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Post by cheesy on Oct 14, 2014 0:25:56 GMT -5
Not to be a Danny Downer here, but...
Given that you hear of the occasional attack on an officer of the State or Federal courts (including judges) as a result of the performance of their official duties, has anything like that ever happened for ALJs or staff? Have you ever felt unsafe as an ALJ? I suspect there's not an issue, but I didn't see any fora to discuss the topic otherwise.
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Post by christina on Oct 14, 2014 5:17:26 GMT -5
cheesy, there are measures in place, including contracted armed guards at some and maybe all SSA offices that interact with the public. Since this is a public forum that anyone in the world could read, i don;t want to say more on here but there are several security measures in place. and yes, there have been occasional incidents at SSA offices over the years. Can not remember if were any incidents at an ODAR or not.
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Post by bartleby on Oct 14, 2014 7:51:40 GMT -5
There have been incidences at ODAR. The Union had an open discussion at the recent Conference concerning safety inside and outside the building... There are ongoing concerns.
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Post by bartleby on Oct 14, 2014 8:50:38 GMT -5
Here are the official records for the last three months:
In accordance with Article 23 of the Master Agreement between the Office of Disability Adjudication and Review (ODAR) and the International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers/Association of Administrative Law Judges (IFPTE), please find enclosed incident alerts involving threats or actions against ODAR Administrative Law Judges (by region) for the period of July 1, 2014 through September 30, 2014. A total of 9 incidents were reported during this period. A breakdown of the number of incidents for each region is shown below:
Region Incident(s) Region I 0 Region II 1 Region III 1 Region IV 0 Region V 1 Region VI 0 Region VII 2 Region VIII 0 Region IX 4 Region X 0 NHC Headquarters 0 ODAR Headquarters 0
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Post by cheesy on Oct 14, 2014 9:02:03 GMT -5
Thanks, Bartleby and Christina. This answers the mail for me, both in level of threat and response. As a security-minded individual, I just wanted to know that ODAR did have some standardized level of force protection measures in place; of course I don't want to discuss or divulge specific TTPs. However, the presence of these FP measures should provide some comfort to concerned family members and spouses of prospective and new ALJs.
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Post by Gaidin on Oct 14, 2014 9:56:38 GMT -5
Gary and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices.
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Post by hopefalj on Oct 14, 2014 11:18:47 GMT -5
I guess I have some concerns about it. The level of security is not nearly what it is for federal judges given that most ODARs are not located in federal buildings. Then again, it's probably not too much different than the security for state court judges or district attorneys.
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Post by bartleby on Oct 14, 2014 12:34:23 GMT -5
Can't state court judges and district attorneys carry handguns??
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Post by gary on Oct 14, 2014 13:14:51 GMT -5
Gary and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. No offense, but I can speak for myself. Gaidin and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices.
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Post by hopefalj on Oct 14, 2014 13:21:52 GMT -5
Can't state court judges and district attorneys carry handguns?? Depends on the state, I would think.
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Post by Gaidin on Oct 14, 2014 13:23:05 GMT -5
Bart depends on the state. Some yes and some no. Of course they have at least one armed court officer in the court room.
Honestly, I would be far less worried on being targeted in the office or hearing room than at home or outside the office. I have dealt with some dangerous people in very adversarial settings as an attorney and rarely if ever worried about it at the office. I have worried about it while crossing the parking lot at the end of a trial or going into the house at night.
I understand from what you posted above Bart that the Union's security concerns were beyond the hearing room. I am glad to hear that those concerns are being considered.
I also made light above and I wouldn't want anyone to take that to mean that I believe an ALJ robe is bullet proof or that there could be no credible threat.
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Post by anotherfed on Oct 14, 2014 13:42:28 GMT -5
Gary and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. No offense, but I can speak for myself. Gaidin and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. I concur with Gary and Gaidin, speaking separately, of course.
An alternative career could involve design and production of Kevlar judicial robes... you could make a fortune...
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Post by Gaidin on Oct 14, 2014 13:58:44 GMT -5
Anotherfed, you're a genius. Perhaps British style barrister wigs with a steel insert.
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Post by ok1956 on Oct 14, 2014 14:25:29 GMT -5
Gary and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. No offense, but I can speak for myself. Gaidin and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. Hahahahahahaha. You all are RELENTLESS. And I greatly appreciate it!
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Post by bartleby on Oct 14, 2014 15:46:38 GMT -5
Wait, WHAT, our Robes aren't bullet proof.... OMG, I have been deceived again.
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Post by Missundaztood on Oct 14, 2014 16:29:15 GMT -5
Bart depends on the state. Some yes and some no. Of course they have at least one armed court officer in the court room. Honestly, I would be far less worried on being targeted in the office or hearing room than at home or outside the office. I have dealt with some dangerous people in very adversarial settings as an attorney and rarely if ever worried about it at the office. I have worried about it while crossing the parking lot at the end of a trial or going into the house at night. I understand from what you posted above Bart that the Union's security concerns were beyond the hearing room. I am glad to hear that those concerns are being considered. I also made light above and I wouldn't want anyone to take that to mean that I believe an ALJ robe is bullet proof or that there could be no credible threat. When I worked for a different agency, I was targeted in my office. Thankfully, it was an empty threat. Always be vigilant! No offense, but I would rather have security armed than my colleagues. Less concern about being hit accidentally by "friendly fire" by the under-trained (and those losing their eye sight). BTW, I think where federal judges can carry also depends on the state when off the federal land (I think it is an "incorporation" law). I researched it long ago when the judge I worked for was taking an out-of-state trip, but things could have changed since then (or I might be remembering incorrectly, as is always a possibility).
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Post by privateatty on Oct 14, 2014 18:38:17 GMT -5
18 USC Sec. 930 applies--unless you're a cop or like type, its illegal, except if its allowed under law. Query if you can pack concealed under State law can you then legally pack in a federal building? Thoughts?
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Post by Gaidin on Oct 14, 2014 19:15:26 GMT -5
No offense, but I can speak for myself. Gaidin and I think some of you should consider this threat very serious and consider alternative career choices. Hahahahahahaha. You all are RELENTLESS. And I greatly appreciate it! There is no shame in deciding this isn't the gig for you. I am just trying to make sure everybody has considered all the possible issues they could confront. I won't speak for Gary though.
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Post by hopefalj on Oct 14, 2014 19:34:33 GMT -5
18 USC Sec. 930 applies--unless you're a cop or like type, its illegal, except if its allowed under law. Query if you can pack concealed under State law can you then legally pack in a federal building? Thoughts? No. I believe federal buildings are subject to federal law and exempt from state law, aren't they? I'm sure others, like robg, are much more versed in the nuances than I. I don't believe concealed handgun licenses allow people in their state to carry guns into bars, schools, state courts, etc., either.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Oct 14, 2014 19:45:35 GMT -5
18 USC Sec. 930 applies--unless you're a cop or like type, its illegal, except if its allowed under law. Query if you can pack concealed under State law can you then legally pack in a federal building? Thoughts? No. I believe federal buildings are subject to federal law and exempt from state law, aren't they? I'm sure others, like robg, are much more versed in the nuances than I. I don't believe concealed handgun licenses allow people in their state to carry guns into bars, schools, state courts, etc., either. Exactly.
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