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Post by lizdarcy on Apr 15, 2015 15:02:33 GMT -5
I don't see any reason to throw stones at anyone who expresses doubts about continuing in this process. We all weigh the pros and cons, they are different for everyone, all are legitimate. One of the nicest things about this forum is that almost everyone is non-judgmental and encouraging to others. I hope it stays that way.
Very specifically, my understanding of the current ALJ hiring practice at the NLRB is that no Board ALJ will be hired unless he or she has been an SSA ALJ for at least three months. I was told this by someone very high up at the Board a year ago. I don't think NORs have anything to do with it. This makes little sense to me, but that's the way it is. I might enjoy working as a Labor Board ALJ but fully accept that, if I am hired at SSA, I may be at SSA until the end of my career. It is something I have considered very carefully and it's okay with me. It's a personal decision and I won't knock anyone who comes out on it differently.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 15, 2015 15:15:15 GMT -5
Well, I clearly came off as judgmental and offended, or there would not be so many comments to that effect. I apologize ebb as that was not my intent. My intent was to point out how frustrating it is to see a specific job that many of us want with the strong possibility of people getting that opportunity who (1) do not really intend to stay in the job or (2) who do not really want the job for any reason other than to use as a stepping stone. But it is what it is, and I am ok with that. I get it. I understand using the SSA position to get to other agencies, really I do. But it does not make it any less frustrating to see it happen. So yes, there is a definite "self interest" in my comments about it. Hey, it's just my opinion and you know what they say about that.... And if I were in ebb's shoes, I am not sure what I would do.
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Post by Pixie on Apr 15, 2015 15:43:28 GMT -5
SRRatty: I read your comment when you first posted and I didn't find it judgmental or offensive. Your frustration was showing a bit, but that is OK. Pixie.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 15, 2015 15:51:40 GMT -5
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but, none of you know what the job is. Especially the insiders. They have a remote idea, but until you do this for a couple of years and realize the strain and pressure will you know the job. When I was a writer and when I was a senior attorney, come quitting time, I was done. No more ODAR until teh next morning or Monday. When I became a Judge, I suddenly realized this is a 24/7 job. You are contantly thinking about cases, researching some nuance, Editing some writer that did not have a clue, trying to move all of your cases contantly so none sit in any status for too long. Some pressure is from the Agency, but the rest is self-inflicted. We are professionals or we wouldn't be here. We attempt to succeed in everything we touch. Some may find the work easy, but I promise you if you do, you don't know what you are doing. We are the ones that sit in the hearing room with the 55 year old woman that recently lost her husband and is in constant pain without medical insurance (so we have no medical evidence of record) that is crying and you know that you are her only hope for the future and yet by being constrained by the Dicta of the Agency, you must deny her. Which way you gonna go? The rubber meets the road and the screeching sound is often reality entering a Bizarro World of ODAR. I hope you all get the chance to decide for yourself if it is to be or not. Just don't give up your soul. Peace and the Kitties say Hi!! You have really good points Bartleby, but I have yet to see any insider think the ALJ job is easy peasy. I think we just want more of a challenge from the current positions we hold. The ALJ position is NOT an easy job and you are absolutely right about so many nuances. Nuances that ALJ training (or decision writer training) will not teach and learning the nuances only comes with experience. Experience as a rep helps and experience as a writer helps. But it is not the same as actually doing the work you do. Totally agree. It is emotional work since you are dealing with people who are in the worst place of their lives for one reason or another, some due to their impairments, others due to a combination of poor choices, the economy, and/or criminal backgrounds. You care about your work and that is evident in all of your posts. Thank you for posting the "other" side of things. It is important for all to know the good and the bad about this job, BEFORE saying yes to an offer.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 15, 2015 15:52:50 GMT -5
SRRatty: I read your comment when you first posted and I didn't find it judgmental or offensive. Your frustration was showing a bit, but that is OK. Pixie. Thanks Pix. But I care about what people think. It matters to me.
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 15, 2015 15:57:56 GMT -5
I don't see any reason to throw stones at anyone who expresses doubts about continuing in this process. We all weigh the pros and cons, they are different for everyone, all are legitimate. One of the nicest things about this forum is that almost everyone is non-judgmental and encouraging to others. I hope it stays that way. Very specifically, my understanding of the current ALJ hiring practice at the NLRB is that no Board ALJ will be hired unless he or she has been an SSA ALJ for at least three months. I was told this by someone very high up at the Board a year ago. I don't think NORs have anything to do with it. This makes little sense to me, but that's the way it is. I might enjoy working as a Labor Board ALJ but fully accept that, if I am hired at SSA, I may be at SSA until the end of my career. It is something I have considered very carefully and it's okay with me. It's a personal decision and I won't knock anyone who comes out on it differently. NORs don't have anything to do with a transfer, you're right. They matter a lot with a direct hire by one of those agencies that hires rarely from the register and often for only one position. I'm grateful to be at this process long enough that I am not so emotionally invested in it as I once was and as others are now. I would still love the opportunity to have the job, and believe I would do well at it, but I can also keep doing what I do and be happy, if I am never selected.
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 15, 2015 18:51:25 GMT -5
I hope you didn't take my comments as disparaging either, ebb. It is very important to be honest with yourself and to examine whether your want to do the job that's potentially staring you in the face right now. So of course the question is valuable.
That said, the only thing that is constant is change. You just never know how things will pan out in the future.
Good luck with your decisions!
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Post by workdrone on Apr 15, 2015 19:44:25 GMT -5
Some may find the work easy, but I promise you if you do, you don't know what you are doing. (Bart's quote clipped to save space) I hope you all get the chance to decide for yourself if it is to be or not. Just don't give up your soul. Peace and the Kitties say Hi!! Cheer up Bart. It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Quite a few of us hit over 500 dispos and do well enough without thinking about it 24/7 or stress out about it as much as you make it sound. However, I do agree with Bart's point that this job is not for everyone. It can turn folks with the wrong personality into train wrecks. I know quite a few GS/Senior Attorneys/AAs who turned out to be outstanding ALJs. But on the other hand, I know at least one ex-writer in my office who became an ALJ, can't quite cut it and whines about how difficult the job is all the time and is an embarrassment to the rest of us. So to the current candidates, think carefully before you take the job. If you can't handle making lots of important decision at a reasonable pace without losing sleep, this job is not for you.
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Post by ibnlurkin on Apr 15, 2015 20:31:27 GMT -5
Early in my career... long before law school I took a series of State and City Civil Service exams. As I was called for various jobs I was compelled to hop on two occasions from one to another because income was a major concern with my young family.... As much as I liked the jobs and as reluctant as I was to leave I did feel... it was as much a part of the Civil Service Process as much as the elaborate hiring schemes were...Don't get me wrong I've since spent over ten years in the same State agency and the last 15 in private practice split between two firms...but I believe we've all "bought" a seat on this ride and have the right to keep it as far as we (and SSA/OPM) want to have it.. While no one should take a high level professional position lightly there is, in my opinion, no obligation to hold fast to a job you no longer want.(The world would be a much better place if all the people who are miserable in their jobs went and found one that made them happy or at least generally contented) If the OPM /SSA wanted a contractual relationship they could create one. If you haven t worked for a huge governmental bureaucracy you cant really have a taste for it until you do. So while I agree no one should take this or any professional level job casually... I think you can have doubts and end up being a decent, reasonably contented ALJ nonetheless. But if not..."to thine own self be true"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 21:58:55 GMT -5
So I just got on the cert, which is a surprise, as I had a tiny GAL, and am trying to decide if I want to go through with this process. I have a great, substantive job, and while I suspect that I would very much enjoy being an ALJ at, say, the NLRB, I'm much less sure that I would want to stay at SS for the long term. So I'm worried about gambling on leaving my current job for a possibility at an even harder to get ALJ job down the road. This is kind of a ridiculous and entitled question, but does anyone have any thoughts? ebb,
I tend to keep advice a little simpler than a great many folks on this board, so please forgive my brevity.
If you have a "great, substantive job" in private practice, then your choice is easy, keep your current job. Email Bob tomorrow and go back to your great substantive job and be happy. Taking an SSA ALJ hoping to transfer to another Agency (NLRB) that you believe compares to your "great substantive job" is a receipt for disaster and much unhappiness (such as Bartleby description of his job and we have the same job, at least I thought we did???) and life is too short. IMHO
Tiger
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jcc
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Post by jcc on Apr 15, 2015 22:30:07 GMT -5
Building on tiger's simplicity, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." More so when you're banking on those two birds in the bush giving you directions to another bush with hopefully even more birds.
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Post by lizdarcy on Apr 15, 2015 22:33:30 GMT -5
oh, dear -- I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular or commenting on any one response in particular. I wanted to express my opinion in general that everyone should be able to ask a question here with the expectation that it will get an impartial reception. I once posted something rather foolish because I was stressed out about this process and still appreciate the kindness of (relative) strangers who made me feel better at that moment.
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Post by Pixie on Apr 15, 2015 23:20:05 GMT -5
oh, dear -- I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular or commenting on any one response in particular. I wanted to express my opinion in general that everyone should be able to ask a question here with the expectation that it will get an impartial reception. I once posted something rather foolish because I was stressed out about this process and still appreciate the kindness of (relative) strangers who made me feel better at that moment. You are a very kind and gentle person; worry not. Nothing is perceived as negative toward you. I see you as more of a fan of Verdi (La traviata) than, say, Wagner. Or, perhaps, on a lighter note, Vivaldi? The 18th century portrait gives you away. Most revealing. Pixie.
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Post by lizdarcy on Apr 16, 2015 8:14:37 GMT -5
Vivaldi yes!! Also Verdi, any kind of chamber music, Beethoven, Bach and Locatelli. I learned about Locatelli's music from listening to "Musical Evenings with the Captain," so I appreciated the recent quote about Tom Pullings on the board. My major in college was 18th and 19th century British history and literature.
I thought about it for a while when I first started posting and decided that it's okay for people to know that I am from New York and to share a few other things about myself.
I appreciate the diversity of Jamaica Avenue, too. The area around the ODAR office is an amazing place full of life and energy. If you work around there (which I do a few days every month) you get to know everyone and savor the reality of that scene.
Thanks for being a great moderator.
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Post by bartleby on Apr 16, 2015 8:19:56 GMT -5
Workdrone, I have said it before and I say it again, anyone that thinks this job is easy doesn't know what they are doing, and I stand by that. I appreciate the dig, "But on the other hand, I know at least one ex-writer in my office who became an ALJ, can't quite cut it and whines about how difficult the job is all the time and is an embarrassment to the rest of us." Trust me, I used to write for you and your reputation is not quite what you would imagine it to be. I will stand my remand rate against yours anytime. This isn't the first time you have taken pot shots at me and I have put up with it, but no more. I am doing an excellent job as an ALJ and am only an embarrassment to someone that doesn't care about the process.
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Post by mamaru on Apr 16, 2015 8:37:18 GMT -5
Hmmm - maybe we need an intervention somewhere!
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 16, 2015 8:40:37 GMT -5
Mom and Dad can argue. It doesn't mean they don't love eachother.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 8:42:49 GMT -5
Bart, I didn't know about whom workdrone was speaking of and don't know how many of us on the board would have known, but if you guys are in the same office, boy oh boy, that must make for some interesting exchanges in the break room. (By the way Funky, meet me in the break room at high noon, I have a bone to pick with you .) But I meant no disrespect towards you in my comments, just a joke about "the sky is falling" viewpoint you express occasionally, but never frequently (I'm still in training, so cut me some slack on the use of RFC terms). IMHO Tiger
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Post by Missundaztood on Apr 16, 2015 8:58:54 GMT -5
oh, dear -- I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular or commenting on any one response in particular. I wanted to express my opinion in general that everyone should be able to ask a question here with the expectation that it will get an impartial reception. I once posted something rather foolish because I was stressed out about this process and still appreciate the kindness of (relative) strangers who made me feel better at that moment. You are a very kind and gentle person; worry not. Nothing is perceived as negative toward you. I see you as more of a fan of Verdi (La traviata) than, say, Wagner. Or, perhaps, on a lighter note, Vivaldi? The 18th century portrait gives you away. Most revealing. Pixie. I am changing my avatar.
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Post by cheesy on Apr 16, 2015 9:13:52 GMT -5
I should've read that Tom Pullings quote before I pinned on Lieutenant Commander.... As true today as it was in the days before Secretary Daniels revoked the rum ration.
Time to go listen to some Vivaldi before heading into court...
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