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Post by firehouse9 on Jan 15, 2015 12:55:55 GMT -5
Sure. Thanks so much for the responses. They eliminate a lot of ambiguity about that part in my mind. Yes, I was aware that the window for applying was very limited, so my thought was to try to figure out what I could do in advance. Most of what I had seen about the "test" was very vague, and I wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding, something or if that was because everyone on here had already taken it and were not interested in it anymore. That it is covered by confidentiality helps explain that, although I really get that one may as well try to figure out how decisions are made in North Korea as at OPM. I've worked for the federal government before and it's unusually secretive. I'll just hope for the best. Thanks again!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 13:35:24 GMT -5
You wait patiently for the brief period when the alj position is open for receipt of applications. When you see it on usajobs.gov, you apply. You watch as 25% to 33% of those that applied, with excellent credentials, are told they don't meet the minimum qualifications without any real explanation and hope and pray it isn't you. If you survived the first cut, you take the online tests and watch again as a huge number fall without any explanation other than "your score was not in the higher scored subgroup" and a "see details tab" in your app manager. If you survived that cut, you go to DC for two written tests (and no, no one will ever tell you anything more than one is a written demonstration and the other is a Logic Based test. You also do a structured interview with OPM while there. once again, you watch highly qualified people be told they didnt make the cut and you pray. Get thru all that you make THE REGISTER. Don't even get a t-shirt. Then you wait and wait to appear on a cert for some agency. If you land on one, you interview with that agency and hope some more. Then you watch offers go out and see people that should clearly get one not get one. Then, if extremely lucky. your phone rings, you get an offer, you pack your bags for crapland and head off. There you have it folks, "ALJ Selection In A Nutshell, " written by Hon. Funky ODAR.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 15, 2015 14:22:49 GMT -5
Note that the book above is from 2011. The process has changed since then.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 15, 2015 14:24:52 GMT -5
Note that the book above is from 2011. The process has changed since then. I was JUST going to point that out too. changed a LOT since then.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jan 15, 2015 14:28:01 GMT -5
You wait patiently for the brief period when the alj position is open for receipt of applications. When you see it on usajobs.gov, you apply. You watch as 25% to 33% of those that applied, with excellent credentials, are told they don't meet the minimum qualifications without any real explanation and hope and pray it isn't you. If you survived the first cut, you take the online tests and watch again as a huge number fall without any explanation other than "your score was not in the higher scored subgroup" and a "see details tab" in your app manager. If you survived that cut, you go to DC for two written tests (and no, no one will ever tell you anything more than one is a written demonstration and the other is a Logic Based test. You also do a structured interview with OPM while there. once again, you watch highly qualified people be told they didnt make the cut and you pray. Get thru all that you make THE REGISTER. Don't even get a t-shirt. Then you wait and wait to appear on a cert for some agency. If you land on one, you interview with that agency and hope some more. Then you watch offers go out and see people that should clearly get one not get one. Then, if extremely lucky. your phone rings, you get an offer, you pack your bags for crapland and head off. As usual funky, thank you for my laugh of the day. You sure did boil it all down to simplicity in your post. Everything you said is spot on.
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Post by cheesy on Jan 15, 2015 14:43:06 GMT -5
Can we disclose that the exam may or may not be administered in the English language? :-)
I will say that I thought it was fun.
I also have been told that I have a warped sense of fun.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jan 15, 2015 15:27:24 GMT -5
I thought it was fun too. As the length of time increases between that event and today, a smile emerges across my face thinking about how wonderful that day was . . . oh, wait . . . that was the feeling I had after I had a drink and a cigarette AFTER the test. Nah, looking back, the ordeal was all good and totally worth it. My GAL selection on the other hand - THAT was stupid mistake!!!
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Post by jonsprag1 on Jan 16, 2015 21:18:10 GMT -5
Sure. Thanks so much for the responses. They eliminate a lot of ambiguity about that part in my mind. Yes, I was aware that the window for applying was very limited, so my thought was to try to figure out what I could do in advance. Most of what I had seen about the "test" was very vague, and I wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding, something or if that was because everyone on here had already taken it and were not interested in it anymore. That it is covered by confidentiality helps explain that, although I really get that one may as well try to figure out how decisions are made in North Korea as at OPM. I've worked for the federal government before and it's unusually secretive. I'll just hope for the best. Thanks again! The window for applications used to be limited (only open a day or less for the first 1000 applicants) but in 2013 the window was open for two weeks and some 6000 people applied. As Funky said, we went through a series of tests and interviews which we can't tell you about and gradually the 6000 was pared down to about 800, the so called register list---then depending on what your combined score on the tests and interviews was (known as a NOR for notification of results) and the number of cities where you indicated you were willing to take a job, you might be referred to the SSA for one of the openings in its office of disability adjudication and review (ODAR)--you then get called to an interview in Falls Church with the SSA and eventually, they may call you and offer you a job. I completed the online application on March 13, 2013 and will report to my alj job on March 23, 2015---so remember it can be a long, long wait. Thankfully, I already had a pretty good job with another federal agency so there was no urgency and I had the luxury of being able to wait. Good luck on your application
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Post by firehouse9 on Jan 20, 2015 12:13:45 GMT -5
Another really informative response. Not something that I knew. Thanks again!
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Post by ba on Jan 23, 2015 8:33:37 GMT -5
You wait patiently for the brief period when the alj position is open for receipt of applications. When you see it on usajobs.gov, you apply. You watch as 25% to 33% of those that applied, with excellent credentials, are told they don't meet the minimum qualifications without any real explanation and hope and pray it isn't you. If you survived the first cut, you take the online tests and watch again as a huge number fall without any explanation other than "your score was not in the higher scored subgroup" and a "see details tab" in your app manager. If you survived that cut, you go to DC for two written tests (and no, no one will ever tell you anything more than one is a written demonstration and the other is a Logic Based test. You also do a structured interview with OPM while there. once again, you watch highly qualified people be told they didnt make the cut and you pray. Get thru all that you make THE REGISTER. Don't even get a t-shirt. Then you wait and wait to appear on a cert for some agency. If you land on one, you interview with that agency and hope some more. Then you watch offers go out and see people that should clearly get one not get one. Then, if extremely lucky. your phone rings, you get an offer, you pack your bags for crapland and head off. Funky, you forgot that, if you're lucky you get back a score from the exam and say to yourself, "Ugh, I guess I got a B or a C" (or even a D) only to discover that getting a score is itself an achievement and that the scoring system is nothing like that letter-grade system you were so familiar with in school.
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Post by orchid on Apr 5, 2015 20:47:03 GMT -5
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 5, 2015 21:24:23 GMT -5
Might be best to start a new thread with this. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by Ace Midnight on Apr 6, 2015 6:57:30 GMT -5
These are probably stupid questions for the people on this board:
1. What is the ALJ "Exam"? Is it really just the structured interview people talk about? Is it written?
2. If there is a written exam, what subject matter is covered by it?
3. Are there old copies of the exam out there?
Thanks to all! And I don't want to override the other great responses you've already received - but, the "ALJ Examination" - at least as you've phrased the question is the entire 3-part examination process, as you have to complete all successfully to receive the magical, mythical final numerical score, sometimes called the "NOR" (Notification of Results). This was formally a 2-part process, but the current process is 3-parts (sometimes called "phases"). Honestly, I haven't reviewed the FAQ to see how well it documents the changes as I experienced them, but cliff notes are as follows: Phase/part 1 - Online application (either during an open period, or 10-point vets applying at any time), which includes profile information, a resume and certain minimum qualification information. You must be deemed qualified to advance to the next step. Phase/part 2 - Online "testing" - which includes a writing sample, situational judgement test and a written self-assessment. You must achieve a minimum score to be invited to OPM in Washington, D.C. for the proctored portion. Phase/part 3 - Proctored portion at OPM headquarters - this includes the written examination and structured interview. You must achieve a minimum passing score on both elements to receive a final numerical result and placement on the ALJ register. The subject matter of each of these elements, beyond Phase/part 1 are confidential and those of us who have completed the process have sworn to not reveal specific details or content of the elements. So, now that I've answered your first question, and with all of the other posts in the thread, we cannot answer question 2 and the answer to 3 is either "No" or "There better not be." And, good luck.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 6, 2015 16:10:49 GMT -5
Funky's summary, ace's admonitions and the other posts are all very informative and accurate. And despite the fact that this is a merit driven application process, you do need luck--usually in the form of having the right cities on your GAL for the certificate in the hand of the hiring agency--and not being in the way of a favorite son or daughter.
However, there is a little bit more that needs to be said. You need to be extremely well-rounded in the craft of being a lawyer. We all know (or most of us do) lawyers who are great in court, but can't write a compelling brief. Or lawyers who are rain-makers and can sell un-needed legal services to general counsel. Some are schmoozers, some are wall flowers and some are just average Joes/Marys. Between the various processes that funky outlines the one and two dimensional lawyers will fall by the wayside. Only the steady Eddys who are utlity players, grounded in confidence and purpose and with their noses firmly pointed to the prize will wear the robe. We have seen arrogance, ignorance and weakness in these pages over the years--these folks come and go.
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Post by cheesy on Apr 6, 2015 20:31:58 GMT -5
Only the steady Eddys who are utlity players, grounded in confidence and purpose and with their noses firmly pointed to the prize will wear the robe. We have seen arrogance, ignorance and weakness in these pages over the years--these folks come and go. Among the arrogant, the ignorant, and the weak, we're all wondering what category we fall into! I wonder if those attorneys who are arrogant simply didn't go to a law school that truly challenged them. I took three years of Humility as a recurring elective, and that life lesson served me well ever since.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 6, 2015 20:54:32 GMT -5
Only the steady Eddys who are utlity players, grounded in confidence and purpose and with their noses firmly pointed to the prize will wear the robe. We have seen arrogance, ignorance and weakness in these pages over the years--these folks come and go. Among the arrogant, the ignorant, and the weak, we're all wondering what category we fall into! I wonder if those attorneys who are arrogant simply didn't go to a law school that truly challenged them. I took three years of Humility as a recurring elective, and that life lesson served me well ever since. I think the course in humility is quite valuable when it comes to public service professions. Good point Cheesy! (or is it Cheeseball now?) . I also think arrogance in a government or public service job ends in unhappiness for all involved including the individual, coworkers, and claimants. Confidence is one thing but arrogance... Not such a good thing.
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Post by thankful1 on Apr 6, 2015 23:55:06 GMT -5
Only the steady Eddys who are utlity players, grounded in confidence and purpose and with their noses firmly pointed to the prize will wear the robe. We have seen arrogance, ignorance and weakness in these pages over the years--these folks come and go. Among the arrogant, the ignorant, and the weak, we're all wondering what category we fall into! I wonder if those attorneys who are arrogant simply didn't go to a law school that truly challenged them. I took three years of Humility as a recurring elective, and that life lesson served me well ever since. I'm of the opinion that law school has nothing to do with it. When it comes to arrogance, I think your born with it, or its nurtured into you long before you went to law school.
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 7, 2015 9:07:09 GMT -5
Only the steady Eddys who are utlity players, grounded in confidence and purpose and with their noses firmly pointed to the prize will wear the robe. We have seen arrogance, ignorance and weakness in these pages over the years--these folks come and go. Among the arrogant, the ignorant, and the weak, we're all wondering what category we fall into! I wonder if those attorneys who are arrogant simply didn't go to a law school that truly challenged them. I took three years of Humility as a recurring elective, and that life lesson served me well ever since. I learned humility from Drill Sergeant Gardner at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma. I can honestly say even at its worst law school didn't hold a candle to the lessons in humility Ft. Sill delivered.
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Post by sfactor23 on Apr 12, 2015 19:21:29 GMT -5
dumb question: I am computer literate, but I do type slowly; am I screwed with the exam?
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Post by gary on Apr 12, 2015 19:46:22 GMT -5
We are sworn to secrecy for most aspects of the exam. However, they do give out some relevant information to the applicants. Here is the announcement for the position: www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/338848600Click the link for where the announcement may be viewed
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