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Post by gary on Apr 18, 2015 11:06:03 GMT -5
Northbend -- Could you expand on that a bit? If I am reading what you said correctly, some group has likely reviewed those available for each location and, depending in part on how many slots there are to fill, picked who will get a call for a face-to-face interview. Is that correct? Any insight on how long the process takes from this point forward? I have another job opportunity, but there's been no written offer and acceptance yet. I expect that to happen this coming week. I went ahead and submitted the documents to ODAR on Friday to remain in contention, but I suspect I am going to reach a final commitment point for the other post before I even know if I'm a contender at ODAR. Also, the email from ODAR says "current or former federal civilian employees may be eligible for a higher base salary." Is there any official criteria for eligibility? Thanks much. Our intel is they will be doing the next interviews the week of May 11. Those would onviously not be for positions starting May 18, so the earliest those interviewees could start (if hired) would be the next class which we have heard may have a June 29 starting date. The Hiring Committee would need to make its decisions and then Bob and Mellinda would have to make the offer calls. If they followed their usual timeline they would give hirees at least 4 weeks' notice, suggesting offers completed by the close of business on 5/29. That might be doable depending on how much deliberation time the Hiring Committee needs and how long offers/acceptances take. As to your pay question, see "Setting Pay for a Newly-Appointed ALJ" at this link: www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/administrative-law-judge-pay-system/
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Post by mamaru on Apr 18, 2015 11:24:29 GMT -5
If you have not been interviewed by SSA, you will not get an offer next week.
The group he referenced decides who gets an offer, based on the NOR, interview, and background check/references. If you are on a cert, you eventually will be scheduled for an interview by two judges in Falls Church, not the group who makes the decision. ODAR will start on the paperwork you submitted, checking references and so forth, but that sometimes takes weeks given the number of applicants. It does not seem like they have started scheduling interviews for people appearing on this round of certs for the first time. Bottom line, you will not get an offer until after the interview and after the background/reference check has progressed to the point they feel as if they can make a judgment call.
As for timeframe? Some on the Board who interviewed last summer or last fall or after the first of the year are still waiting and hoping for offers.
If you are on a cert, you are a contender. The frustration of the process is that it is very difficult to assess what you are up against. You know your NOR but you don't know the NOR's of the other candidates slated for your locations. You don't know how vet preference applies in any one location. You won't know the outcome of the interview: "highly recommended," "recommended," or "not recommended." You won't know for sure what your references say or if there is something in your background that the Agency thinks is justification for eliminating you. There is a lot of uncertainty.
The base salary issue is the topic of other threads. Lots of good information. Worth looking at if you want to keep this option in play.
I realize this post comes across as being discouraging. It's not my intent to get batdog - or anyone else - to drop out of this race to improve my chances. But I think someone in that situation should be aware of how difficult it is to predict whether or not you will actually land a job with SSA, much less when or where, even once you are on certs.
Good luck batdog!
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Post by batdog on Apr 18, 2015 11:46:34 GMT -5
71stretch, gary and mamaru -- I appreciate the information. It seems fairly obvious that I should accept the position I've been offered and drop out of the running at ODAR ... I wish I could combine the subject-matter of the one with the geographic location of the other, but that's wishful thinking. I appreciate the pay-rate information, too. It looks like the decision is discretionary and up to the good graces of the agency. I left the federal government for several years, but when I was in it I was at a higher pay rate. I guess I will give the HR folks at the agency a copy of my SF-50 and see what happens.
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Post by gary on Apr 18, 2015 11:58:15 GMT -5
71stretch, gary and mamaru -- I appreciate the information. It seems fairly obvious that I should accept the position I've been offered and drop out of the running at ODAR ... I wish I could combine the subject-matter of the one with the geographic location of the other, but that's wishful thinking. I appreciate the pay-rate information, too. It looks like the decision is discretionary and up to the good graces of the agency. I left the federal government for several years, but when I was in it I was at a higher pay rate. I guess I will give the HR folks at the agency a copy of my SF-50 and see what happens. It does appear to be discretionary with the agency. However, It seems from the reports I've seen that SSA exercises its discretion to pay the higher salary based on past government service. I don't have any idea how your agency exercises its discretion. All that said, you would be taking a big chance if you passed up an offer in hand for the possibility SSA might hire you. I would be making the same decision as you, were I fortunate enough to be in your position. Good luck!
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Post by privateatty on Apr 18, 2015 12:32:36 GMT -5
My mentor, who is retired, called to say that it turned out the person calling him was his neighbor and they had a lovely chat. But was it about me? Probably, but indirectly. References need not be in the direct form you envision. And let's assume that you were only addressed perfunctorily (which would be a stretch), I doubt that that would be a bad thing.
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Post by gary on Apr 18, 2015 13:17:24 GMT -5
batdog, since you've made your decision, it would be a great favor to the rest of us if you'd drop Bob an email right away letting him know so they can take you out of consideration in case they haven't already received word from OPM.
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Post by mamaru on Apr 18, 2015 14:56:29 GMT -5
My mentor, who is retired, called to say that it turned out the person calling him was his neighbor and they had a lovely chat. But was it about me? Probably, but indirectly. References need not be in the direct form you envision. And let's assume that you were only addressed perfunctorily (which would be a stretch), I doubt that that would be a bad thing. You are absolutely right - that question was totally tongue in cheek. I agree that any type of personal connection, however peripheral, can help put you in a positive glow. I just thought it was funny that the two of them happened to live in the same subdivision several states and over 1000 miles from me. How random!
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Post by privateatty on Apr 18, 2015 16:24:45 GMT -5
Probably, but indirectly. References need not be in the direct form you envision. And let's assume that you were only addressed perfunctorily (which would be a stretch), I doubt that that would be a bad thing. You are absolutely right - that question was totally tongue in cheek. I agree that any type of personal connection, however peripheral, can help put you in a positive glow. I just thought it was funny that the two of them happened to live in the same subdivision several states and over 1000 miles from me. How random! Things get alot less random the farther you go.
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 18, 2015 17:02:30 GMT -5
71stretch, gary and mamaru -- I appreciate the information. It seems fairly obvious that I should accept the position I've been offered and drop out of the running at ODAR ... I wish I could combine the subject-matter of the one with the geographic location of the other, but that's wishful thinking. I appreciate the pay-rate information, too. It looks like the decision is discretionary and up to the good graces of the agency. I left the federal government for several years, but when I was in it I was at a higher pay rate. I guess I will give the HR folks at the agency a copy of my SF-50 and see what happens. Batdog I am more than a little perplexed at your situation. As I understand from your prior posts, you used your vet prefer to take the exam in October and got on the register in January with a very nice score (84.xx). Sometime soon after you were apparently certed for some unidentified agency officed in DC and presumably interviewed with them. Then they gave you some sort of unofficial offer, which you accepted, and they told you they sent your acceptance in to OPM. Subsequently, you have met with some of the judges in the office and they have scheduled some "events" for you. Yet, you have yet to get any official documentation of your hire. They apparently did not tell you the salary you would be receiving and OPM has apparently kept you on the register since you made the odar certs. I get all that right? Now you wonder what to do? I think you should pick up the bat phone and call the person that hired you and let them know things have gone terribly wrong. You see, the government does not do unofficial offers of employment or promotion etc. Sure, you may get a call with the offer but it will be followed with the paperwork pretty quickly. It's a rather large no no for a government official to make an unofficial offer or promise of employment or promotion. Gives a helluva cause of action for the offeree if it falls thru. While you are at it, let em know that offers of government employment should include a start date and notice of salary. Then, call Bob at SSA (I can give you the number) and let him know OPM screwed up (he won't be surprised). That you have accepted an offer from another agency and should have been removed from the register. To do otherwise is disrespectful to your new employer that spent funds, thought and effort selecting you and is now proceeding thinking you are on board. It also hurts all those behind you on the odar certs. Just my thoughts.
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 18, 2015 18:22:49 GMT -5
Wow - way to cull and summarize the evidence, Funky!
Totally true, though, batdog. If there was an offer & acceptance with another agency, your name should have been immediately removed from the register and should not have come up on the ODAR certs. You're actually not eligible after you've accepted employment from the register.
OPM, we have a problem....
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Post by prescient on Apr 18, 2015 20:48:14 GMT -5
I may be mis-remembering, but I thought way back when this process started OHMA made offers to some of the highest scorers on the cert, who accepted. But then there was weird delay between the acceptance and the formal paperwork. During the delay, ssa made offers to some of these same high scorers who accepted and told OHMA thanks but no thanks. No?
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 18, 2015 21:06:31 GMT -5
I think you are right Pres. I didn't make any Omaha certs and had forgotten they did the conditional offer thing. As I understand it, their offer was conditioned upon the offeree passing the background check. Perhaps that is what's going on with batdog.
But, I'm still pretty sure those conditional offers included at least an idea of a start date, the location and the salary.
Maybe tigerlaw or agilitymom can enlighten us. Or batdog could clear it all up.
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Post by batdog on Apr 18, 2015 23:01:13 GMT -5
I apologize if I am not using the proper terminology. I got a call after an interview asking if I was still interested and I said yes. My understanding is that then the cert went back to OPM and they did whatever they do and gave their OK on Tuesday, which was after the ODAR notices were sent. That's when HR sent me forms to complete and I returned them on Wednesday. HR said it usually takes 3-4 days to do the background check, which runs beyond the start of the next pay period on Sunday (right now). That makes the projected start date May 3. Before then there's a training event I need to attend. Had everything been completed to bring me on board starting this Sunday I would have attended the event as an employee. Since it didn't, I'll be attending on invitational orders. As you can see, there are still moving pieces. That's why I haven't dropped out of the ODAR consideration just yet. Is that any clearer of an explanation?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 23:29:41 GMT -5
I may be mis-remembering, but I thought way back when this process started OHMA made offers to some of the highest scorers on the cert, who accepted. But then there was weird delay between the acceptance and the formal paperwork. During the delay, ssa made offers to some of these same high scorers who accepted and told OHMA thanks but no thanks. No? Hilltopper, Agilitymom (I think) and I all got a call from OMHA and Funky hit part of it on the head. OMHA does it is different from ODAR. It was a an offer of an offer, we would like to offer you the job, but first we have to have OPM's blessing to make it an official offer. Fingerprints were already sent in, but it was very close to the interview and pre-offer. Anyway, two days later Bob called and I said yes to the offer and received a letter emailed to me that day of the offer and salary. Tiger
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 23:40:26 GMT -5
Batdog, if you are a 10 point vet and passed the OMHA's (or whatever agency) interview to get an offer, you will get at least a "recommended" from your ODAR interview. As a 10 point vet, you WILL be at the top of your cities as ODAR has hired a lot of 5/10 pointers already. With a "recommended" from your ODAR interview and the only 10 pointer as the top scorer in your city, you will get an offer from ODAR. That's my opinion, but trust me, that doesn't mean much. But as a 10 pointer myself, I can clearly see the easier path I had to this job now that I'm on this side of the process. IMHO Tiger
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 19, 2015 1:03:17 GMT -5
Only it sounds like batdog hasn't interviewed for ODAR yet, so it's a little different than Tigerlaw, AgilityMom and Hilltopper - I think they all had ODAR interviews before they got offers from OMHA. AND they hadn't sent back paperwork and had background checks and been scheduled for training at OMHA, I think.
If batdog hasn't been interviewed yet (which is they way it sounds), the rumor is the next ODAR interviews are the week of May 11 - a week after the report date for the other agency.
Although TL's right that with the scenario that's unfolding, batdog has an excellent chance of being hired on the first round of offers after his interview, and if he has a very narrow GAL, the offer is likely to be in a place that he really wants. But if he has a wide-open GAL, you do have to remember that an ODAR offer could be for any city in it, regardless of stated preferences. If they offer you a city, it's that city or nothing till the next round of offers, there's no saying "I'd rather not do city A, what else to you have" to ODAR.
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 19, 2015 8:25:59 GMT -5
Only it sounds like batdog hasn't interviewed for ODAR yet, so it's a little different than Tigerlaw, AgilityMom and Hilltopper - I think they all had ODAR interviews before they got offers from OMHA. AND they hadn't sent back paperwork and had background checks and been scheduled for training at OMHA, I think. If batdog hasn't been interviewed yet (which is they way it sounds), the rumor is the next ODAR interviews are the week of May 11 - a week after the report date for the other agency. Although TL's right that with the scenario that's unfolding, batdog has an excellent chance of being hired on the first round of offers after his interview, and if he has a very narrow GAL, the offer is likely to be in a place that he really wants. But if he has a wide-open GAL, you do have to remember that an ODAR offer could be for any city in it, regardless of stated preferences. If they offer you a city, it's that city or nothing till the next round of offers, there's no saying "I'd rather not do city A, what else to you have" to ODAR. Additionally, they could choose not to hire for Batdog's cities at all Orland Park has been on every cert and no hires there have been made. There are several 10pt vets sitting on the register right now who have been interviewed and are still waiting. Tigerlaw's results might not be indicative of yours.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 19, 2015 8:33:10 GMT -5
Only it sounds like batdog hasn't interviewed for ODAR yet, so it's a little different than Tigerlaw, AgilityMom and Hilltopper - I think they all had ODAR interviews before they got offers from OMHA. AND they hadn't sent back paperwork and had background checks and been scheduled for training at OMHA, I think. If batdog hasn't been interviewed yet (which is they way it sounds), the rumor is the next ODAR interviews are the week of May 11 - a week after the report date for the other agency. Although TL's right that with the scenario that's unfolding, batdog has an excellent chance of being hired on the first round of offers after his interview, and if he has a very narrow GAL, the offer is likely to be in a place that he really wants. But if he has a wide-open GAL, you do have to remember that an ODAR offer could be for any city in it, regardless of stated preferences. If they offer you a city, it's that city or nothing till the next round of offers, there's no saying "I'd rather not do city A, what else to you have" to ODAR. Additionally, they could choose not to hire for Batdog's cities at all Orland Park has been on every cert and no hires there have been made. There are several 10pt vets sitting on the register right now who have been interviewed and are still waiting. Tigerlaw's results might not be indicative of yours. Gaidin's point is very important here. SEVERAL 10 point vets were interviewed on the FIRST certificate and are still waiting on offers. Being a 10 point vet is not a straight shot to an offer.
A bird in the hand.... And as luckylady pointed out.... if you have not interviewed with SSA yet, you will not interview until the week of May 11-15th and that is IF they decide to hire in your cities. Take the case of ok1956, she was on a cert but her interview was not until much later after they had a round of hiring. So there are many things to consider batdog and if I were in your shoes with an offer from an agency, I would not make waiting to see if you get another offer the contingency for your acceptance.
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 19, 2015 8:35:19 GMT -5
I apologize if I am not using the proper terminology. I got a call after an interview asking if I was still interested and I said yes. My understanding is that then the cert went back to OPM and they did whatever they do and gave their OK on Tuesday, which was after the ODAR notices were sent. That's when HR sent me forms to complete and I returned them on Wednesday. HR said it usually takes 3-4 days to do the background check, which runs beyond the start of the next pay period on Sunday (right now). That makes the projected start date May 3. Before then there's a training event I need to attend. Had everything been completed to bring me on board starting this Sunday I would have attended the event as an employee. Since it didn't, I'll be attending on invitational orders. As you can see, there are still moving pieces. That's why I haven't dropped out of the ODAR consideration just yet. Is that any clearer of an explanation? Definitely clearer. Thanks. Still, if they have you set up to attend training pretty soon and start May 3, I'd think you are definitely in there and you need to call Bob and withdraw from odar. But that's just my opinion. If you are comfortable having accepted their offer and letting them obviously rely on that and then backing out that's up to you. Good luck with whatever route you take.
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Post by batdog on Apr 19, 2015 8:56:44 GMT -5
I expect this will all get resolved in the coming week. In a perfect world, the timing of all the options would align so you could weigh them collectively and choose. Unfortunately, life seldom takes the perfect path. The timing of decisions that had to be made with respect to the job I'm in now, the ALJ position I expect to finalize this coming week, and the potential opportunities at ODAR were all on different timelines with different fish-or-cut-bait points. I think it will all work out OK in the end, but not without some Maalox moments along the way.
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