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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 12:27:33 GMT -5
I would love to hear from anyone that has voluntarily bowed out of the process, or at least turned down an opportunity with SSA (or seriously considered it, but went ahead anyway). I had put all of this ALJ stuff in the back of my mind after I got my original NOR in March 2014, moved on to better things in my life, and then a few weeks ago it all came back with the notice that my appeal had been granted, then the call to interview with SSA, and then finding out I may have a pretty good shot at getting a position for a location for which I have been granted a priority consideration. But the fact is I don't want to work for SSA, and the prospect of working at SSA for a few years with the possibility of leaping to another agency no longer wins the cost/benefit analysis. So do I fly out and interview anyway just for the experience of it all, wait to get an offer, and turn it down? Or do I bow out now so as not to waste others' time and the taxpayer money on flying me out?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:17:10 GMT -5
I didnt reject the offer from SSA, but I'd like to give you my three cents (SSA adjusted inflation!).
Tough question to answer. I think it should be a rhetorical one. The initial application process is time-consuming and you obviously put some thought and effort into it. You also felt an unjustice was done with your application and appealed. What changed between then and now (I don't want to work for SSA)? When you answer that question and figure out what is the core reason(s) you dont want to work for SSA, you will know what to do.
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 13:23:34 GMT -5
I am going to add that there is something about the feverish nature of this board that is somewhat intoxicating, and I think it drives people that come here to want to pursue the ALJ job even though it isn't what they really want at all. Something akin to the toy-that-a-child-doesn't-care-about-until-another-child-wants-to-play-with-it syndrome. Or maybe it is just the Disneyland line syndrome (people at Disneyland see a line, and get in the line without any idea/care what is at the end of the line. Or perhaps the famous Stanley Milgram experiment about how people join crowds for no readily apparent reason.
(He tested this by having a group of people stop in a busy street and look up to the six-floor of an adjacent office block where nothing whatsoever was happening (Milgram et al., 1969). What he found was that 4% of passersby would stop to join a single person gazing up, but 40% would stop if there were 15 people already there. On top of this fully 86% of passersby would at least look up to see what all the fuss was about.)
So imagine the trap when a passerby sees hundreds of great folks on this board all staring up to the top of the SSA Skyline Tower dreaming of an SSA ALJ job . . . . Anyway, that seems to be me, and I need to snap out of it.
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Post by Gaidin on Jul 23, 2015 13:24:58 GMT -5
If you're going to turn it down and you know that then you should bow out and save everybody else the trouble. If you are offered the position and then decline there is no guarantee that they will be able to offer your created vacancy to another person in this round of hiring.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:28:28 GMT -5
Flip the coin over.
Imagine you are the employer. You are under tremendous pressure and greatly need to fill a desperately desired position. You have interviewed dozens of candidates. You have spent umpteen tens of thousands of dollars and innumerable hours of time going over candidates and narrowed it down to a few possibilities. You spend more thousands of dollars and hours to set up an interview with a candidate. He does very well. Finally you get to fill the position and extend an offer.
The candidate looks at you, smiles, shrugs and says "Naaaaah, I was only fooling around just to see what I could get. Never wanted the job. Sorry."
What would you do, how would you view this, as the hiring employer?
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 13:30:22 GMT -5
You also felt an unjustice was done with your application and appealed. What changed between then and now (I don't want to work for SSA)? Yes, you are right. I have never wanted to work for SSA, and was only in the process for the slim chance to work at a particular handful of agencies. But after I appealed, my job status changed so that I can now bring home twice the bacon for the same amount of work with even better financial prospects ahead, so even a temporary SSA gig no longer wins the cost/benefit analysis.
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Post by Gaidin on Jul 23, 2015 13:31:28 GMT -5
You also felt an unjustice was done with your application and appealed. What changed between then and now (I don't want to work for SSA)? Yes, you are right. I have never wanted to work for SSA, and was only in the process for the slim chance to work at a particular handful of agencies. But after I appealed, my job status changed so that I can now bring home twice the bacon for the same amount of work with even better financial prospects ahead, so even a temporary SSA gig no longer wins the cost/benefit analysis. ALJFAQ is that you? Have you returned like the prodigal son?
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 13:32:31 GMT -5
Flip the coin over. Imagine you are the employer. You are under tremendous pressure and greatly need to fill a desperately desired position. You have interviewed dozens of candidates. You have spent umpteen tens of thousands of dollars and innumerable hours of time going over candidates and narrowed it down to a few possibilities. You spend more thousands of dollars and hours to set up an interview with a candidate. He does very well. Finally you get to fill the position and extend an offer. The candidate looks at you, smiles, shrugs and says "Naaaaah, I was only fooling around just to see what I could get. Never wanted the job. Sorry." What would you do, how would you view this, as the hiring employer? True, but in my defense, I have just now come to the crossroads of wasting someone else's time. Because if I got an offer from one of a few other agencies, I would probably take it. So the only waste would be in interviewing with SSA.
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Post by gary on Jul 23, 2015 13:33:13 GMT -5
It sounds like you don't want the job. If that's true, it's easy:
1) Let Bob know you're not interested in being an SSA ALJ; and
2) Don't interview.
That way you don't waste your time, you don't waste their time, you don't waste the government's money, and you don't potentially screw up the hiring of someone who does want the job.
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 13:38:42 GMT -5
It sounds like you don't want the job. If that's true, it's easy: 1) Let Bob know you're not interested in being an SSA ALJ; and 2) Don't interview. That way you don't waste your time, you don't waste their time, you don't waste the government's money, and you don't potentially screw up the hiring of someone who does want the job. Gary - I totally agree and am totally leaning far in this direction, if not already made my mind up on it, but thought I would pitch it to the board to see what valuable pearls of wisdom might get pitched back for me to consider before I actually cut the line.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:39:49 GMT -5
If you actually believe that word between humans will not spread among various agencies about an offer made and then being purposely rejected in sole attempt to gain access to another agency....sally forth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:47:20 GMT -5
Supplemental: Always always always remember. This Board is essentially public and yes it is definitely well observed on a daily basis by federal agencies (SSA, OPM, etc) and employees thereof. Finding out the identity of someone on here is not difficult at all. You should presume that everything you have posted so far has already been read and will be acted upon (or conversely resulting in no action) accordingly.
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Post by beenlurking on Jul 23, 2015 13:49:35 GMT -5
I didnt reject the offer from SSA, but I'd like to give you my three cents (SSA adjusted inflation!). Tough question to answer. I think it should be a rhetorical one. The initial application process is time-consuming and you obviously put some thought and effort into it. You also felt an unjustice was done with your application and appealed. What changed between then and now (I don't want to work for SSA)? When you answer that question and figure out what is the core reason(s) you dont want to work for SSA, you will know what to do. Now that sounds like Confucius!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:52:25 GMT -5
Beenlurking...more like a fortune cookie from bad chinese take out.
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 13:54:50 GMT -5
If you actually believe that word between humans will not spread among various agencies about an offer made and then being purposely rejected in sole attempt to gain access to another agency....sally forth. I understand where the tone of this comment may be coming from, but as I mentioned earlier, I don't want to waste anyone's time. But in truth, there are some agencies who would approve of this approach and would not care if SSA had been jilted. Of course, those are the same agencies who are probably not planning to hire off the register. Also, another view point to consider, from what I have gathered on this board, if there is someone on the register standing in the way of someone SSA wants to hire, SSA wouldn't think twice about wasting that applicant's time in making them come out to interview, submit all the paperwork just to 3-strike them out of the way. So I don't really feel bad for SSA. I feel bad for the taxpayer and the others on this board, and I wouldn't want to do anything unfairly selfish there that would harm good people like Gaiden, Gary, MPD, and other good folks on this board.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jul 23, 2015 13:55:16 GMT -5
IMHO, you are not alone at the crossroads. There have been several folks over the last 2 years who realized that the ALJ selection process actually means they need to be a SSA ALJ first before moving to their (supposed) dream agency and said "fuggataboutit". No harm, no foul, just move along in your career. I think the worst story I've heard this go-around was the person who went through the entire process and on day 3 (or close to it) quit the ALJ position he got! Man, talk about not thinking things through!
So, good to have this discussion with your family, your mentors and even us board members. Good luck, but I think you already know the right answer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 14:03:39 GMT -5
"worst story I've heard this go-around was the person who went through the entire process and on day 3 (or close to it) quit the ALJ position"
aauuugghhh........not only bad for him/her, but for SSA and then family and friends.
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 14:03:52 GMT -5
IMHO, you are not alone at the crossroads. There have been several folks over the last 2 years who realized that the ALJ selection process actually means they need to be a SSA ALJ first before moving to their (supposed) dream agency and said "fuggataboutit". No harm, no foul, just move along in your career. I think the worst story I've heard this go-around was the person who went through the entire process and on day 3 (or close to it) quit the ALJ position he got! Man, talk about not thinking things through! So, good to have this discussion with your family, your mentors and even us board members. Good luck, but I think you already know the right answer. Thanks Sealaw. I posted this thread in part for the benefit of those who come after us who can see what the road ahead might hold for them if they do not share the predominate dream shared by those on this board.
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Jul 23, 2015 14:11:11 GMT -5
Supplemental: Always always always remember. This Board is essentially public and yes it is definitely well observed on a daily basis by federal agencies (SSA, OPM, etc) and employees thereof. Finding out the identity of someone on here is not difficult at all. You should presume that everything you have posted so far has already been read and will be acted upon (or conversely resulting in no action) accordingly. Good advice, but now you've just killed any hope of me getting others in my situation to post their thoughts!
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Post by mamaru on Jul 23, 2015 14:12:19 GMT -5
In defense of the ALJ who quit on the third day of training, not the third day of employment, he got an offer from his former employer meeting his ALJ salary back in his home town on the second day of training, talked it over with his wife, and accepted it. I
n accepting the ALJ offer, he had made a tough decision to move and relocate his family because a transfer back to a location that rarely has an opening seemed like a long shot. When he got an offer that would allow the fam to stay put in his hometown, working for an agency he liked, at a significant pay increase, he took it. At least that's what he told others in his training class and there's really no reason to disbelieve it.
I agree that being a considerate person requires us to think things through - for the sake of the candidate/family, the Agency, the taxpayer. However, in thinking it through, you cannot possibly consider all of the unknowns. Circumstances can change in ways you can't predict. So I don't think it's fair to say he didn't think it through.
My guess is that his family and friends (especially those he used to work with) were thrilled at his decision to quit SSA and return to his old stomping grounds.
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