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Post by Missundaztood on Mar 24, 2015 22:10:06 GMT -5
Here is the link to the relevant OPM handbook. See Chapter 6, section B, at page 137 et seq., but the relevant sections are at p. 143 ("After arranging all the eligibles in score order by their entitlement, it is time to consider the number of names that will be referred to the selecting official. Each eligible is entitled to three 'bona fide' considerations, and the appointing official is entitled to consider three eligibles for each vacancy." And, "The general rule for referring the appropriate number of names per vacancy is that you must certify enough names from the highest ranking eligibles to permit the selecting official to consider at least three names for appointment to each vacancy in the competitive service. (5 U.S.C. § 3317)[.]" Also, "At your discretion and based on your past experience, additional names may be certified to compensate for eligibles who are within reach for consideration but will decline or fail to respond to an inquiry of availability or interview.") Here is 5 U.S.C. 3317, the statutory section re certs. It requires that "preference eligibles" who will be not considered on certs (three-struck) get advance notice. ("(b) When an appointing authority, for reasons considered sufficient by the Office, has three times considered and passed over a preference eligible who was certified from a register, certification of the preference eligible for appointment may be discontinued. However, the preference eligible is entitled to advance notice of discontinuance of certification.") (My emphasis; Haven't heard of that notice happening yet.) "Preference eligibles" is defined at 5 U.S.C. 2108, link here, which includes, among others, everyone with vet's points. And there is 5 C.F.R. § 332.405: "Three considerations for appointment. An appointing officer is not required to consider an eligible who has been considered by him for three separate appointments from the same or different certificates for the same position." But the C.F.R. cannot override the U.S.C. provision (it expands the three-strike rule beyond preference eligibles in the statute to all candidates) -- if the appointing authority is not going to consider a preference eligible, the preference eligible has to be notified. Thus, SSA would have to tell OPM to omit the name, not just refuse to consider the name, particularly of a preference eligible, once OPM presented the name on the cert and it lands in the top 3. But I have provided the relevant sections (including as a starting place for research) so someone can convince me otherwise.  See Lackhouse v MSPB, 773 F. 2d 313 (Fed Cir 1985). Got it. There is a difference in a vet "being passed" over under the statute and being three-struck under the C.F.R. (applies to all applicants). Lackhouse argued they were incompatible. I don't think they are; I read them as complimentary, with more rights afforded under the statute for vets. Here, there are subsequent certs, which is what we are talking about. Lackhouse is just like the first round of SSA certs, which filled all of the vacancies at several geographical locations. The certs in Lackhouse were simultaneous. If no more certs were requested after round one, we would have a similar situation as Lackhouse. But we are not. We are in a subsequent cert situation. I think the statue for being passed over provides the right of notification, especially for subsequent certs. Here's what I mean. For vets (or "preference eligibles") realistically, both things can happen at once if the pref eligible lands in the top 3 and SSA were to hire some with a lower NOR, that is both a bona fide consideration and being passed over. It seems to me that the vet has a right to be notified if she/he is not going to be considered again per the statute. Otherwise, they are circumventing the statute via semantics of being "passed over" versus a three-strike. Surely OPM (or SSA) wouldn't want to argue that a vet didn't have a right to notification because they were three-struck as opposed to "passed over" when OPM expressly gets notification of a vet being passed over when the certs are returned (as is outlined in the OPM Handbook). BTW, not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand while we are waiting. Edit: and maybe working on some issues for my appeal... |
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Post by gary on Mar 25, 2015 0:19:26 GMT -5
See Lackhouse v MSPB, 773 F. 2d 313 (Fed Cir 1985). Got it. There is a difference in a vet "being passed" over under the statute and being three-struck under the C.F.R. (applies to all applicants). Lackhouse argued they were incompatible. I don't think they are; I read them as complimentary, with more rights afforded under the statute for vets. Here, there are subsequent certs, which is what we are talking about. Lackhouse is just like the first round of SSA certs, which filled all of the vacancies at several geographical locations. The certs in Lackhouse were simultaneous. If no more certs were requested after round one, we would have a similar situation as Lackhouse. But we are not. We are in a subsequent cert situation. I think the statue for being passed over provides the right of notification, especially for subsequent certs. Here's what I mean. For vets (or "preference eligibles") realistically, both things can happen at once if the pref eligible lands in the top 3 and SSA were to hire some with a lower NOR, that is both a bona fide consideration and being passed over. It seems to me that the vet has a right to be notified if she/he is not going to be considered again per the statute. Otherwise, they are circumventing the statute via semantics of being "passed over" versus a three-strike. Surely OPM (or SSA) wouldn't want to argue that a vet didn't have a right to notification because they were three-struck as opposed to "passed over" when OPM expressly gets notification of a vet being passed over when the certs are returned (as is outlined in the OPM Handbook). BTW, not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand while we are waiting. Edit: and maybe working on some issues for my appeal... An agency "passes over" a preference eligible when it follows the procedure set forth in 5 USC § 3318(b)(1) to hire a lower scoring non-preference-eligible. If the agency does that 3 times a preference eligible may be left off subsequent certificates pursuant to 5 USC § 3317(b). This is all distinct from SSA's discretion not to consider for any position an already thrice-considered candidate. 5 CFR § 332.405. A preference eligible could amass three considerations for positions for which other preference eligibles or higher scoring non-preference-eligibles were hired without ever being passed over under 5 USC § 3318(b)(1). After receiving three considerations, the preference eligible would not have to be considered for subsequent positions any more than any other candidate who had been thrice-considered. |
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Post by Missundaztood on Mar 25, 2015 0:58:01 GMT -5
Got it. There is a difference in a vet "being passed" over under the statute and being three-struck under the C.F.R. (applies to all applicants). Lackhouse argued they were incompatible. I don't think they are; I read them as complimentary, with more rights afforded under the statute for vets. Here, there are subsequent certs, which is what we are talking about. Lackhouse is just like the first round of SSA certs, which filled all of the vacancies at several geographical locations. The certs in Lackhouse were simultaneous. If no more certs were requested after round one, we would have a similar situation as Lackhouse. But we are not. We are in a subsequent cert situation. I think the statue for being passed over provides the right of notification, especially for subsequent certs. Here's what I mean. For vets (or "preference eligibles") realistically, both things can happen at once if the pref eligible lands in the top 3 and SSA were to hire some with a lower NOR, that is both a bona fide consideration and being passed over. It seems to me that the vet has a right to be notified if she/he is not going to be considered again per the statute. Otherwise, they are circumventing the statute via semantics of being "passed over" versus a three-strike. Surely OPM (or SSA) wouldn't want to argue that a vet didn't have a right to notification because they were three-struck as opposed to "passed over" when OPM expressly gets notification of a vet being passed over when the certs are returned (as is outlined in the OPM Handbook). BTW, not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand while we are waiting. Edit: and maybe working on some issues for my appeal... An agency "passes over" a preference eligible when it follows the procedure set forth in 5 USC § 3318(b)(1) to hire a lower scoring non-preference-eligible. If the agency does that 3 times a preference eligible may be left off subsequent certificates pursuant to 5 USC § 3317(b). This is all distinct from SSA's discretion not to consider for any position an already thrice-considered candidate. 5 CFR § 332.405. A preference eligible could amass three considerations for positions for which other preference eligibles or higher scoring non-preference-eligibles were hired without ever being passed over under 5 USC § 3318(b)(1). After receiving three considerations, the preference eligible would not have to be considered for subsequent positions any more than any other candidate who had been thrice-considered. Maybe it all comes down to the First Amendment.  |
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Post by johnthornton on Mar 31, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5
Transfer list is still being worked. An offer for Fort Meyers went out today.
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Post by gary on Mar 31, 2015 16:52:11 GMT -5
Transfer list is still being worked. An offer for Fort Meyers went out today. Thanks for the intel. |
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Post by bartleby on Apr 1, 2015 9:12:09 GMT -5
I Just received word of an acceptance of transfer to the Charleston SC ODAR Office.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 1, 2015 13:44:19 GMT -5
I accepted a transfer to Jackson, MS last week. Two vacancies in Mount Pleasant now. Congrats!!!! Excellent news for you! |
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 1, 2015 13:49:06 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger. |
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Post by gary on Apr 1, 2015 13:52:04 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger. Sounds like DD will get to Jackson just in time for summer. Funky, would you care to enlighten us northerners as to what he can expect there in July and August? |
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Post by anotherfed on Apr 1, 2015 14:06:49 GMT -5
Sounds like DD will get to Jackson just in time for summer. Funky, would you care to enlighten us northerners as to what he can expect there in July and August? Jackson is where I came from. Jackson is to summer as Mount Pleasant is to winter, if that tells you anything. You don't have very good timing, do you? Congrats, glad you're going home. |
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 1, 2015 14:17:55 GMT -5
I accepted a transfer to Jackson, MS last week. Two vacancies in Mount Pleasant now. Wow. You must have been the perfect Marine if you were willing to do a hitch at Mt. Pleasant and then get "upgraded" to Jackson. Parris Island must have been a cake walk. Congrats on getting home. That is fantastic news. |
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 1, 2015 14:19:33 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger. Sounds like DD will get to Jackson just in time for summer. Funky, would you care to enlighten us northerners as to what he can expect there in July and August? You would faint from heat exhaustion just from reading the description. |
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Post by moopigsdad on Apr 1, 2015 14:44:28 GMT -5
I accepted a transfer to Jackson, MS last week. Two vacancies in Mount Pleasant now. Congrats devildog on your transfer, I know it was your dream to get back home. Good luck and enjoy the time back home. |
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Post by sealaw90 on Apr 1, 2015 14:56:11 GMT -5
Awesome news everyone. Glad to see folks getting home. Also glad you are sharing it with us.
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 1, 2015 15:52:01 GMT -5
Jackson Mississippi in the summer is not that bad. Provided you were born with gills to breathe in 99.9% humidity, dont mind sweating through every inch of your clothing and have a neverending supply of Boudreaux's Butt Paste.
Contrary to what is repeatedly seen on television, Mississippi got air conditioning around the same time as the rest of the civilised world. And Jackson is home to the Elite Cafe the purveyors of the best tamales east of the Brazos. So, it's no Tupleo, but its not all bad.
Welcome home DD. As per the Yankee Law, your return means we get to kick some northener that won't leave out so the quota stays balanced.
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Post by gary on Apr 1, 2015 16:47:05 GMT -5
Jackson Mississippi in the summer is not that bad. Provided you were born with gills to breathe in 99.9% humidity, dont mind sweating through every inch of your clothing and have a neverending supply of Boudreaux's Butt Paste. Contrary to what is repeatedly seen on television, Mississippi got air conditioning around the same time as the rest of the civilised world. And Jackson is home to the Elite Cafe the purveyors of the best tamales east of the Brazos. So, it's no Tupleo, but its not all bad. Welcome home DD. As per the Yankee Law, your return means we get to kick some northener that won't leave out so the quota stays balanced. 99.9% humidity? That's not as bad as I thought. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 17:16:55 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger.
Well it is April's Fools day and I see the fools are out in mass. At least now when Funky insults me I know about it a lot faster as he tells me the next time he sees me around the office.
As Funky knows, the average IQ of the judicial corps is about to go up a little higher in Mississippi as I accepted a transfer offer to Boise ID today. It's my wife's home state, so goodbye Tupelo and hello Canada (Boise, but it's almost the same thing)!
So now the IQ level should rise up to "borderline" intelligence at least? I will miss Hilltopper, Funky and the Tupelo office, but we still have a couple of months left to have a little fun around the office.
I may change my screen name to Funky West, but the last time I tried to hide my Tigerlaw past, some idiot called me out on it in the first post. Hmmm, who was that smelly fellow? 
The good news is that transfer are being worked again and the 3rd Cert is coming to a town near you, very soon!!! IMHO Tiger
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Post by hilltopper on Apr 1, 2015 17:44:36 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger.
Well it is April's Fools day and I see the fools are out in mass. At least now when Funky insults me I know about it a lot faster as he tells me the next time he sees me around the office.
As Funky knows, the average IQ of the judicial corps is about to go up a little higher in Mississippi as I accepted a transfer offer to Boise ID today. It's my wife's home state, so goodbye Tupelo and hello Canada (Boise, but it's almost the same thing)!
So now the IQ level should rise up to "borderline" intelligence at least? I will miss Hilltopper, Funky and the Tupelo office, but we still have a couple of months left to have a little fun around the office.
I may change my screen name to Funky West, but the last time I tried to hide my Tigerlaw past, some idiot called me out on it in the first post. Hmmm, who was that smelly fellow?
The good news is that transfer are being worked again and the 3rd Cert is coming to a town near you, very soon!!! IMHO Tiger
Congrats TigerLaw! As a Canadian born U.S. service brat, I take issue with your disparagement of my country of birth. I hear Boise, Alberta ... errr ... Idaho, is a quite hospitable place insofar as wide open spaces are concerned. But then again, any place where the potato is the most prominent citizen can't be all bad. Given your proclivity for pithy posts on the board, you'll fit right in as a common"tater." ht |
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Post by gary on Apr 1, 2015 17:48:13 GMT -5
Congratulations Tiger. Maybe the IQ of the judicial corps in Mississippi and Idaho will both go up as a result of your move.
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Post by hopefalj on Apr 1, 2015 17:48:30 GMT -5
Congrats DD. Seems to me an inordinate amount of the judicial brilliance recently added to the corps is centered in the Magnolia state now. Oh...wait. I forgot. They have to balance the scales for Tiger.
Well it is April's Fools day and I see the fools are out in mass. At least now when Funky insults me I know about it a lot faster as he tells me the next time he sees me around the office.
As Funky knows, the average IQ of the judicial corps is about to go up a little higher in Mississippi as I accepted a transfer offer to Boise ID today. It's my wife's home state, so goodbye Tupelo and hello Canada (Boise, but it's almost the same thing)!
So now the IQ level should rise up to "borderline" intelligence at least? I will miss Hilltopper, Funky and the Tupelo office, but we still have a couple of months left to have a little fun around the office.
I may change my screen name to Funky West, but the last time I tried to hide my Tigerlaw past, some idiot called me out on it in the first post. Hmmm, who was that smelly fellow?
The good news is that transfer are being worked again and the 3rd Cert is coming to a town near you, very soon!!! IMHO Tiger
Congrats! Have to say I'm a little jealous you get to head up there. One of our trainers raved about the office, and it's obviously in a great locale. The August/Srptember class appears to be highly mobile and getting elsewhere quickly despite some of the doom and gloom prognostications on transfers. |
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