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Post by judgmental on Sept 1, 2015 11:07:35 GMT -5
Thanks Funky!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:08:39 GMT -5
For those of us coming from private practice, this all seems so terribly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not used to having to punch a clock. Punching the clock in a salaried, lifetime tenured, white collar, highly professional position is the definitely the most illogical (if not outright laughable) part of this position I have run across. It is completely and utterly nonsensical but part of the position.
The process would truly be much much simpler for ALJs to have an actual old time punchcard machine by each office door to clock in and out rather than the current mystical pen scratching on paper method currently employed. (Do I write down 1.50 hrs or 1 hr and 30 minutes or 1 and 1/2 hrs or 1.30 hrs? Let's see I arrived at 6:37 am, and am going to use 42 minutes flex time to run an errand today, and I plan working 1 hr and 15 minutes credit time which means my work day clock out time will need to be.....uh uh uh where is my sliderule, calculator and when using this chronometer do I face the sun or face away from the sun???)
Don't scoff newbies, it actually can be that complicated.
The last time I actually punched a clock was working in meatpacking in the late '70's and even way back then it was way way more logical, easier and accurate than the current system used by ODAR.
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Post by sealaw90 on Sept 1, 2015 11:11:05 GMT -5
I'm right there with you anotherfed, night owls are regularly ignored by federal working hours!
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Post by carrickfergus on Sept 1, 2015 18:59:17 GMT -5
"What are the required hours per week? In my first year, could I put in four 10-hour days (sometime between 6:30 and 6) and then drive/fly home to have a long weekend with family? Or work four 10-hour days, one five hour day, and bank five hours of credit for the week, to be applied toward staying home with family on another week?"
That's pretty much what I did. Earned 8 credit hours per week by working 10 hour days, drove the 5 hours to home on Friday evening, took off Mondays and drove back to the office Monday evening. For 20 months.
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Post by cafeta on Sept 2, 2015 2:06:58 GMT -5
I'm right there with you anotherfed, night owls are regularly ignored by federal working hours! Agreed!! I have always started to hit my magic place/pace right when I have to "click out" or, get special permission! Which of course has to be requested in advance AND justified!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 7:52:35 GMT -5
""What are the required hours per week? In my first year, could I put in four 10-hour days (sometime between 6:30 and 6) and then drive/fly home to have a long weekend with family? Or work four 10-hour days, one five hour day, and bank five hours of credit for the week, to be applied toward staying home with family on another week?"
Yes, you can, and note your 10 hr day ends at 5 pm if you show at 6:30 am. 6:30 am to 3:00 pm is 8 reg hrs. I also did this same routine in my first placement. Averaged over 3000 miles/week in flights; fantastic for climbing up in your premium executive airline class status!
Note!!!! You can declare to your HOCALJ that you are going to do a "4/10" schedule. However that can be hinky. A "4/10" schedule is not the same as working 4 regular workdays at 10 hours per day and collecting credit hours. The two are entirely different. I am sure you are scratching your head now wondering how working 4 days at 10 hrs per day is different from working a declared 4/10 schedule, but it is. I will ask others who have actually done the 4/10 schedule to jump in here and explain the difference.
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Post by funkyodar on Sept 2, 2015 9:00:11 GMT -5
If you do the 4/10, you can't do credit (unless that changed and I missed it). Also, everytime you get one of those great federal holidays (like Labor Day next week), you only get 8 holiday hours. So, you have to burn 2 hours of credit or leave to take the day off.
Also, and I can't stress this enough, make sure you know what the hearing room availability in your office is. If you declare for the 4/10 schedule thinking you will get Fridays off...what happens if you( as the lowest judge on the ladder), get stuck with Monday/Friday hearings? Wanna take Wednesdays off?
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Post by Propmaster on Sept 2, 2015 10:00:12 GMT -5
For those of us coming from private practice, this all seems so terribly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not used to having to punch a clock. Punching the clock in a salaried, lifetime tenured, white collar, highly professional position is the definitely the most illogical (if not outright laughable) part of this position I have run across. It is completely and utterly nonsensical but part of the position.
The process would truly be much much simpler for ALJs to have an actual old time punchcard machine by each office door to clock in and out rather than the current mystical pen scratching on paper method currently employed. (Do I write down 1.50 hrs or 1 hr and 30 minutes or 1 and 1/2 hrs or 1.30 hrs? Let's see I arrived at 6:37 am, and am going to use 42 minutes flex time to run an errand today, and I plan working 1 hr and 15 minutes credit time which means my work day clock out time will need to be.....uh uh uh where is my sliderule, calculator and when using this chronometer do I face the sun or face away from the sun???)
Don't scoff newbies, it actually can be that complicated.
The last time I actually punched a clock was working in meatpacking in the late '70's and even way back then it was way way more logical, easier and accurate than the current system used by ODAR.
You're living the results of years of bad apples spoiling the bunches. While everything shouldn't constantly relate back to """Huntington""" (dramatic drum flourish), the ALJ shananigans depicted in the public version of the history of the problems in that office were/are in NO WAY unique to that office, that ALJ, that HOCALJ. One of the very first things I was taught as a group supervisor was to check the shredding bins daily for paper files thrown away by an ALJ who didn't like to work on big paper files and would just send them to shredding and then ask everyone where they were - and they would have to be recreated, etc., making them smaller and easier to ignore the contents of. I was SHOCKED to actually find a file there within the week. Haha, those crazy old ALJ foibles. So all of being treated like a petulant child is based on 20 years of your predecessors acting like petulant children (not everyone, of course). Without timekeeping, you'd never even see some ALJs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 10:41:15 GMT -5
"Without timekeeping, you'd never even see some ALJs."
Ah yes, but....even with timekeeping, and properly recorded, I rarely to never see some ALJs (and that will likely include myself as I telework, credit hours off and travel duty).
Hence, I think we would agree, that the punchclock imposed upon current ALJs is simply nothing more than a useless punishment of the child for the parent's sins.
This is also reflected in the priority from above, which itself focuses only on the final disposition production at year end by an ALJ and does not even hint or concern itself with any concern as to the actual hours an ALJ clocked in and out each day every year.
A tremendous waste of resources, costs and times are spent by the SSA each year running ALJs daily punchtimes to absolutely no productive end or value. That is what make the punchclock punishment laughable and nonsensical; surely a Golden Fleece Award nominee for those who remember.
But it is what it is......"they" were bad decades ago...so we and taxpayers pay.
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Post by Propmaster on Sept 2, 2015 10:43:03 GMT -5
"Without timekeeping, you'd never even see some ALJs." Ah yes, but....even with timekeeping, and properly recorded, I rarely to never see some ALJs (and that will likely include myself as I telework, credit hours off and travel duty). Hence, I think we would agree, that the punchclock imposed upon current ALJs is simply nothing more than a useless punishment of the child for the parent's sins. This is also reflected in the priority from above, which itself focuses only on the final disposition production at year end by an ALJ and does not even hint or concern itself with any concern as to the actual hours an ALJ clocked in and out each day every year. A tremendous waste of resources, costs and times are spent by the SSA each year running ALJs daily punchtimes to absolutely no productive end or value. That is what make the punchclock punishment laughable and nonsensical; surely a Golden Fleece Award nominee for those who remember. But it is what it is......"they" were bad decades ago...so we and taxpayers pay. Yeah, I can agree with that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 11:01:57 GMT -5
It would seem that rather than constantly suing each other and imposing ludicrous punishments because "they can", the AALJ and management could agree that perhaps basic production management training for each would be of better use.
Scenario: John Doe is placed in a room and must produce 500 widgets at year end. He is provided all the materials he needs to do so and allowed to do so at his own pace. Some days he produces 1 widget, some days, none, some days he produces 20. Many days he takes home widgets to produce on his own time. In any event on his own he completes the year end with no problem and produces fine shiny widgets. John whistles while he works.
Jane Doe is placed in an adjacent room and must produce the same 500 widgets at year end. She is provided all the materials she needs to do so. But there is a cloaked figure in the room with her at all times who canes her each time she enters and leaves the room and then in between times simply because he can. If not caning her, there is another cloaked figure in the room and the two constantly spar and whack each other just because they can; each saying they are beating the other "for Jane". Jane is so stressed each day her widget production lags badly and her widgets looks worse for wear. At year end she is exhausted, her widgets are barely done and half are re-dos. Jane drools a lot while she works.
But I digress and happily I am in more of a John Doe scenario.
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Post by Gaidin on Sept 2, 2015 11:23:19 GMT -5
It would seem that rather than constantly suing each other and imposing ludicrous punishments because "they can", the AALJ and management could agree that perhaps basic production management training for each would be of better use. Scenario: John Doe is placed in a room and must produce 500 widgets at year end. He is provided all the materials he needs to do so and allowed to do so at his own pace. Some days he produces 1 widget, some days, none, some days he produces 20. Many days he takes home widgets to produce on his own time. In any event on his own he completes the year end with no problem and produces fine shiny widgets. John whistles while he works. Jane Doe is placed in an adjacent room and must produce the same 500 widgets at year end. She is provided all the materials she needs to do so. But there is a cloaked figure in the room with her at all times who canes her each time she enters and leaves the room and then in between times simply because he can. If not caning her, there is another cloaked figure in the room and the two constantly spar and whack each other just because they can; each saying they are beating the other "for Jane". Jane is so stressed each day her widget production lags badly and her widgets looks worse for wear. At year end she is exhausted, her widgets are barely done and half are re-dos. Jane drools a lot while she works. But I digress and happily I am in more of a John Doe scenario. I used to work in Jane Doe's office.
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Post by sealaw90 on Sept 2, 2015 12:38:13 GMT -5
It would seem that rather than constantly suing each other and imposing ludicrous punishments because "they can", the AALJ and management could agree that perhaps basic production management training for each would be of better use. Scenario: John Doe is placed in a room and must produce 500 widgets at year end. He is provided all the materials he needs to do so and allowed to do so at his own pace. Some days he produces 1 widget, some days, none, some days he produces 20. Many days he takes home widgets to produce on his own time. In any event on his own he completes the year end with no problem and produces fine shiny widgets. John whistles while he works. Jane Doe is placed in an adjacent room and must produce the same 500 widgets at year end. She is provided all the materials she needs to do so. But there is a cloaked figure in the room with her at all times who canes her each time she enters and leaves the room and then in between times simply because he can. If not caning her, there is another cloaked figure in the room and the two constantly spar and whack each other just because they can; each saying they are beating the other "for Jane". Jane is so stressed each day her widget production lags badly and her widgets looks worse for wear. At year end she is exhausted, her widgets are barely done and half are re-dos. Jane drools a lot while she works. But I digress and happily I am in more of a John Doe scenario. I used to work in Jane Doe's office. I work next to Jane Doe's office. Glad they perform the caning in her room. I just have incessant cackling outside my door. I will be drooling by the end of the year...
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Post by privateatty on Sept 2, 2015 15:31:02 GMT -5
We don't sign in and sign out. We have an honor system. I think ODAR is the only place that does what y'all describe. To me, it is facially demeaning, but not illogical in light of the present Union/Management relationship.
That having been said, it is not unheard of that non ODAR ALJ(s) receive discipline for repeated AWOL offenses...rightly so. Folks do notice when you come in and leave.
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Post by anotherfed on Sept 2, 2015 16:43:50 GMT -5
I have seen the sign-in process at two other agencies. One used the paper/pen method, and another required you to send an email when you got in every morning and when you left.
It is a sport to take note of comings and goings throughout the day, especially of ALJs.
I can see how signing in could be considered demeaning, but if you can't critique performance there's gotta be some mechanical means to discipline. Timekeeping is just one management tool.
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Post by judgmental on Sept 2, 2015 16:59:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up, FunkyODAR and Papajudge.
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Post by ba on Sept 2, 2015 18:13:20 GMT -5
We don't sign in and sign out. We have an honor system. I think ODAR is the only place that does what y'all describe. To me, it is facially demeaning, but not illogical in light of the present Union/Management relationship. That having been said, it is not unheard of that non ODAR ALJ(s) receive discipline for repeated AWOL offenses...rightly so. Folks do notice when you come in and leave. Frankly, there is too much work that I believe in doing at proper quality to fall anywhere below the amount of time minimum. If anything, I will be donating time in the near future. I can't see how anyone that cares about the quality of their work can do otherwise.
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Post by hopefalj on Sept 2, 2015 18:23:02 GMT -5
I would still take signing in/signing out over billing hours every day of the week and twice in Sundays. Ugh, now I'm having flashbacks to actually billing on Sundays.
At some point in the future, I would assume we'll join the rest of our office and start using WebTA to sign in/sign out. During the learning curve, you will miss simply signing a sheet of paper, although it's not terribly complex to learn.
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Post by minny on Sept 2, 2015 22:29:08 GMT -5
I would still take signing in/signing out over billing hours every day of the week and twice in Sundays. Ugh, now I'm having flashbacks to actually billing on Sundays. At some point in the future, I would assume we'll join the rest of our office and start using WebTA to sign in/sign out. During the learning curve, you will miss simply signing a sheet of paper, although it's not terribly complex to learn. So agree. Since moving to the federal sector, I have never had need of a couch in my office to catch a few hours of sleep, but I sure had one when I was in private practice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 23:34:11 GMT -5
It would seem that rather than constantly suing each other and imposing ludicrous punishments because "they can", the AALJ and management could agree that perhaps basic production management training for each would be of better use. Scenario: John Doe is placed in a room and must produce 500 widgets at year end. He is provided all the materials he needs to do so and allowed to do so at his own pace. Some days he produces 1 widget, some days, none, some days he produces 20. Many days he takes home widgets to produce on his own time. In any event on his own he completes the year end with no problem and produces fine shiny widgets. John whistles while he works. Jane Doe is placed in an adjacent room and must produce the same 500 widgets at year end. She is provided all the materials she needs to do so. But there is a cloaked figure in the room with her at all times who canes her each time she enters and leaves the room and then in between times simply because he can. If not caning her, there is another cloaked figure in the room and the two constantly spar and whack each other just because they can; each saying they are beating the other "for Jane". Jane is so stressed each day her widget production lags badly and her widgets looks worse for wear. At year end she is exhausted, her widgets are barely done and half are re-dos. Jane drools a lot while she works. But I digress and happily I am in more of a John Doe scenario. I thought it was de-boning chickens, what's up with the widgets?
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