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Post by gary on Aug 17, 2015 10:06:42 GMT -5
I know of at least two sitting ALJs who got their starting salaries bumped up this way.
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Post by nj4096 on Aug 17, 2015 15:51:01 GMT -5
I have worked at a few agencies and as outside contractor for the government (private employer). When I began at SSA as a decisionwriter my salary was based on the highest federal grade I had attained which was a GS-11 with maybe a couple steps. My most recent employment at the time was in the private sector at a rate higher than the GS-11 - no consideration was given to that employment. Likewise when I began my job at the USPTO it was based on the higher salary I had attained at SSA without any regard to any intervening private salary. The documentation relied on mainly was the SF-50s I supplied immediately to personnel upon receiving a call that I was being offered the job (before I accepted). On the GS scale I believe my salary when going to a new position was to be at least 2 steps above my current salary (note this was 15 years ago). But this was at the GS 11 level and from these posts it seems folks are saying they will just give you at least what you were making. After I was on board I supplied or verified that they had my most recent accounts of Service comp dates, sick leave accrued (as it is reinstated upon return to fed service). I had cashed out any annual leave and my then low amount of TSP. (It should be easier now that everything is electronic in an eOPF. - still would pull my recent SF50 before accepting any offer). Hope this helps.
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Post by gary on Aug 17, 2015 16:07:44 GMT -5
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Post by february on Sept 17, 2015 8:54:54 GMT -5
nj4096 may have answered my question above, but I'm wondering if anyone can confirm this specifically in the ALJ context. I'm currently employed by a different federal agency, earning more than the ALJ minimum salary. If I leave federal employment to work in the private sector and then am subsequently lucky enough to be hired as an ALJ, would my salary revert to my last federal salary, assuming I provided proper documentation? Or would the break in employment mean that I would start off at the ALJ minimum?
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Post by gary on Sept 17, 2015 9:09:17 GMT -5
OPM says:
"An agency may offer an ALJ applicant with prior Federal service a rate higher than the minimum rate, up to the lowest rate of basic pay that equals or exceeds the applicant's highest previous Federal rate of basic pay, not to exceed the maximum rate F."
They do not say an ALJ applicant must be hired without a break in federal service to be paid the higher starting salary.
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Post by Gaidin on Sept 17, 2015 9:10:44 GMT -5
OPM says: "An agency may offer an ALJ applicant with prior Federal service a rate higher than the minimum rate, up to the lowest rate of basic pay that equals or exceeds the applicant's highest previous Federal rate of basic pay, not to exceed the maximum rate F." They do not say an ALJ applicant must be hired without a break in federal service to be paid the higher starting salary. They also don't say they have to pay you that higher rate though....
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Post by gary on Sept 17, 2015 9:14:52 GMT -5
OPM says: "An agency may offer an ALJ applicant with prior Federal service a rate higher than the minimum rate, up to the lowest rate of basic pay that equals or exceeds the applicant's highest previous Federal rate of basic pay, not to exceed the maximum rate F." They do not say an ALJ applicant must be hired without a break in federal service to be paid the higher starting salary. They also don't say they have to pay you that higher rate though.... Very true. But my understanding from ALJs I have heard from on this subject is that where the requirements are met SSA always has paid the higher rate in the past.
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Post by february on Sept 17, 2015 9:26:33 GMT -5
Good to know. Thanks.
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Post by cafeta on Sept 17, 2015 13:03:19 GMT -5
They also don't say they have to pay you that higher rate though.... Very true. But my understanding from ALJs I have heard from on this subject is that where the requirements are met SSA always has paid the higher rate in the past. I am in a similar pay rate situation as february, so I sure hope that is their standard practice. I chose to read "may" not as may or may not, but as permissive/permission. As in "yes, you may play outside after you clean your room."
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Post by hapi2balj on Sept 17, 2015 14:53:32 GMT -5
The discussion has seemed to focus on those with a break in federal service, but I assume "prior federal service" means anything prior to assignment as an ALJ. Therefore, to follow up on Gaidin's point, even if one moves directly from one federal job to ALJ status, there's no absolute guarantee that his/her most recent federal salary will even be matched. I'm encouraged that most folks seem to be saying in all known circumstances it has been matched/exceeded, regardless of break or no break in service, but I agree with him that SSA is not obliged to do so based on the quoted guidance.
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Post by pumpkin on Sept 17, 2015 18:19:43 GMT -5
The discussion has seemed to focus on those with a break in federal service, but I assume "prior federal service" means anything prior to assignment as an ALJ. Therefore, to follow up on Gaidin's point, even if one moves directly from one federal job to ALJ status, there's no absolute guarantee that his/her most recent federal salary will even be matched. I'm encouraged that most folks seem to be saying in all known circumstances it has been matched/exceeded, regardless of break or no break in service, but I agree with him that SSA is not obliged to do so based on the quoted guidance. You bring up a good point, hope2b - perhaps the inquiry of, "I'm a (current or former) fed, will you match my pay?" is one of those questions asked by people who get the Bob/Mellinda call, which then puts the offer into a limbo for a short time. I guess it makes about as much sense as asking, "what exactly constitutes non-conforming office space?" to ensure you're not at a standing desk in the ladies' room.
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Post by aljwishhope on Sept 17, 2015 21:23:18 GMT -5
Been at my current federal job for 15 years (just to note I am not a flake) but prior to that early in my career I held several positions in and out of federal service including a stint as a decision writer for ssa. Each time to the best of my recollection I was given 24 hours to accept or decline and at the time I got offer I had to provide sf-50 to show salary entitlement. Based on federal salary only the offer was generally 2 steps above my last pay. As far as I recall this occurred regardless of the fact that I moved from a DC pay area to another locality.
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Post by luckylady2 on Sept 17, 2015 23:04:04 GMT -5
Yes, that would jibe with the standard procedure. It all goes by your base grade & step, with no attention to locality pay. The locality pay bump comes afterward, depending on where you end up working.
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Post by cafeta on Sept 18, 2015 0:36:52 GMT -5
So, let me see if I have this straight. My base pay, without the locality factor, is used in comparison with the ALJ base pay? And assuming I stay in the same locality, would not the Alj locality bump be similar to my GS locality bump? I need to get this straight as I take my OPM tests in a few weeks, and then I will only have, oh, about 12-36 months to get all this down. And, yes, this assumes I get an NOR and get on the register. Picky details!
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Sept 18, 2015 6:15:17 GMT -5
Concentrating on the tests seems like a good strategy. Good luck. Forget about this issue until after the SSA Interview.
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Post by gary on Sept 18, 2015 8:14:29 GMT -5
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Post by hapi2balj on Sept 18, 2015 8:16:17 GMT -5
So, let me see if I have this straight. My base pay, without the locality factor, is used in comparison with the ALJ base pay? And assuming I stay in the same locality, would not the Alj locality bump be similar to my GS locality bump? I need to get this straight as I take my OPM tests in a few weeks, and then I will only have, oh, about 12-36 months to get all this down. And, yes, this assumes I get an NOR and get on the register. Picky details! Cafeta, As I believe I've already posted here, I ran the numbers both ways for myself using your assumptions, and came up with the same result. But, I can see where this might not be true for everyone.
Good luck on your tests/interview!
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Post by cafeta on Sept 18, 2015 9:56:49 GMT -5
So, let me see if I have this straight. My base pay, without the locality factor, is used in comparison with the ALJ base pay? And assuming I stay in the same locality, would not the Alj locality bump be similar to my GS locality bump? I need to get this straight as I take my OPM tests in a few weeks, and then I will only have, oh, about 12-36 months to get all this down. And, yes, this assumes I get an NOR and get on the register. Picky details! Cafeta, As I believe I've already posted here, I ran the numbers both ways for myself using your assumptions, and came up with the same result. But, I can see where this might not be true for everyone.
Good luck on your tests/interview!
Shoot, how did I miss that? Your post spelled it out exactly (although absent the hyperlinks Gary provided - thanks Gary!). So thanks for the info! And thanks for the luck, as for prepping, well we all need some minor diversions!
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Post by anotherfed on Sept 20, 2015 11:27:25 GMT -5
I was in a similar situation. I asked at the time of the call and was given an immediate answer. I think Bob and Mellinda must have authority to go up to a certain salary level without approval. With as many feds and former feds in the hiring pool, can you imagine how much slower the process would be without it? Oy vey!
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Post by dcasea on Dec 15, 2015 18:54:00 GMT -5
Also, the statute allows for higher pay level under certain conditions one of which is: "With prior OPM approval, an agency may offer an ALJ applicant with superior qualifications who is within reach for appointment from the ALJ certificate of eligibles, the rate of pay that is next above the applicant's existing pay or earnings, not to exceed the maximum rate F." Following up on this point. This rule does not mention basic pay; it says "existing pay" which suggests to me that it includes locality pay for feds. On the ALJ pay system page on opm.gov, it says: "Superior qualifications means an appointment made at a rate above the minimum rate based on such qualifications as experience practicing law before the hiring agency; experience practicing before another forum in a field of law relevant to the hiring agency; or an outstanding reputation among others in a field of law relevant to the hiring agency." Has anyone successfully invoked the "superior qualifications" clause to get the next higher ALJ rate than their current federal (or non federal) salary? Would you do that at the time of offer as suggested upthread, with an SF-50 and... some other documentation? What experience or fields of law did SSA consider "relevant," or how did you show your "outstanding reputation"? I ask because I'm a GS-15 step 3 in a high locality pay location. A Rest of US, or even a low locality pay, ALJ 3/B appointment would be less than my current salary. ALJ 3/C under those circumstances would be great.
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