|
Post by ba on Jan 28, 2015 16:45:05 GMT -5
Judge Posner did not compare ALJs to chicken deboners. He used chicken deboners to illustrate a point about production quotas. On the next page he used an example from the federal judiciary to illustrate another point. Interestingly, no one has taken that to mean he thinks ALJs are equivalent to Article III Judges. You're right, of course. However, I am left to wonder whether deboned chickens would be disabled for purposes of the SSA.
|
|
|
Post by bartleby on Jan 28, 2015 17:08:52 GMT -5
Wait, did someone mention Chicken PII?? My Kitties love Chicken PII, especially deboned Chicken PII..
|
|
|
Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 28, 2015 18:30:10 GMT -5
Wait, did someone mention Chicken PII?? My Kitties love Chicken PII, especially deboned Chicken PII.. Bart I saw a commercial today for the "Kitten Bowl" for the Superbowl festivities, and immediately thought of you. www.hallmarkchannel.com/kitten-bowl
|
|
|
Post by jerseymom on Jan 28, 2015 22:27:18 GMT -5
Google Gary Larson's cartoon "boneless chicken ranch". It could change the poultry industry.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 13:06:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by redryder on Feb 3, 2015 16:33:11 GMT -5
Does anyone out there have a guess at what the union spent on this litigation in attorney fees, costs and litigation related expenses? I haven't seen anything in any of their newsletters, but then this may be information they are sharing with their members only.
|
|
|
Post by johnthornton on Feb 3, 2015 18:54:09 GMT -5
I have heard rumors of up to $500,000. Some members have asked President Randy Frye how much was spent but he simply ignored the emails and never responded.
|
|
|
Post by gary on Feb 3, 2015 22:58:14 GMT -5
Granted, but he could easily have said "assembly-line workers" or used an entirely different analogy. He was intentionally being snarky. If you run a search on Seventh Circuit opinions authored by Posner that include the words "social security disability" you will find more than a few belittling SSA ALJs and their work product. I wonder whether he simply dislikes SSA ALJs or whether he objects to administrative adjudication generally on philosophical grounds. I don't know enough about Posner to say whether he and Professor Hamburger are philosophically simpatico. The antepenultimate [how's that for a five-dollar word?] paragraph of Judge Ripple's concurring opinion has the flavor of an apology for the chicken deboning language. I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one. When J Posner used the chicken deboner example he did not equate ALJs to chicken deboners. When on the next page J Posner used an example from the federal judiciary he did not equate ALJs to Article III judges. In each case he was using an example to illustrate a point. It may well be that J Posner hates ALJs as so many seem to think--I don't know. This opinion, however, does not support that proposition.
|
|
Yeats
New Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by Yeats on Feb 3, 2015 23:29:39 GMT -5
These posts about the litigation expenses piqued my interest. I have been wondering as well about how much the litigation might have cost, and I wondered if you could backing to the figure by looking at any of the AALJ financials and LM-2s posted on-line. The cost breakdowns in the posted financials are too general, and the LM-2s for 2012 and 2013 are not posted on the AALJ website. You can pick up the LM-2 filing number from the 2011 LM2, which is posted on the AALJ website, and then search for the 2012 and 2013 LM2s on-line. It turns out that there is some specificity about legal expenses in the 2012 and 2013 LM2s, and we can take a shot at figuring out the minimum amount of money that was paid.
The 2012 LM2 shows a $5000 payment to Professor Cynthia Farina for a “Brief on Standing.” It also shows a $7350 payment to Professor Martin Reddish, who is denominated a legal consultant. It shows a $32,154 payment to Robinson, Curley and Clayton, the law firm that handled the litigation and which I believe handled very little else for the AALJ besides the litigation.
The 2013 LM2 shows $352,380 was paid to Robinson, Curley and Clayton for representation. The LM2s show that in 2012, AALJ paid Mooney, Green, Baker and Saindon $48,552 and in 2013, paid this firm $56,880. However, since the Mooney firm also handles other labor matters for the AALJ, it is impossible to determine what portion of these expenses were allocated to the litigation.
Finally, the 2014 LM2 has yet to be filed, and it undoubtedly also contains expenses for the lawsuit, and there are indirect expenses as measured by the total number of hours that the NEB devoted to the lawsuit. Judge Wenzel was the head of the litigation committee, and probably spent a good portion of his allotted union time shepherding the lawsuit, and Judge Zahm surely spent time preparing for the oral argument, and Board minutes reflect that Judge Eppler was also assigned to the 7th Circuit argument team as well.
At the very least, assuming that Farina and Reddish are the law professors who the AALJ consulted with, and that the Robinson, Curley expenses were solely traceable to the litigation, then the expense floor is probably in the vicinity of $400,000, and when you factor in the value of Judge Wenzel, Judge Zahm and Judge Eppler's time, the amount of work that the Mooney firm did on the litigation, and what it cost in 2014, then you will go north of $400,000, but by how much is indeterminate, and of course, I made some assumptions in order to get to that figure. The overall cost could be $500,000 but it could be close to $400,000. I just cannot tell from the information on file.
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Feb 4, 2015 7:55:38 GMT -5
Excellent detective work Yeats. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by SPN Lifer on Sept 2, 2017 23:20:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Legal Beagle on Sept 8, 2017 9:13:17 GMT -5
NEWSFLASH - Posner has retired immediately. Reported by the ABA Journal. Apparently could not get along with other judges, and is going to run his cat's campaign for president in 2020. Posner RetiresWhy Posner retired
|
|
|
Post by montyburns on Sept 8, 2017 9:16:41 GMT -5
NEWSFLASH - Posner has retired immediately. Reported by the ABA Journal. Apparently could not get along with other judges, and is going to run his cat's campaign for president in 2020. Posner RetiresWhy Posner retiredNot a Posner fan, but if he's a cat guy he can't be all bad. Looks like we already have a front runner for 2020 - he/she/it has my vote!
|
|
|
Post by SPN Lifer on Sept 8, 2017 9:43:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jonsnow on Sept 8, 2017 10:10:06 GMT -5
Wait. Now this is all starting to make sense. Is our Pixie Posner's cat Pixie? Surely it can't be a coincidence that they share the same name.
|
|
|
Post by bayou on Sept 8, 2017 10:24:43 GMT -5
That would explain why she is so adept at herding this glaring of cats. I think it is called a glaring, which I learned from Pixie by the way.
|
|
|
Post by montyburns on Sept 8, 2017 10:42:23 GMT -5
That would explain why she is so adept at herding this glaring of cats. I think it is called a glaring, which I learned from Pixie by the way. Hold on now, are you saying "glaring of cats" is like a "murder of crows?" Glaring seems appropriate somehow
|
|
|
Post by bayou on Sept 8, 2017 10:50:20 GMT -5
Yes. Herd of cows, murder of crows, school of fish, and glaring of cats. At least that is what I recall Pixie saying they were called. I think somebody else said they could be called something like "chowder" but I can't recall exactly what they said.
|
|
|
Post by SPN Lifer on Sept 8, 2017 11:04:07 GMT -5
Yes. Herd of cows, murder of crows, school of fish, and glaring of cats. At least that is what I recall Pixie saying they were called. I think somebody else said they could be called something like "chowder" but I can't recall exactly what they said. If Pixie said that, she was pulling the leg of a merry prankster like you. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_terms_of_venery,_by_animal There seem to be technical problems with this Wikipedia link in BBC, due to the comma. One may cut-and-paste the entire link. Search: collective noun cats. For cats it is a clowder or a pounce. For feral cats it is a destruction.
|
|
|
Post by Pixie on Sept 8, 2017 12:01:29 GMT -5
You are exactly right, Bayou. And it is a clowder as well as a Glaring. From my favorite and most definitive online resource: A group of cats is referred to as a "clowder" or a "glaring",[49] a male cat is called a "tom" or "tomcat"[50] (or a "gib",[51] if neutered), an unaltered female is called a "queen",[52] and a juvenile cat is referred to as a "kitten". The male progenitor of a cat, especially a pedigreed cat, is its "sire",[53] and its female progenitor is its "dam".[54] In Early Modern English, the word 'kitten' was interchangeable with the now-obsolete word 'catling'.[55] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
|
|