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Post by gary on Jun 10, 2015 14:10:28 GMT -5
It is discretionary, but if an agency asks for all the three strikers it has considered to be eliminated from future certs, that makes it way less unlikely that they would exercise their discretion to give a particular person another look. It would be an all or nothing deal- leave them all on, and we will decide what to do with each one, or leave them all off until we tell you otherwise. I don't think it is all or nothing - I think they actually give a specific list of names that they have considered and don't want re-sent. OPM has no way of knowing who got three considerations unless SSA gives them names (or at least it would be very hard to figure out). If I recall my numerous rejection letters correctly, there were clear distinctions between "we did not get down to your score in consideration" and "we considered you but did not select you." Assuming the wording still differs based on whether you were actually in contention for a slot, you might be able to know that you did not get considered yet by the wording of the rejection. Let me see if I still have those... EDIT: Hmmm. I cannot find any evidence I am correct about this. I seem certain in my memory that I can recall being changed from unconsidered to unselected, but the assortment of letters I have going back to 2010 all say, "We are sorry to advise that you were not selected for the Administrative Law Judge position with the Social Security Administration, Office of Disability Adjudication and Review. Thank you for your patience during this process." I do not have my earliest ones because I used a work e-mail at an old job. So, maybe, ignore my entire post; sorry. Unless someone else can corroborate? SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 10, 2015 15:42:04 GMT -5
I don't think it is all or nothing - I think they actually give a specific list of names that they have considered and don't want re-sent. OPM has no way of knowing who got three considerations unless SSA gives them names (or at least it would be very hard to figure out). If I recall my numerous rejection letters correctly, there were clear distinctions between "we did not get down to your score in consideration" and "we considered you but did not select you." Assuming the wording still differs based on whether you were actually in contention for a slot, you might be able to know that you did not get considered yet by the wording of the rejection. Let me see if I still have those... EDIT: Hmmm. I cannot find any evidence I am correct about this. I seem certain in my memory that I can recall being changed from unconsidered to unselected, but the assortment of letters I have going back to 2010 all say, "We are sorry to advise that you were not selected for the Administrative Law Judge position with the Social Security Administration, Office of Disability Adjudication and Review. Thank you for your patience during this process." I do not have my earliest ones because I used a work e-mail at an old job. So, maybe, ignore my entire post; sorry. Unless someone else can corroborate? SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports. I'm not confident that they do. OPM does pretty much what SSA wants them to do. SSA, after all, is their biggest client, by far. But fine checking each report? Hmmm. Now I am much more sure that Puzzle Palace is following the law given the history of litigation that surrounds ALJ hiring. After all, the "new" Cert by City requirement grew out of the general unhappiness with the Palace's penchant for using the three strike rule to get to folks whom they otherwise couldn't have touched.
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Post by gary on Jun 10, 2015 15:54:05 GMT -5
SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports. I'm not confident that they do. OPM does pretty much what SSA wants them to do. SSA, after all, is their biggest client, by far. But fine checking each report? Hmmm. Now I am much more sure that Puzzle Palace is following the law given the history of litigation that surrounds ALJ hiring. After all, the "new" Cert by City requirement grew out of the general unhappiness with the Palace's penchant for using the three strike rule to get to folks whom they otherwise couldn't have touched. I disagree.
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Post by Propmaster on Jun 10, 2015 16:22:27 GMT -5
I don't think it is all or nothing - I think they actually give a specific list of names that they have considered and don't want re-sent. OPM has no way of knowing who got three considerations unless SSA gives them names (or at least it would be very hard to figure out). If I recall my numerous rejection letters correctly, there were clear distinctions between "we did not get down to your score in consideration" and "we considered you but did not select you." Assuming the wording still differs based on whether you were actually in contention for a slot, you might be able to know that you did not get considered yet by the wording of the rejection. Let me see if I still have those... EDIT: Hmmm. I cannot find any evidence I am correct about this. I seem certain in my memory that I can recall being changed from unconsidered to unselected, but the assortment of letters I have going back to 2010 all say, "We are sorry to advise that you were not selected for the Administrative Law Judge position with the Social Security Administration, Office of Disability Adjudication and Review. Thank you for your patience during this process." I do not have my earliest ones because I used a work e-mail at an old job. So, maybe, ignore my entire post; sorry. Unless someone else can corroborate? SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports. Thanks for the info. So, do you think SSA just says "don't send anyone we've looked at thrice?" I still find it more likely they identify those they do not want to have re-certed.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 10, 2015 16:31:27 GMT -5
I'm not confident that they do. OPM does pretty much what SSA wants them to do. SSA, after all, is their biggest client, by far. But fine checking each report? Hmmm. Now I am much more sure that Puzzle Palace is following the law given the history of litigation that surrounds ALJ hiring. After all, the "new" Cert by City requirement grew out of the general unhappiness with the Palace's penchant for using the three strike rule to get to folks whom they otherwise couldn't have touched. I disagree. Well, you may have superior knowledge that for any number or legitimate reasons, you don't want to share. I certainly will bow to knowledge vs. opinion or conjecture. However, I am a nine year student of this process and an eight year reader of this Board. The wealth of information on this Board about OPM, SSA and hiring in general is impressive. Notwithstanding all of this, I believe that OPM is trying to do the "right" thing. However, defending the ALJ Corps against Agency interference has never been its strong suit--or any suit at all.
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Post by carsondaily on Jun 10, 2015 17:03:28 GMT -5
Thanks Propmaster for sharing another point of view - which I wouldn't label either "negative" or "positive." I haven't read much from others who - like me- have been on 3 certs now. It's disheartening. It doesn't feel like disrespect but it's definitely unsettling to be so far into the process and yet so uninformed about my prospects. It's the nature of such an enormous undertaking, I tell myself. And like you, I remind myself that I'm already in a very nice position that I've worked hard to achieve and will enjoy for some time to come. And there's the unavoidable fact that many who are so qualified to get this far will nonetheless not be hired. SO I'll keep taking it one day (cert?) at a time and know that I remain in good company even if I don't know all of you whose phones aren't ringing either.
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Post by gary on Jun 10, 2015 18:33:43 GMT -5
SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports. Thanks for the info. So, do you think SSA just says "don't send anyone we've looked at thrice?" I still find it more likely they identify those they do not want to have re-certed. This has been the subject of conjecture on this Board. I think it is established that at some point during the life of the prior register SSA told OPM not to include people with three considerations. There is no bar I'm aware of to SSA doing this on an individual basis. I don't think they will have done this yet. Instead, I think they will not consider people with three considerations until they get to a vacancy they want to hire one of them in. Then they will consider and hire that person.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 10, 2015 19:11:14 GMT -5
prop, its hard to not feel its personal. But on this point, I agree with gary. Yes, they know who you are. But you are one of a score or two. Think of it as the Twilight Zone. Other Forces have to align for you to get hired. During the Azdell litigation SSA cried uncle and OPM allowed them a special hire (2001). Again, all of those like yourself need to have faith and think out of the box.
Raise your score. Think other agencies. Leave it and let it come to you.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 11, 2015 1:17:30 GMT -5
SSA has to return a report on each cert to OPM. See bottom of page 1 and all of page 2 of the following form: www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf39.pdfFrom those reports, OPM can tell which candidate got however many considerations from SSA, and even from which cert and which top 3 each consideration came. In doing its job of making sure the hiring from its register is done properly I have no doubt OPM checks each of the reports. Thanks for the info. So, do you think SSA just says "don't send anyone we've looked at thrice?" I still find it more likely they identify those they do not want to have re-certed. I think that list, if it exists, has the same names as OPM's list gleaned from the reports would have. Once they started leaving off the people they had considered three times, I don't think we ever heard from anyone who knew they had been three struck yet was turning up on the cert. I think the list is pretty much everybody for whatever reasons but they don't want to look at again at least for a while. Last time around it gave them the opportunity to look at some people who never would have turned up on the large single cert otherwise. With the new mechanics of how the lists are made up, this whole process may not happen again for a while this time we'll just have to wait-and-see.
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Post by thankful1 on Jun 16, 2015 15:50:23 GMT -5
I am thinking either a reference did me in or I am a terrible interviewee! Oh well, life goes on... glad for this thread. Much needed catharsis. And therin lies at least part of the problem. There is no way to know, which results in every reason to engage in rank speculation that does nothing to help you get the job, or get some measure of closure. Those who got dinged earlier at least have some idea of what caused it, and can try to address the perceived deficiency. Those in purgatory now can only hope they get picked up, in which case all the self-flagellation was worthless, or, they won't get picked up, in which case the self-flagellation will STILL be worthless because there is no way to know what the real problem was.
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Post by HallmarkFan on Jun 23, 2015 4:46:13 GMT -5
prop, its hard to not feel its personal. But on this point, I agree with gary. Yes, they know who you are. But you are one of a score or two. Think of it as the Twilight Zone. Other Forces have to align for you to get hired. During the Azdell litigation SSA cried uncle and OPM allowed them a special hire (2001). Again, all of those like yourself need to have faith and think out of the box. Raise your score. Think other agencies. Leave it and let it come to you. Totally agree with this thought.
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