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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 7:56:53 GMT -5
Phoenixrakkasan commented regarding taking Fridays off by aljs: "That is a lot of time off".
Reply; not at all. Bearing in mind that you are maintaining your 500+ disposition rate, then once you have earned CHs and start keeping 24 hrs in the bank as do many aljs I know, and then you continue to routinely work 11 hour workdays either in office, on telework or on additional 8 hrs per each Saturday and or Sunday, again as do many aljs I know, then taking off Fridays is not only necessary for your mental stability but more times than not is required per use or lose policy.
Example of a typical workday: rise at 5:30 am to be online either in office or on telework at 6:30 am. (Being at your work station at 6:30 am is a common norm from my direct observed experience of ALJs) If a hearing day, hearings start at 8:00 am and are scheduled thru 3:30 pm. There is half-hour allotted for lunch. If all goes well, then finish the 3:30 pm hearing at 4 - 4:30 pm, go back to office and work emails and dispositions until 6:00 pm. Sign out for 8 hrs plus 3 hrs credit; i.e., an 11 hour workday.
Less than 12 hours later, rise, then lather, rinse, repeat. Having a day off (e.g., a Friday,) is mandatory brain and body relief.
To those in the running to be here, as Tigerlaw and others have commented, this is the job opportunity of a lifetime. There are tons of perks associated with same. But that does mean what it says, this is a job. One must do the job and more importantly be dedicated to do it well. Don't kid oneself into thinking the perks of credit hours etc leaves one the opportunity to dilly dally, blow time and skate through the job as is the common (mis)conception held by the public of federal workers. Simply will not happen. You will work and you will work hard. Hence the reason for credit hours; the SSA needs you to keep working and not burn out.
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Post by mamaru on Jan 19, 2016 8:40:02 GMT -5
I applaud the early research, but unfortunately there is no one answer to this question. How personnel policies and CBA provisions are interpreted and applied may vary from office to office. For example, the practice of changing your schedule to consistently create three or four-day weekends is SOP in some offices. In others, it is not allowed. Plus policies change, managers change, CB provisions change over the time involved between replying to USAJobs and getting hired, such as the new two-year wait before transfer.
It's a trade-off on the size of your GAL, but if you want to be sure that you will see your family often without moving to a new location the safest approach is to assume that the policies discussed on the thread and in the discussion above will be strictly enforced.
As for the NHC question, unless there is a change, you will not being going to an NHC as a first offer. NHC judges are management positions recruited from the ranks. Again, this is the subject of other threads.
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Post by prescient on Jan 19, 2016 8:57:13 GMT -5
Also, don't forget the issue of hearing office space. In my office, if you are a new hire, your hearing schedule will be M/W/F in perpetuity, until/unless a more senior ALJ retires or transfers. We simply do not have enough hearing rooms to let you have any input in what you want your schedule to be, and seniority rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 9:02:06 GMT -5
"The point was that you cannot alter your work schedule without approval within the confines of the options - fixed schedule or one of several flexible options"
I still do not follow (nor agree) with your observation. As an ALJ you are required to work 80 hours per payperiod. You set your own start and quit times within the established core work day hours, and most importantly "in the case of a full-time Judge, has an eighty-hour (80-hour) biweekly basic work requirement that allows a Judge to determine his or her own schedule"; i.e., you as an ALJ set your own work schedule, not management. Art 14 et seq. I am not personally aware of any ALJs that subject themselves to management approval of their work hours as you state. I do not know of any ALJs that work for or are employees of management.
In re "I am just pointing out that there are guidelines on the approval of use of credit and it will not necessarily be true that a person can adjust his or her schedule through creative use of credit hours."
I believe you are mistakenly mixing apples and oranges. Art 14 addresses work hours and credit hours in different subsections. The two are entirely separate and distinct items. For example ALJs who chose a 5-4/9 or a 4-10 work schedule are not entitled to credit hours. For all other ALJs who chose a regular flextime 80 hr schedule they can earn up to 3 credit hours as desired on workdays (M-F) as desired and 8 hrs on nonregular workdays (excluding holidays), as desired not to exceed 33 hrs per payperiod and not to carry over more than 24 hrs per payperiod again as the ALJ desires.
Sorry, but I know of no ALJs who subject themselves to a "management call" of approval over the ALJs personal choice of work schedule and/or choice of credit hours. I would be very interested to see which office you are dealing with that subjects the ALJ's personal choice of schedule and credit hours to management approval first. That appears to be a direct violation of Suc sec 5: "Flextime, Flexible Work Arrangements and the right to earn and use Credit Hours [by ALJs] shall not be curtailed or denied in lieu of discipline." This may well need to be reported the union for investigation.
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 19, 2016 9:44:44 GMT -5
The operative words are "in lieu of discipline." That is a very narrow application of the contract language. It means management can't mess with your hours as a way of disciplining you. that's the only rights this contract provision grants.
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Post by mamaru on Jan 19, 2016 10:39:15 GMT -5
Well done, Madam Arbitrator.
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 19, 2016 11:14:29 GMT -5
Thanks, Madam Arbitrator.
You wouldn't see too many cases like this unless there was a grievance war going on. If a union brought this one, it would be a hallway settlement right after I heard the opening arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 12:01:32 GMT -5
"The point was that you cannot alter your work schedule without approval within the confines of the options - fixed schedule or one of several flexible options" I still do not follow (nor agree) with your observation. As an ALJ you are required to work 80 hours per payperiod. You set your own start and quit times within the established core work day hours, and most importantly "in the case of a full-time Judge, has an eighty-hour (80-hour) biweekly basic work requirement that allows a Judge to determine his or her own schedule"; i.e., you as an ALJ set your own work schedule, not management. Art 14 et seq. I am not personally aware of any ALJs that subject themselves to management approval of their work hours as you state. I do not know of any ALJs that work for or are employees of management. In re "I am just pointing out that there are guidelines on the approval of use of credit and it will not necessarily be true that a person can adjust his or her schedule through creative use of credit hours." I believe you are mistakenly mixing apples and oranges. Art 14 addresses work hours and credit hours in different subsections. The two are entirely separate and distinct items. For example ALJs who chose a 5-4/9 or a 4-10 work schedule are not entitled to credit hours. For all other ALJs who chose a regular flextime 80 hr schedule they can earn up to 3 credit hours as desired on workdays (M-F) as desired and 8 hrs on nonregular workdays (excluding holidays), as desired not to exceed 33 hrs per payperiod and not to carry over more than 24 hrs per payperiod again as the ALJ desires. Sorry, but I know of no ALJs who subject themselves to a "management call" of approval over the ALJs personal choice of work schedule and/or choice of credit hours. I would be very interested to see which office you are dealing with that subjects the ALJ's personal choice of schedule and credit hours to management approval first. That appears to be a direct violation of Suc sec 5: "Flextime, Flexible Work Arrangements and the right to earn and use Credit Hours [by ALJs] shall not be curtailed or denied in lieu of discipline." This may well need to be reported the union for investigation. Well, thanks for your opinion! And then he was gone! Deleted and outta here! Have comments, but no time right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 14:52:13 GMT -5
FYI - other personnel rules that should be (I am not sure if they are) incorporated into the CBA prevent using credit hours to regularly adjust your schedule such that you effectively have invented your own base tour of duty (expected work schedule). In other words, you can't work 2 hours of credit every Monday through Thursday and take every Friday off unless you ask for and are approved to work on that available schedule. No self-help on work scheduling on an ongoing basis. I wanted to chime in on this one point....there is no such provision. The CBA gives the ALJ the right to use all of his earned credit hours in that pay period....so long as you are doing your hearings and all other duties, you have a right to use your credit hours any time you wish. We had this exact conversation in Tupelo and it went nowhere fast. And if you should get some blowback about this issue, well raise a little "union he*l" and the HOCALJ will back off.
Having said that, it would be next to impossible anyway as their are simply too many balls in the air at any given time to do it the same day of the week, week in and week out, but I take my credit hours any time I wish with nothing more than a leave slip and an email.
We have a great CBA, but you have to read it and fight for your rights under the contract! IMHO Tiger!
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Post by christina on Jan 19, 2016 15:00:07 GMT -5
actually, prop has a point. i have heard of some type of personnel thing he references YEARS ago. not sure of any office who ever enforced it other than my own at times. i think he is talking about a personnel policy that applies to all federal employees regardless of a CBA.
Although if not in a CBA and generally not enforced, or it appears it's not even known about anymore, if this issue ever comes back up, it would be pretty easy to argue away.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 16:06:56 GMT -5
"The point was that you cannot alter your work schedule without approval within the confines of the options - fixed schedule or one of several flexible options" I still do not follow (nor agree) with your observation. As an ALJ you are required to work 80 hours per payperiod. You set your own start and quit times within the established core work day hours, and most importantly "in the case of a full-time Judge, has an eighty-hour (80-hour) biweekly basic work requirement that allows a Judge to determine his or her own schedule"; i.e., you as an ALJ set your own work schedule, not management. Art 14 et seq. I am not personally aware of any ALJs that subject themselves to management approval of their work hours as you state. I do not know of any ALJs that work for or are employees of management. In re "I am just pointing out that there are guidelines on the approval of use of credit and it will not necessarily be true that a person can adjust his or her schedule through creative use of credit hours." I believe you are mistakenly mixing apples and oranges. Art 14 addresses work hours and credit hours in different subsections. The two are entirely separate and distinct items. For example ALJs who chose a 5-4/9 or a 4-10 work schedule are not entitled to credit hours. For all other ALJs who chose a regular flextime 80 hr schedule they can earn up to 3 credit hours as desired on workdays (M-F) as desired and 8 hrs on nonregular workdays (excluding holidays), as desired not to exceed 33 hrs per payperiod and not to carry over more than 24 hrs per payperiod again as the ALJ desires. Sorry, but I know of no ALJs who subject themselves to a "management call" of approval over the ALJs personal choice of work schedule and/or choice of credit hours. I would be very interested to see which office you are dealing with that subjects the ALJ's personal choice of schedule and credit hours to management approval first. That appears to be a direct violation of Suc sec 5: "Flextime, Flexible Work Arrangements and the right to earn and use Credit Hours [by ALJs] shall not be curtailed or denied in lieu of discipline." This may well need to be reported the union for investigation. Now I am quoting "Casper the friendly Ghost ALJ", but if you are not talking about your actual experience as an ALJ, then why are you offering an opinion on something that you have no base of knowledge/experience about and totally ignoring the very legal document that Casper is talking about in the above quoted post!
Their are different contracts and different standards for all positions within the Federal Govt., but don't post what you remembered from "your days as a Federal employee" unless it was as an ODAR ALJ under this contract.
Prop does have a point, but it's an incorrect point, not based upon the contract as stated in the above post or his experience as an ODAR ALJ. If you have some legal authority to cite too, that would help the discussion, but simply talking about when you were an AA or whatever, but not an ODAR ALJ working under this CBA would confuse me if I was reading this thread.
Casper quoted and stated exactly how ever ODAR ALJ should treat the issue of working credit hours and taking time off. This job demands too much of an individual to have fellow ALJs in ODAR caving into management on what is a "clear issue" as to when and how an ALJ can take her/his credit hours. IMHO tiger
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Post by christina on Jan 19, 2016 16:19:00 GMT -5
Agreed tiger and even in my office which could be uptight on said mystery policy, one of our judges generally was gone on Friday using credit hours I assume.
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Post by Propmaster on Jan 19, 2016 18:17:10 GMT -5
I am confused who wrote which response, so I cannot respond by name.
First - all ALJs have a management supervisor, the HOCALJ. All ALJs must get the HOCALJ's permission to use any leave. To quote the contract, Article 14:
7. Use of earned credit hours will be requested by submitting a form SSA-71 or electronic equivalent. The Judge will check the block to the left of "Other" and write out credit hours to the right of "Specify."
8. Accrued credit hours may be used alone or in combination with annual leave, sick leave, when appropriate, or compensatory time for travel if approved by management. A Judge may use all or any of his or her accumulated credit hours in a single pay period.
All leave is "requested." Although it cannot be denied for disciplinary reasons, it can be denied if there are legitimate business reasons. Article 18 says:
A. Judges shall earn leave in accordance with applicable statutes and regulations.
B. Judges will submit for approval a completed form SSA-71, or electronic equivalent in advance of all anticipated leave to permit the orderly scheduling of leave; to avoid leave forfeitures which might otherwise result; and to protect the Judges’ right to file for restoration of leave forfeited due to illness or injury or an exigency of public business if all other conditions are met.
C. The Parties acknowledge that hearing dockets are generally scheduled 60 to 90 days in advance. In recognition of that fact, the Judge will coordinate the scheduling of anticipated annual or sick leave requests with his or her hearing calendar. Judges will submit a completed SSA Form-71, or electronic equivalent, for such anticipated annual or sick leave together with his or her hearing calendar.
D. Any denial of requested leave shall state the reasons for the denial in writing, and be provided to the Judge at the same time of the denial, or not later than three (3) working days after the submission of the Form SSA-71, or electronic equivalent.
So, it is NOT true that ALJs set their own schedules as long as they work 80 hours in a two-week period.
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Post by minny on Jan 19, 2016 20:53:41 GMT -5
I do not work for SSA currently, but do work for another federal agency. I think the confusion over whether an employee can use credit hours to essentially work another tour of duty may largely depend on the management of the office. If an employee works a 4/10 schedule by working 2 credit hours a day and taking Friday off with credit hours, management may determine that this employee is, in effect, working a Compressed Work Schedule (CWS). There is no legal authority for an employee to earn credit hours on a CWS schedule - they can only be earned on a Flexible Work Schedule (FWS). See, 5 USC 6121(4). Based on this, I think that management could, if they chose to do so, force the employee in this situation to choose between a CWS and FWS schedule. Just my thoughts based on the statutes and OPM guidance.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 19, 2016 21:07:35 GMT -5
Also, don't forget the issue of hearing office space. In my office, if you are a new hire, your hearing schedule will be M/W/F in perpetuity, until/unless a more senior ALJ retires or transfers. We simply do not have enough hearing rooms to let you have any input in what you want your schedule to be, and seniority rules. This is so true. My office has only a few hearing rooms and I get what I get for hearing dates. Period.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 23:34:48 GMT -5
First - all ALJs have a management supervisor.--False, see below. So, it is NOT true that ALJs set their own schedules as long as they work 80 hours in a two-week period.--False, see below. Again, not trying to beat up on non-ALJs, but the topic of the thread is what an ALJ can and cannot do with their telework rights and then a side issue on credit hours.
"First - all ALJs have a management supervisor."-
False....... I do not have a management supervisor other than the Constitution, the APA and the CFR that defines the law that I must follow. If you don't appreciate this very important point, then maybe you should not have a lifetime appointment as an ALJ. (Please don't waste your time on telling me it's not a lifetime appointment, Judge S. had a major problem in 1997 and only did 110 decisions in 2010 and it took the agency 17 years to get rid of him, it's a lifetime appointment, absent stupid or illegal behavior and also....there will not be a reduction in force with 1.1 million pending cases!) I do have an "administrative supervisor" with limited supervision over certain administrative matters. Judges have a union and that union has negotiated a contract at the highest levels of management at SSA/ODAR with my fellow ALJs in my union leadership. My HOCAJ or RCALJ wasn't made a part of the process because it is well above their pay grade.
The contract will be honored by the Agency or the Union will take actions to prevent the denial of the rights previously bargained for under the contract. If you don't like unions, that's your problem, not mine and you are probably reaping the benefits of my union dues that I pay every two weeks, but that's another day and topic.
"So, it is NOT true that ALJs set their own schedules as long as they work 80 hours in a two-week period."-
False......absent extraordinary circumstances, ALJs most certainly do set their own schedule in conjunction with all other ALJs and the confines of the individual hearing office circumstances.
Again, so long as you have worked out a hearing schedule that works with all other ALJs to include the HOCALJ (who is a Judge holding hearings, just like you) and you have no other ALJ related problems, you will be able to use your credit hours anyway you see fit without any problems from anybody.
That's how the telework system works and that's how the credit hours work from an ALJ (me) and I have been doing the job since 2014 in two different regions and hearing offices.
If another ALJ under the current ODAR CBA has a different opinion, then listen to that opinion and be your own judge (pardon the pun) and decide for yourself. IMHO
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Post by bartleby on Jan 20, 2016 9:54:29 GMT -5
The only thing I can think to add is that you must earn your credit hours, up to 3, during the week, between 6:30 AM and 6:00 PM if you are working in the office. Probably the same at home. Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of Judges working in the office at 8:00 PM so obviously it's not on credit time. Sad. Makes it hard on us night owls. I didn't go to medical school because I didn't want to get up early to do 6:30 surgery. That said, I did sign in as a AA and SAA at 6:30 for 15 years so I could flee at 3:00 and beat the traffic. I didn't have to work over 40 hours a week in those days... Or wake up in the middle of the night and wonder if that claimant was more credible than I thought he was...
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Post by luckylady2 on Jan 20, 2016 12:42:46 GMT -5
Ok, maybe this is irrelevant (I don't think so), but there ARE OPM personnel regulations and policies, too, not just the CBA.
As an aside, at one point years ago at another agency, I wanted to arrange my hours to be able to participate in a regular community activity by working extra hours on the two days ahead of time. My boss would not let me do it as credit hours or an hours-swap. Instead, he did an official change of my duty hours to match the new schedule, somewhat I believe, so that he could monitor that I was keeping to the proposed schedule and could be held accountable for it. In addition, there was always concern about having coverage during normal business hours.
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Post by Propmaster on Jan 20, 2016 16:35:14 GMT -5
Tiger Law, I assume we're having a disagreement in semantics. I quoted the CBA that your union negotiated, and it says that credit hours may be used "if approved by management." Maybe I failed to make it look enough like a quote, but I was copying it word for word. There is very little room for arguing that there is no management overseeing an ALJ's work hours. During your last almost-two-years working as an ALJ, I have to presume that you dutifully completed attendance forms and leave requests. If you did not do so, you would not have been paid (or at least we must hope so).
I agree the job is very hard to lose. I am not arguing about what you or any ALJ can get away with, only what the rules are that govern your leave usage. If your HOCALJ tells you that you can do whatever you want and she or he will sign off on it after the fact, more power to you, but it is not guaranteed by your CBA. You cannot sign out early on a nice day and go play golf without seeking permission first, even if you have credit hours in the bank.
P.S. I have not been speaking in any way about telework, unless I was doing so accidentally.
P.P.S. I am not sure from where your aversion to acknowledging that there is management of ALJs comes. An ALJ's qualified judicial independence relates to case management and decision-making, not to hours of work, locations of work, forms that need to be filled out, etc. The person who makes you do that stuff in order to get paid and have your decisions effectuated is your manager. That person is part of management, which explicitly extends above you from the HOCALJ to the RCALJ to the OCALJ to the DCDAR to the COSS. The Management with whom the union bargained has explicitly delegated authority for management decisions down the line, in some cases to your HOCALJ. The likelihood of management DOING something is irrelevant to the acknowledgement that they exist. Or at least I think it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 21:58:11 GMT -5
Prop, tired of discussing what ALJs can and can't do with a decision writer that hasn't a clue how the ALJ contract works in the day to day operations with the Judges within an office. You don't know and being a writer for a hundred years gives you almost zero insight into it as you are in an office writing decisions almost all of your working hours unless you are told to do something otherwise by your managers.
And yes, if the sun is shining and you have 16 credit hours in your bank, you most certainly can just put in a leave slip for the rest of the day, walk over and sign out and say see ya'll, wouldn't want to be ya'll.
Even if you had a micro manager of a HOCALJ, trying his/her best to be your boss (which is not the norm, nor the role of the HOCALJ), you could just IM him/her that you will be out the rest of the day burning up credit hours. The contract gives the ALJ the right to use all earn credit hours in any pay period that they have credit hours.
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