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Post by Propmaster on Jan 26, 2016 12:46:59 GMT -5
I think that given the time constraints of training, that they do ok. Training in Falls Church is not meant to be an all inclusive finite set of training on every issue. There are SO many nuances to this practice. Training in Falls Church is an "introduction" so to speak to be augmented by mentors, experienced writers who offer their assistance, HOCALJs, reading, researching, and more. Is the training perfect? No way. Got a better idea how to do it? Awesome. Submit the better way in writing. I am sure they would appreciate the ideas. This process is only as good as what we put into it. It's easy to pick apart a process but the harder part is offering a viable cost effective solution.
Propmaster you should volunteer for a training detail albeit for writers since only ALJs train ALJs. But it sounds like you have an interest. Oh gosh, I wish. I have applied a few times, but I have given up. I have edited materials in the past for my Regional Office to make sure they are policy compliant, but I am apparently not qualified to do training. This is despite stellar reviews for CLEs (which ODAR has stopped allowing without ridiculous hoop-jumping that can take months) and in-house trainings. They have also rejected my specific concerns with the training materials and errors within the materials submitted in writing and with specific references explaining why the errors are errors. I do not think the training cadre is as open to feedback as you think they are. And N.B.: I'm a bit curmudgeony on this board sometimes (all the time?), but I can write a professional feedback e-mail. Operations edits POMS on a fairly regular basis (a few times a year) based on my feedbacks. ODAR is a brick wall for me.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 26, 2016 13:58:34 GMT -5
I think that given the time constraints of training, that they do ok. Training in Falls Church is not meant to be an all inclusive finite set of training on every issue. There are SO many nuances to this practice. Training in Falls Church is an "introduction" so to speak to be augmented by mentors, experienced writers who offer their assistance, HOCALJs, reading, researching, and more. Is the training perfect? No way. Got a better idea how to do it? Awesome. Submit the better way in writing. I am sure they would appreciate the ideas. This process is only as good as what we put into it. It's easy to pick apart a process but the harder part is offering a viable cost effective solution.
Propmaster you should volunteer for a training detail albeit for writers since only ALJs train ALJs. But it sounds like you have an interest. Oh gosh, I wish. I have applied a few times, but I have given up. I have edited materials in the past for my Regional Office to make sure they are policy compliant, but I am apparently not qualified to do training. This is despite stellar reviews for CLEs (which ODAR has stopped allowing without ridiculous hoop-jumping that can take months) and in-house trainings. They have also rejected my specific concerns with the training materials and errors within the materials submitted in writing and with specific references explaining why the errors are errors. I do not think the training cadre is as open to feedback as you think they are. And N.B.: I'm a bit curmudgeony on this board sometimes (all the time?), but I can write a professional feedback e-mail. Operations edits POMS on a fairly regular basis (a few times a year) based on my feedbacks. ODAR is a brick wall for me. Please see my life rules. Never give up.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Jan 26, 2016 18:48:22 GMT -5
Offering ways to improve is not dependent on the adoption of the suggestion. Everyone is allowed to ignore a suggestion.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 27, 2016 11:14:14 GMT -5
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Post by Propmaster on Jan 27, 2016 17:48:33 GMT -5
Offering ways to improve is not dependent on the adoption of the suggestion. Everyone is allowed to ignore a suggestion. This is the kind of pithy but thought-provoking response that makes you sound wise. Or that demonstrates that you are wise. Or both.
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Post by hapi2balj on Jan 28, 2016 13:46:08 GMT -5
What I was suggesting was that the training be developed and tracked by at least one and possibly more professional trainers. I don't have a problem with ALJs doing the training, but they should have their caseloads lessened if they are training. I also think, as I said above, that the syllabus should be revamped from beginning (i.e. the training that begins on your first day in the office) to the end. I did not find a lot of it to be useful, or useful at the time it was presented. There was zero context for those of us who were not insiders. Most training programs take into account the fact that not everyone learns best the same way. The ALJ training program does not. There is also little time for consolidating learning. I think the agency should hire a training consultant to take a look at its programs. There's a lot of room for improvement. All this does not take away from the great ALJ trainers who do as good a job as they can with the material and mandates they are given. I was grateful for their interest and willingness to help us at all times. Also, I am very fortunate to have had an excellent mentor in my H.O., which has made everything so much easier. Does ODAR ever use the resources of the National Judicial College for ALJ training - even on a consultant level? As I'm sure many of you know, NJC and its sponsor, the University of Nevada, Reno, have developed quite the niche in schooling judges from all types of forums. Also, the University of Memphis used to have an excellent program, the Institute for Faculty Excellence in Judicial Education (IFEJE, spoken as "Iffy" although it was anything but iffy!). It was a focus on "how judges learn" and therefore how judges (including ALJs) most effectively can be trained. I say "used to" because as far as I know, sadly, funding dried up. Not sure what IEFJE-developed materials may be available or helpful, if those who directed the program are still active in the field, or if there may be something else like it elsewhere.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 28, 2016 18:53:59 GMT -5
What I was suggesting was that the training be developed and tracked by at least one and possibly more professional trainers. I don't have a problem with ALJs doing the training, but they should have their caseloads lessened if they are training. I also think, as I said above, that the syllabus should be revamped from beginning (i.e. the training that begins on your first day in the office) to the end. I did not find a lot of it to be useful, or useful at the time it was presented. There was zero context for those of us who were not insiders. Most training programs take into account the fact that not everyone learns best the same way. The ALJ training program does not. There is also little time for consolidating learning. I think the agency should hire a training consultant to take a look at its programs. There's a lot of room for improvement. All this does not take away from the great ALJ trainers who do as good a job as they can with the material and mandates they are given. I was grateful for their interest and willingness to help us at all times. Also, I am very fortunate to have had an excellent mentor in my H.O., which has made everything so much easier. Does ODAR ever use the resources of the National Judicial College for ALJ training - even on a consultant level? As I'm sure many of you know, NJC and its sponsor, the University of Nevada, Reno, have developed quite the niche in schooling judges from all types of forums. Also, the University of Memphis used to have an excellent program, the Institute for Faculty Excellence in Judicial Education (IFEJE, spoken as "Iffy" although it was anything but iffy!). It was a focus on "how judges learn" and therefore how judges (including ALJs) most effectively can be trained. I say "used to" because as far as I know, sadly, funding dried up. Not sure what IEFJE-developed materials may be available or helpful, if those who directed the program are still active in the field, or if there may be something else like it elsewhere. The instructors are all ALJs who are actively working as ODAR ALJs. The classes all pertain to SSA specific law. The classroom time is tight and there are many topics they do not have time to cover regarding specifics of non-disability cases. The area is so detailed and specific that I am not sure someone who is not an ALJ for the agency would be helpful. Knowledge of the computer programs we use is a must and an outside person would not be helpful.
EDIT: I think the reason these other judicial training places are successful is that they are probably focusing on civil procedure and the FRE and such. In the ODAR hearings, the FRE do not apply, and our procedures are specific to the individual agency. This is probably true for most administrative type hearings versus district and circuit courts.
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Post by christina on Jan 30, 2016 0:16:51 GMT -5
sad panda, thanks for doing the training. sounds like it can be thankless at times and i am sure there are others appreciate what all of you do to make the training happen.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jan 30, 2016 6:46:48 GMT -5
So it appears, there seems to be some slightly veiled dissing of the ODAR new ALJ trainers (in this and other threads). I'll say, we do the best we can. OCALJ and the DC office basically control the topics and presenters. The recent focus on Electronic Bench Book came directly from the Deputy Commissioners office. The New ALJ training cadre makes recommendations, but has little to no final say as to what is presented or the actual topics on the agenda. We adjust on the fly, trying to give the new ALJ's what they want and need while also meeting the demands of management. We also get no reduction in case load for weeks we train. Now, I do understand that there is inconsistency from week to week and between trainers. The training is taught by people who volunteer their time and, of course, the training team has to try out new trainers every class to find new training talent. Presentation styles differ, some work for the students, some don't. It's a fine line. The most legally proficient judges can make horrible presenters, the best presenters may not have a full and thorough understanding of the law. Rare are the trainers who know the law in depth and also can interest an audience. I've averaged 4 weeks a year for multiple years in Falls Church training new ALJ's. I know other trainers that have spent 8 to 12 weeks in a year. I really like it, but it's also a drain on my time and a strain on my case load. Still have to hit 500. The old saying is "those who can't, teach." Well, it's exactly the opposite for SSA ALJ trainers. I liked this so much I had to do more than just hit like!!! Thank you for all you do!!!
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Post by lizdarcy on Jan 31, 2016 21:10:21 GMT -5
This is in response to Sad Panda's post. I was the first to say that the new ALJ training could stand some improvement. I tried to be as clear as possible that this is not the fault of the trainers, whom I appreciated very much. No diss here for the trainers. Most of the trainers in my new ALJ class did a great job within the limitations of their mandates and materials.
I don't think the trainers should be expected to keep up the same caseload as those who stay in their offices and work. My objection to the trainers working on the computers at the back of the room was misunderstood; I object because the trainers should not have to worry about making their 500. They are already working during their week as a trainer, so why expect them to do double the work? That's neither right nor fair.
There are things that could be changed for the better at ODAR. The new ALJ training is one of them. If no one ever pointed out shortcomings, things would never improve. Closing one's eyes to reality and pretending that everything is okay -- or insisting that it must be okay because that's the way it's always been done -- is not the best way to run an effective organization.
When organizations give their employees roles in training and management, they ought to provide professional training before their employees undertake that work. Not everyone is cut out for either role, not everyone magically knows how to do it well by osmosis. I also think employee-training programs ought to be created, developed and directed by professional trainers, although I have no problem with ALJs doing the actual training if they are using professionally-developed materials.
I realize that my observations do not jibe with this organization's culture. That doesn't necessarily mean they are incorrect.
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Post by Pixie on Feb 1, 2016 9:14:43 GMT -5
This is a long thread, and I haven't gone back to see if the June 27 date has been confirmed. The following links seem to confirm that date. Thanks to a board member for the information. "I read an article in the local paper that suggests one of our county circuit judges was selected for the Feb 8th start / Feb 29th training class but was able to defer her start date until June 26th. here are the links to the articles - first about her selection as an ALJ for SSA - www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20160116/NEWS/160119679and second about her deferred start date being granted - www.macombdaily.com/government-and-politics/20160122/scary-marys-delayed-departure-impacts-judicial-electionIt appears she is headed to an ODAR in Florida somewhere. So it appears that June 26th is a legitimate date for the next class. Whether that's a start date at the ODAR or a start date for FC training, the article does not say."
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 1, 2016 9:23:53 GMT -5
I do not believe we had any confirmation. I am glad to hear a confirmation and thank you to the anonymous poster.
If Scary Mary is on this board I want to wish her congratulations on getting the job and getting it somewhere warm.
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Post by keepsake on Feb 1, 2016 9:25:36 GMT -5
"Scary Mary" and talk of Hollywood - now those are some interesting articles.
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 2, 2016 11:24:00 GMT -5
Just received word that the transfer list is being worked.
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Post by sealaw90 on Feb 2, 2016 11:39:52 GMT -5
Great news, thanks for the Intel G.
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Post by gary on Feb 2, 2016 11:41:28 GMT -5
And thanks to your anonymous source!
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Post by fingerscrossed on Feb 2, 2016 12:13:05 GMT -5
Just received word that the transfer list is being worked. Thanks, Gaidin sounds like a new cert may be close at hand that takes into account the GALs that were updated last week. Last time they worked the transfer list for about a month. This may mean also that NORs for my group are imminent since it seemed SSA wanted to wait until new individuals were added to the register before a new cert was issued.
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Post by christina on Feb 2, 2016 12:14:20 GMT -5
Just received word that the transfer list is being worked. Any updated WAGS as to when the Oct-Dec test group can anticipate a NOR based on this info? thanks.
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 2, 2016 12:30:33 GMT -5
Definitely thanks to the anonymous source.
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 2, 2016 12:40:13 GMT -5
Just received word that the transfer list is being worked. Any updated WAGS as to when the Oct-Dec test group can anticipate a NOR based on this info? thanks. If this portends imminent certs then I posit it means one of two things and I honestly have no clue which (if either) is more likely. SWAG1 - They are about to make another run at the existing certs. Perhaps pulling refreshed certs from the people with NORs today but that would give them the full updated GAL lists that were not available to them in November. This explains the large number of cities with no hires off the November certs. It also reflects the agency's stated desire to keep the hiring train moving. When the new NORs are issued it will require significant time and resources to conduct interviews. This would allow ODAR to fill or partially fill a class with significantly fewer new interviews. While this is the most likely scenario for me to get a job it doesn't feel right based upon the other limited information we have. SWAG2 - OPM has told ODAR that the NORs will be released soon (next 10 business days or so). ODAR intends to get certs in ASAP on the tail of that release so it can begin interviewing. This feels right except it means that things are moving quickly something that has been rare to unheard of in this process and that ODAR will have plenty of time to conduct its hiring something that hasn't occurred since the first round of 2014 hires.
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