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Post by gary on Jan 11, 2015 13:08:00 GMT -5
Great question. I too am a NODAR with little (not quite no) background in social security law and practice. I too would be very interested in a study guide of some sort to help me with the learning curve should I be fortunate enough to get the call.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 11, 2015 13:10:13 GMT -5
I posted some things in another thread for someone else who asked the same question a while back, but can't find it. I wrote to start with the regs and the SSA website as a good place for beginners. After all, if it is in plain language from SSA to the general public, it should be fairly easy to follow. www.ssa.gov/disability/www.ssa.gov/regulations/I don't want to endorse any particular rep sites, but there are several online that do have good info.
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Post by gary on Jan 11, 2015 13:17:20 GMT -5
Thanks Sratty.
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Post by gary on Jan 11, 2015 15:48:30 GMT -5
Thanks devildog. That is very reassuring.
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Post by hopefalj on Jan 11, 2015 16:09:23 GMT -5
Six months? I've been doing it more than six years, and I don't fully understand it. I think I'd just subscribe to the coin flip method of jurisprudence.
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Post by mamaru on Jan 11, 2015 17:26:32 GMT -5
I agree that the SSA training materials are good but until you've worked the cases for awhile you don't always pick up the nuances, especially in non-disability cases.
As for body parts, bobharris, the most important one is the back. There's a VOD about backs they will have you watch that will bring you up to speed on the terms you need to understand. Pay attention and take notes, if that's how you learn. If you master the stuff that typically goes wrong with the back, you will be on the way to ODAR success. Fear not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 20:10:57 GMT -5
I just sent Bob and Gary the link to my website as a private practitioner. It contains a video vault with my answers to many basic SSDI/SSI questions, including addressing many relevant listings and the 5 step evaluation. This is basic information, geared to the claimant, but it nicely spots patterns in winning cases vs. losing cases. The videos were filmed in late 10/2014, so they are relatively recent. If anyone wants the link in the future, privately message me. Watching the 50+ videos will offer a quickie, elementary review.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 11, 2015 20:56:54 GMT -5
One of the reasons I do not suggest reviewing any one study guide in particular, is that most of these are written by reps. We have to be careful of appearances and not to suggest any one rep's materials over another. I would stick to the regs and SSA materials. I know that Hannah22 means well, but it made me do a little cringe when a current rep who has no current plans to pursue the ALJ position is sending new ALJs or even ALJ candidates materials from her own representative website. I don't mean to be a butt head here, but I think that isn't a good idea. Please do not take this wrong Hannah, I know you only mean to help. But there are judicial ethics, potential bias, favoritism, etc. issues at play. Maybe I am being too sensitive about it, but maybe not. Something to think about.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 11, 2015 21:00:12 GMT -5
Thanks so much! I forgot/failed to check my PMs on this board and had several I hadn't seen. You must have put a tremendous amount of time into producing those videos. I'll look 'em over. I think a review of the listings in the regs is a good place to start so that you become familiar with the different body systems. The prologue to each of the listings provides a great deal of info, and once you start working, there will be many modules that will have what you need. www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/AdultListings.htm
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Post by hopefalj on Jan 11, 2015 21:42:54 GMT -5
I agree with devildog's thought that you don't need to worry about boning up on specific law right now or before you start. You're going to have 120 hours of free study time your first three weeks on the job, including educational videos, talking with judges/attorneys/personnel, and doing your own research through the regs. Like many other things in life, this is something that is more readily learned when you can get your hands on files, see how things could work, and have people around you that can answer questions regarding nuances or confusion you may encounter. The important thing, in my opinion, is that you care enough to learn it, which clearly appears to be the case. Hopefully you wind up with a good mentor. I've heard some troubling things sitting ALJs have told newly appointed ALJs in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 21:53:14 GMT -5
I have no agenda. I have been on both sides of the fence- government and private practice. My video vault is quite generic and I try to give straight answers to basic questions. I send my website via PM as a service to those who may be interested. I have yet to apply for an ALJ position, that's true. I may in the future. Then again, I may not. Ultimately, I'd like to think that we are all in this to learn and be of service.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 7:15:58 GMT -5
I am a complete outsider with no background whatever in Social Security law or practice. (Admin law sí, Social Security no.) Do any of you insiders have a recommendation (something along the lines of Gilbert's or a Nutshell) to give me an overview of the law before attending training in April? At nearly $400, Social Security Disability Practice is probably overkill. I'd like to get a big-picture overview before drilling down into the details. I'm facing a huge learning curve and had better get started sooner rather than later ... Will be grateful for any and all recommendations. In you situation, I would suggest as follows. 1. Do NOT plunge into the rules, regs and especially do NOT pay out money for third party videos and books. You are completely wasting time and money. (99.9999% of what you will pay to third parties for SSA info for is already available on line for free. Those info manuals are invariably nothing more than regurgitations of free information and most importantly are the author's view of SSA "how to do" claims, not the SSA itself. See step 4 below.) 2. DO find a local, experienced SSA attorney representative of good standing. Explain your situation and ask if you can attend some of his hearings as an observer. You will not take written notes. You will observe only. You will not talk. You will need the rep's, the claimant's and the ALJ's permission. Most everyone I know would be agreeable to such training observation. DO as many of those as possible. After the hearings you can discuss with the rep "how to do" hearings. 3. DO read federal court appeals of SSA claims. They are online, free. Federal court appeal decisions inavariably do a very good job of explaining the 5 step process of a SSA claim and what are common errors and corrections; in other words "how to" present a claim. They also routinely hyperlink to applicable rules and regs. That makes the rules and regs more understandable. Do not take notes and try to construct a practice manual from these decisions. Just kick back and read them, there are 1000's for all jurisdictions. If you do not understand one, just move on to another. You will eventually see the patterns develop for each step. 4. Anything you do not know now will be taught to you, in minute detail, on the job and in intensive training and in the correct manner by the SSA. 5. Relax, you are not alone.
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Post by bartleby on Jan 12, 2015 8:32:01 GMT -5
I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but I gotta agree with Hopefalj. This stuff isn't rocket science, wait, what? It actually is harder than rocket science. Like everything else, there is a sophomoric stage you will all go through. About 3-6 moths later you will all of a sudden go, OMG, where did that come from. Remember this is a 5 step process, wait, that's not right, it's a 5 1/2 step process, or is it? The problem is the Reg's etc. are very convoluted. Every case, and I mean every case has a nuance that makes it individual with specific problems. If you think you know it all, refer back to sophomoric stage. I have been doing this for almost 20 years and I am still learning. If you don't see the problem, you just aren't recognizing it. For newbies, probably the most accurate way to determine a disability case for the first year is to toss a coin... Just joking... or am I??
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 12, 2015 9:01:31 GMT -5
I have had the experience of being an agency ALJ in 2 agencies, with two different statutes dealing with vastly different areas of law. I also have arbitrated and mediated statutory cases in the U.S. and abroad, learning the law that is presented to me and explained by the advocates. For many years, I have interpreted contracts every day that I've never seen before. Everyone learns differently, people have different comfort levels. Having tried it a few times, I would no longer start boning up on anything before the training and before starting work. I find that I need context that I can't get from books. If/when I get The Call, I will enjoy a few deep breaths before plunging in, not thinking about the next step until it comes. But, again, everyone's different. The way that works for you is the best way.
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Post by funkyodar on Jan 12, 2015 9:11:43 GMT -5
The time prior to your report date should, IMHO, be devoted to family (especially if about to leave them) and closing up a practice, changing jobs etc. You will have ample time to study in the three weeks you are basically useless to your office. Then you will have very in depth, intensive training for four solid weeks that will enlighten the ouitsiders and bore the insiders. Then you will have a great mentor and staff that ease you into the pool. Trust me, there is no reason to worry about any of it till you report.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 10:34:53 GMT -5
As you are reporting in March, takes funkys advice. Wrap up your business, spend time with friends and family. You will learn what you need to learn when you get there. (Huh. A friend of mine gives very similar advice to his client's who are reporting for long prison terms......)
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Post by bartleby on Jan 12, 2015 10:41:27 GMT -5
Another quick word of advice. When you get to your new office, they should assign you a mentor. If you are unhappy with your mentor, request a change. If you are assigned the HOCALJ as your mentor, request a change immediately. I am serious.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 12, 2015 11:00:45 GMT -5
Another quick word of advice. When you get to your new office, they should assign you a mentor. If you are unhappy with your mentor, request a change. If you are assigned the HOCALJ as your mentor, request a change immediately. I am serious. If you are assigned Bartleby remember he loves his cats so a small package of high (end) cat food would go a long way to ensuring you get the best mentoring.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 11:20:18 GMT -5
Bartleby eats cats?
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Post by funkyodar on Jan 12, 2015 11:27:46 GMT -5
High cats at that....
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