cert and evidently it is now done monthly. So, don't expect too many popular or too many different cities to be available. The Mt. Pleasants, Toledos, Charlestons, etc. will be on the next cert again. It is just part of the process when transfers are allowed and the newbies get a spot in Crapland or Crapland East to start.
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Post by robespierre on Jun 24, 2014 13:14:49 GMT -5
I'm trying to dwell on the positive here ...
If the second cert mostly covers the same old cities that were on the first, the good news is that some folks with scores in the low 70s or even high 60s might get some action. (Because for those cities, many higher-scoring applicants will have been eliminated on the first go-round due to being either hired or three-struck.)
If the second cert has lots of new cities, the good news is that those whose GAL cities didn't come up on the first cert might have better luck on the second cert.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 24, 2014 13:20:11 GMT -5
I'm trying to dwell on the positive here ... If the second cert mostly covers the same old cities that were on the first, the good news is that some folks with scores in the low 70s or even high 60s might get some action. (Because for those cities, many higher-scoring applicants will have been eliminated on the first go-round due to being either hired or three-struck.) If the second cert has lots of new cities, the good news is that those whose GAL cities didn't come up on the first cert might have better luck on the second cert. This is true robes, but don't bet on there being very many new locations. A few perhaps, but a lot of retreads are very likely to happen again. In example, Mt. Pleasant, Michigan has about six openings for ALJs in their offices, but they aren't going to hire six of them from the 90 expected hirings this time. Hence, it will show back up again next time and the same for Toledo, Grand Rapids, and Charleston. Hence, retreads will happen again.
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Post by robespierre on Jun 24, 2014 13:25:25 GMT -5
^ No doubt! So anyone who has Mt. Pleasant on their GAL is looking good, even with a score south of 73.41.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 24, 2014 13:42:33 GMT -5
man I hope Spokane and Eugene have lots of empty offices......... Spokane - The Mt. Pleasant of the West
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 24, 2014 13:43:08 GMT -5
I think even scores in the 60s will make the second set of certs this time.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jun 24, 2014 13:49:55 GMT -5
I'm trying to dwell on the positive here ... If the second cert mostly covers the same old cities that were on the first, the good news is that some folks with scores in the low 70s or even high 60s might get some action. (Because for those cities, many higher-scoring applicants will have been eliminated on the first go-round due to being either hired or three-struck.) If the second cert has lots of new cities, the good news is that those whose GAL cities didn't come up on the first cert might have better luck on the second cert. This is true robes, but don't bet on there being very many new locations. A few perhaps, but a lot of retreads are very likely to happen again. In example, Mt. Pleasant, Michigan has about six openings for ALJs in their offices, but they aren't going to hire six of them from the 90 expected hirings this time. Hence, it will show back up again next time and the same for Toledo, Grand Rapids, and Charleston. Hence, retreads will happen again. MPD, I'm not challenging your intel but would like to know more about the basis for what you said (in bold). How do you know MP, MI, will not fill all six spots from the 1st cert? I've assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if there were six openings there they are trying to fill, and if they found six appropriate and interested candidates, SSA would offer the job to those six candidates from Cert #1 and they would probably accept. How do you know that not all currently open positions in T, GR, Ch, etc. will not be filled from Cert #1? Thanks.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 24, 2014 13:50:06 GMT -5
MPD, I'm not challenging your intel but would like to know more about the basis for what you said (in bold). How do you know MP, MI, will not fill all six spots from the 1st cert? I've assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if there were six openings there they are trying to fill, and if they found six appropriate and interested candidates, SSA would offer the job to those six candidates from Cert #1 and they would probably accept. How do you know that not all currently open positions in T, GR, Ch, etc. will not be filled from Cert #1? Thanks. Sandi you like to question everything, you are not fooling me. The plain and simple reason is that there were 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. If they fill the six openings in Mt. Pleasant, the three in Grand Rapids, the three or four in Toledo, etc. SSA will not be filling all 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. A lot of those cert cities, including Tupelo has at least two or maybe three openings, so there is no way 90 ALJs are going to fill all of the open spots at each of those cities. It is an impossibility. I hope this answers your question Sandi, if not I guess I am sorry.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 24, 2014 13:57:30 GMT -5
It's hard to incorporate 5 or 6 new Judges into an office at the same time, and then they all come up for transfer at the same time. Causing an endless shuffle with very little office work being done. Further, if you give 6 to Toledo and 6 to Mt. Plesant, you got nobody to give everybody else, so 1 or 2 missing Judges will get 1 and 5 or 6 missing Judges will geet 2 or 3 on each CERT. JMHO.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jun 24, 2014 13:59:16 GMT -5
MPD, I'm not challenging your intel but would like to know more about the basis for what you said (in bold). How do you know MP, MI, will not fill all six spots from the 1st cert? I've assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if there were six openings there they are trying to fill, and if they found six appropriate and interested candidates, SSA would offer the job to those six candidates from Cert #1 and they would probably accept. How do you know that not all currently open positions in T, GR, Ch, etc. will not be filled from Cert #1? Thanks. Sandi you like to question everything, you are not fooling me. The plain and simple reason is that there were 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. If they fill the six openings in Mt. Pleasant, the three in Grand Rapids, the three or four in Toledo, etc. SSA will not be filling all 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. A lot of those cert cities, including Tupelo has at least two or maybe three openings, so there is no way 90 ALJs are going to fill all of the open spots at each of those cities. It is an impossibility. I hope this answers your question Sandi, if not I guess I am sorry. Thanks for the answer MPD. BTW, did my post offend you? I seem to read your reply that way, although I can assure you no offense was intended. I don't question everything, but I do question when I don't understand something, and appreciate the sharing of information.
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Post by hopefalj on Jun 24, 2014 14:09:22 GMT -5
It's hard to incorporate 5 or 6 new Judges into an office at the same time, and then they all come up for transfer at the same time. Causing an endless shuffle with very little office work being done. Further, if you give 6 to Toledo and 6 to Mt. Plesant, you got nobody to give everybody else, so 1 or 2 missing Judges will get 1 and 5 or 6 missing Judges will geet 2 or 3 on each CERT. JMHO. Nothing would give a better "Welcome to Michigan" than a January report date.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 24, 2014 14:09:40 GMT -5
Sandi you like to question everything, you are not fooling me. The plain and simple reason is that there were 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. If they fill the six openings in Mt. Pleasant, the three in Grand Rapids, the three or four in Toledo, etc. SSA will not be filling all 46 or 47 cities listed on the first cert. A lot of those cert cities, including Tupelo has at least two or maybe three openings, so there is no way 90 ALJs are going to fill all of the open spots at each of those cities. It is an impossibility. I hope this answers your question Sandi, if not I guess I am sorry. Thanks for the answer MPD. BTW, did my post offend you? I seem to read your reply that way, although I can assure you no offense was intended. I don't question everything, but I do question when I don't understand something, and appreciate the sharing of information. No your post didn't offend me at all sandi, but I was just kidding around as you do like to question things. However, I never mind sharing information or knowledge if I can as I am sure you or others on this Board always do the same. It just seems inconceivable that SSA will fill in all those spots from the 47 cities as most have two or more ALJ openings. I think the recent request from SSA to find out about all open or available ALJ offices is dealing with part of the second cert, but mainly the third and subsequent certs as SSA is trying to fill up almost every ALJ office that it can while it still has the funding to do so. SSA is looking to bring down the backlog of about 900,000 cases quickly and proceed to dealing with CDRs on a more frequent basis, once the backlog of present outstanding cases waiting for hearing is brought down to a more manageable level.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 24, 2014 14:12:49 GMT -5
It's hard to incorporate 5 or 6 new Judges into an office at the same time, and then they all come up for transfer at the same time. Causing an endless shuffle with very little office work being done. Further, if you give 6 to Toledo and 6 to Mt. Plesant, you got nobody to give everybody else, so 1 or 2 missing Judges will get 1 and 5 or 6 missing Judges will geet 2 or 3 on each CERT. JMHO. Bart you stated it well. I always appreciate your wisdom on such a topic.
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