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Post by Gaidin on Jan 20, 2016 22:02:26 GMT -5
Gary, This is my first post. I have been a lurker for a while though. I am chiming in now to tell you and the other diligent purveyors of knowledge that you are awesome for sharing. I have learned a lot from the posts, much more than is ever discussed within my agency. Also, your intel is amazing. Thanks to you, Gaidin and all the others who give free time to this effort. Like gary said thank you.
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Post by aljwishhope on Jan 20, 2016 22:24:26 GMT -5
School ends on or about June 23rd. I am so elated that a class will start thereabouts. I have been praying for that timeframe and Arlington or Irvine or now that it is snowing many other warm places. I know I am putting cart before horse as i do not have NOR. Nonetheless THANKS you are saving a piece of my sanity with your intel and possibly keeping me from gaining 20 pounds from nervous eating.. Can't say thanks enough to sharers on this board.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 21, 2016 9:26:02 GMT -5
owl made a great post over in another thread. I am copying it below. The blue is funkyodar discussing the short shrift in Tupelo and the purple is Owl's response. Link to thread - aljdiscussion.proboards.com/post/87245/thread21 hours ago funkyodar said: And once again Tupelo gets all tidied up and gets no date to the dance. 6 vacancies and not a single hire.....? Really? C'mon hiring crew, something seems FUBAR.Well this is a really interesting point, although we do need to keep in mind that our polling data is very likely incomplete at the micro level. In other words, unless funky knows for a fact that OCALJ has already communicated to the RCALJ that Tupelo is not getting a new ALJ this round even though calls just stopped within the last day or so (certainly possible), it could be that there is just an unreported acceptance (or even more than one) for this or any other office. The final word is always the official list of hires that comes out from OCALJ and that takes several days to filter its way to this board.
But at the macro level, funky's intel combined with our polls definitely provides some usable data and perhaps there is some sort of conclusion to be drawn. We have a known "usual suspects" office with clear need - 6 vacancies! - that appears to have drawn zero hires. And in the part 1 poll thread, there is a report of another similar office (it's in region 5 and I think plenty of people know which one it is but the local board member does not want it specifically named so I'll respect that) with more than half its ALJ seats vacant and apparently no hires. Given the number of offices with 0 hires reported (35 out of 60 cities) it is almost certain that there are other offices with more than a few vacancies that SSA did not hire in, while at the same time placing 2 or even 3 ALJs in quite a few offices. Also, given our polling coverage, it is almost certain that if SSA had hired 2 (or definitely 3) ALJs for Tupelo or any other office at least 1 of those would have gotten reported in the polls by now. So quite clearly, for this round, SSA at best underhired and at worst failed to hire in some offices despite clear needs. The burning question is why. You have to assume they are acutely aware of the need and would hire at least one or two to help relieve the situation but for...what?My personal WAG is, with several rounds of hiring having already taken place since summer 2014, the top 3s for some locales had somehow become undesirable to SSA, composed of people they're not keen on and/or vets they can't pass over and with GALs sufficiently narrow that they have not accumulated 3 strikes by being passed over elsewhere. And moreover, they can't accumulate any more strikes until someone is hired over them. This puts SSA in the position of either sticking to its guns and not hiring from that top 3 until there is some sort of gamechanging occurrence, or reconsidering its assessments in some cases and hiring some people it has questions about in order to get the strikes and therefore the hiring flowing again. Choosing the former seems the likelier course of action.
And, with the Aug.-Sept. testers coming on, with NORs in a similar distribution to the original register, that did change the game in some places. The higher NORs in this cohort instantly or within a few hires found themselves in some top 3s, and as these folks were hired that allowed for strikes to be applied and hiring movement to happen across the board, even in very popular locales. But this was a relatively small group, so their GAL distribution, in terms of including the usual suspects offices, was probably hit or miss. Remember, nearly all these folks (all except quarterly testing vets) had selected their GALs back in March 2013. So there still seem to be some offices where the game has not changed. And if the next hiring round is conducted from this same set of certs, with no GAL expansions taken into account and before the Oct.-Dec. testers are added, it would seem unlikely to change yet again.
But if they close out this set of certs, and request a new set with the GAL expansions taken into account, that could change the composition of many top 3s, and obviously whichever set of certs has the Oct.-Dec. testers included, which will be a substantial number, will almost certainly pave the way for hiring in offices that for whatever reason seem to have become blocked.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 21, 2016 9:52:16 GMT -5
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Post by somethingbrewing on Jan 21, 2016 10:43:37 GMT -5
Not to be a pessimist, but I think everyone needs to consider another possibility on future hiring. That is, despite the agency's stated hiring goals, they are going to come up short. I think if one were to go back and look at all the hiring since the register reopened (so starting with the August 2014 class), the agency has come up short in their stated hiring goals just about every time. 250 annual hires is ambitious, and there are limits on the number of new ALJs that can be trained at one time in Falls Church. In addition, there is some overlap between the new hire and refresher training ALJ instructors, and I would be shocked if the agency tried to train multiple classes at the same time in different locations. For the current class coming aboard (and a big congrats to all the new ALJs), the agency has had over a 4-month period in between classes, and yet they still topped out around 50 hires if reports are to be believed. If another break of a few months is coming, unless there is some significant change in the hiring process, it will be quite a feat for the agency to get in four hiring classes of 50 ALJs each in a 5-month period. For example, when put in a similar time crunch last fiscal year, the agency got stuck with an August hiring class of 11 or 12 ALJs.
And I should add that my viewpoint is not meant to disparage the agency in any way. As those of you going through the process know, it is incredibly complex, drawn out, and difficult. I was recently explaining to a new ALJ how, with the city-by-city certs, the agency has to go about making hiring decisions and offers. As she said, "That sounds awful. God bless those people who do that." The agency wants to hire lots of new ALJs, and is working hard to do that. Unfortunately, the reality is that the process makes it hard for them to meet the stated goals even with great efforts.
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Post by prescient on Jan 21, 2016 11:40:55 GMT -5
I think SSA really wants to see who gets on the register from the oct-Dec group.
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Post by bartleby on Jan 21, 2016 12:14:05 GMT -5
The devil is in the details. While the Agency wants to hire 250 more Judges, there is no place to put them all. And while I know you all would work in a closet for the job, there is debate between the Agency and Union regarding Judge office space and several of the options I have heard bantered around are office sharing, doing away with Judge offices completely (doable through working at home and being in the office for hearings only), using smaller office space, splitting some ODAR offices, placing offices in DDS buildings, etc. Nothing moves quickly with the Agency so it may be years before this is worked out. Why they are not filling the boondock offices like Tupelo or Toledo, I have no idea. Probably an oversight. Continued good luck and prayers for you all that think this job is the next step to eternal happiness. (Bless your hearts)
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Post by christina on Jan 21, 2016 12:38:33 GMT -5
Bartleby said- Continued good luck and prayers for you all that think this job is the next step to eternal happiness. (Bless your hearts)
lol Bartleby!!! and i tend to agree with him on this point too. Good job, way better than private practice as those who have done both have attested to but it is not eternal happiness.... I've seen enough to know he is right on the money on that point.
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Post by yodapug on Jan 21, 2016 12:58:21 GMT -5
The devil is in the details. While the Agency wants to hire 250 more Judges, there is no place to put them all. And while I know you all would work in a closet for the job, there is debate between the Agency and Union regarding Judge office space and several of the options I have heard bantered around are office sharing, doing away with Judge offices completely (doable through working at home and being in the office for hearings only), using smaller office space, splitting some ODAR offices, placing offices in DDS buildings, etc. Nothing moves quickly with the Agency so it may be years before this is worked out. Why they are not filling the boondock offices like Tupelo or Toledo, I have no idea. Probably an oversight. Continued good luck and prayers for you all that think this job is the next step to eternal happiness. (Bless your hearts) Those good wishes sound remarkably like the old adage, "be careful what you ask for." Which is a fair statement for those who may remember a time when ALJ decided 250-300 cases a year without the evil eye of management hounding them and writers could slap together any boilerplate and have an ALJ sign and send. Production quotas are up for both ALJ's and DW. Remand rates are scrutinized for both ALJ's and DW. The DWSI has become the DWPI, statistical averaging giving way to production rates. I guess DW cannot do there job if a low stress environment is ordered by their PCP with only simple tasks and simple work-related decisions? (inside j/k). The Agency has hired a cadre of QRS workers, whose job it is to root out mediocrity in DW. Clearly, a new paradigm exists as to the Agency's commitment to quality. This is most clearly manifest in their commitment to tweak the hiring process as they did in 2013, to ensure more competent, higher producing individuals would be hired by the Agency. The Agency now even asks your references if you will be able to handle a 500-700 case workload. Article III judges have an average of 650 cases I think? Granted Article III judges have different support staff needs, but the Agency's arguable belief that if they can do it, ALJ's can do it, cannot be ignored as one factor motivating the new production standard. So, Judge Bartleby's wry quip as to seeking eternal happiness through this job, is well taken; be careful what you ask for, you may just get it. And yes, I would work in a closet to get this job, even if that closet was in Anchorage. And I promise not to file a grievance when I get to that closet in Alaska, for having to work in a non-conforming space! Bartleby's point is well taken however, that the Agency is moving quickly to doing things differently. In my office we are scheduled to get three more ALJ's, even though they will be housed in a lowly DW office. Their contract at least calls for 10 x 10 offices, does it not? I doubt my Alaskan closet will be so large? Hakuna Mattata, as long as I get that job...
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Post by minny on Jan 21, 2016 13:06:52 GMT -5
Just my WAG - I think there will be one more class from the current cert (picture trying to hold back the FOAD) with one more training class between the current new hires and those set to report on late June.
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Post by christina on Jan 21, 2016 13:16:43 GMT -5
my WAG is 2 hired groups of 100 each and split into groups of 50 for training.
First group hired around 6-27, maybe earlier if all logistics fall into place. Second group hired either Aug or Sept and could have training as late as October.
i think folks added to register in near future will be part all of the above hires.
i am assuming ODAR has training rooms big enough to host 2 separate groups of 50 at same time.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 21, 2016 13:36:47 GMT -5
my WAG is 2 hired groups of 100 each and split into groups of 50 for training. First group hired around 6-27, maybe earlier if all logistics fall into place. Second group hired either Aug or Sept and could have training as late as October. i think folks added to register in near future will be part all of the above hires. i am assuming ODAR has training rooms big enough to host 2 separate groups of 50 at same time. I have been told that the training rooms in FC are not big enough to host more than two groups of 30 (or so) simultaneously. They can absolutely find larger space. Whether that is more classrooms that hold 30 or larger classrooms? ? I am not sure how effective training new ALJs in groups bigger than 30 would be. Honestly, that seems like a large group to teach anything this technical. There is sufficient time to hire four classes starting in June and rolling through where they start by September 18 which is the last pay period of the FY. I understand that ALJ refresher training will occur sometime in June as well.
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Post by christina on Jan 21, 2016 13:43:40 GMT -5
there is a big room in FC or maybe it was several rooms combined that should be able to host 50. i just have no idea how many training rooms there are in FC.
and satellite training is also an option. that could allow same group of trainers to reach several training sites at once.
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Post by jagvet on Jan 22, 2016 12:43:21 GMT -5
Hello, everyone! I have finally registered after eight months of "lurking." I was a 2013 aol applicant, 5-point vet, did not appeal, Aug/Sept OPM, NOR 11/15, ODAR interview 12/15, and didn't get a call last week. No one was hired in my cities (narrow GAL because of family responsibilities). I am hoping (a) that am not a top-3 applicant that they don't want, and (b) that one or more of my cities get in the next round. Thanks to all of you heroes for keeping this forum going. If I had not found you through a Google search after getting that first mysterious email from OPM in my spam box last June, I would have been lost in this maze. I first applied to OPM around 1993, so this is a long-time career goal. So here's my question: Has ODAR ever had concurrent training for new ALJs, such as FC and Baltimore? From what y'all have said, SSA will have to be creative to meet the 250 goal.
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Post by gary on Jan 22, 2016 12:47:13 GMT -5
Hello, everyone! I have finally registered after eight months of "lurking." I was a 2013 aol applicant, 5-point vet, did not appeal, Aug/Sept OPM, NOR 11/15, ODAR interview 12/15, and didn't get a call last week. No one was hired in my cities (narrow GAL because of family responsibilities). I am hoping (a) that am not a top-3 applicant that they don't want, and (b) that one or more of my cities get in the next round. Thanks to all of you heroes for keeping this forum going. If I had not found you through a Google search after getting that first mysterious email from OPM in my spam box last June, I would have been lost in this maze. I first applied to OPM around 1993, so this is a long-time career goal. So here's my question: Has ODAR ever had concurrent training for new ALJs, such as FC and Baltimore? From what y'all have said, SSA will have to be creative to meet the 250 goal. Welcome!
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Post by jagvet on Jan 22, 2016 12:56:44 GMT -5
Thanks, Gary. Here's hoping to meet at the next class!
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Post by gary on Jan 22, 2016 12:57:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Gary. Here's hoping to meet at the next class! From your mouth to the Hiring Committee's ears! I hope to see you there.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jan 22, 2016 13:23:49 GMT -5
jagvet, love the avatar! Welcome aboard. As a fellow 5-pointer, you may not have actually been in the top three just yet. There's a bunch of 10 pointers who test and are not readily visible to us. Also, if there were no reported hires for your cities, then either a non-board member did get hired or no one got hired and you may get a call in a few months! Glass half full or half empty, your choice. Good luck!
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Post by Pixie on Jan 22, 2016 13:37:34 GMT -5
So here's my question: Has ODAR ever had concurrent training for new ALJs, such as FC and Baltimore? From what y'all have said, SSA will have to be creative to meet the 250 goal. Welcome to the Board JagVet. When I looked at your application to join, I believe you were the one who wrote a lengthy explanation of why you wanted to join the Board. It was the most complete explanation I have yet to receive. I knew it wouldn't be long before we heard from you. SSA has been creative in the past. I believe it was 2001 when they had a class of about 120 new judges all in one hotel in D.C. It was a mess. Not only does the agency want to hire 250 new judges this fiscal year, but 250 again next year and a little over half that number in the year after that. Hopefully many of you will get your shot in the next couple of years. To quote one of our favorite posters (No, it isn't JudgePumpkin), it is a very good time to be on the register. Pix.
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Post by jagvet on Jan 22, 2016 14:08:02 GMT -5
Thanks, Pixie! Very helpful and encouraging!
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