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Post by malshalj on Feb 3, 2016 16:39:10 GMT -5
Egh. 33%? I'm hoping those of us that are fluent in Spanish might have somewhat of a better chance - really hoping, that is - as I'm not the greatest standardized test-taker and do much better with actual practice of the law. I am also hoping the pool of candidates is smaller for places like Ponce or Mayguez, PR - I hear they're not as exciting as San Juan but not that far away either. Or maybe even Harlingen, TX. Not that great a place but it'd be a start!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 17:24:18 GMT -5
Thanks! 33% over three years is both exciting and depressing.
My GAL is basically east coast and southern states (~20 states total). Does that impact my 33% chance much, if I am not open to all the country? East coast and Southern states seems large to me, but I am new and need to learn a lot from this forum's many wise people!
Do you have Tupelo and Middlesboro on your list? If so you will pop up on a cert after that its up to you. I will have them on my list. While I am currently at SSA HQ in Woodlawn, I am originally from Alabama and wouldn't mind being in any state bordering it, or the east coast. So I basically a straight line from Dallas to NYC and everything East of the line will be on my GAL. I am not opposed to any of those small towns. So fingers crossed I get that chance one day.
The marathon version of an obstacle course race is called a "Beast" so I'll say its a Beast not a Sprint. More accurate than Marathon not a Sprint. lol 
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Post by sealaw90 on Feb 3, 2016 20:17:35 GMT -5
"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain Yes, especially if one can listen to one opera for six (seems like 10) hours straight. Despite being a season ticket holder to my local opera company, I tend to avoid any production of the Ring cycle - it is 10+ hours of a mostly dark stage. Soporific indeed! Give me Verdi over Wagner ( do I hear a new thread - Operas I loved/hated???)  |
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Post by ba on Feb 3, 2016 21:28:19 GMT -5
I feel someone should point out that if you are in contention for a slot and one of the people who scored higher than you is a vet and you are not, the vet is required to recieve the offer. But fear not, if the agency likes you, they will try to find a way to get you, even if it can't be for that slot.
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Post by Pixie on Feb 3, 2016 21:41:57 GMT -5
I feel someone should point out that if you are in contention for a slot and one of the people who scored higher than you is a vet and you are not, the vet is required to receive the offer. But fear not, if the agency likes you, they will try to find a way to get you, even if it can't be for that slot. Yes and no, but that is a topic for another day. And you are exactly right about the last point in the post. Pix. |
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Post by aljwishhope on Feb 4, 2016 6:47:52 GMT -5
Really agree with Gaidan. I feel like since I was able to test in DC I have "a shot" a long shot. A very slim shot. The competition is stiff. If it happens Yeah!! But I am making alternate careers plans in the meantime - trying to build my resume. Will try again in a few years if this is not my time.
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Post by quesera on Feb 4, 2016 8:30:02 GMT -5
Really agree with Gaidan. I feel like since I was able to test in DC I have "a shot" a long shot. A very slim shot. The competition is stiff. If it happens Yeah!! But I am making alternate careers plans in the meantime - trying to build my resume. Will try again in a few years if this is not my time. Good attitude to have! I'm in the fall 2015 DC group as well. When it was time to choose the GAL, discussing it with Mr. Quesera was like pulling teeth, as he was unsure about relocating, even short term. So I told him, "If I have a decent score, IF I get an interview with the agency, and IF I don't bomb the interview, this is kind of like a lottery with reasonably good odds. But we have to play several tickets to be in the game." Not exactly a perfect explanation, but it drove the point home. |
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Post by lizdarcy on Feb 4, 2016 9:24:27 GMT -5
I always like to remind people that once you are hired for a HO, you actually have to stay there. Now you will have to stay there for a minimum of 15 months and probably longer. You need to be very sure you can handle that.
I had half a dozen HOs in the NY metro area on my GAL. I was passed over in a few rounds but eventually was hired. You never know how the chips will fall, where people are needed, where existing ALJs will want to transfer.
There's a place in life for the Ring Cycle, which I admire. But I like to watch and hear Verdi and Puccini more. I'm going to see the new production of Manon Lescaut at the Met in a few weeks.
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 4, 2016 9:50:28 GMT -5
I always like to remind people that once you are hired for a HO, you actually have to stay there. Now you will have to stay there for a minimum of 15 months and probably longer. You need to be very sure you can handle that. I want to stress this be willing to stay there for a while. As I understand the CBA and the way the transfer list works you are actually looking at a minimum of 17 - 18 months at the original HO and very likely much longer. You cannot put your name on the transfer list until you have been an ALJ 15 months. After that you can place your name on the list for 5 locations. If they decide to allow transfers to a location that you are on the list for they give priority to the people who have been on the list the longest. If they work down to you and you accept the transfer you will be able to transfer after a certain period of time but I believe it is between 30 days and 6 months but I could be very wrong on that. Factors such as the hearing office you are leavings needs and the hearing office you are going to's needs determine how fast that transfer takes place. Popular locations tend to have long wait lists and with new hires now needing to spend 15 months on station it will slow down the transfer process some. |
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Post by lizdarcy on Feb 4, 2016 10:55:19 GMT -5
When a spot in a HO needs to be filled, everyone on the reassignment list for that location will get an email asking for their interest. After 5 days, the ALJs who said they are willing to transfer will be considered according to their order on the list. Once you accept a transfer, you can expect to be at your new location within 45 days. However, that date depends on a lot of variables, including the time it takes OPM to approve the transfer. If you are taking the place of an ALJ who is also transferring, you might not go to the new HO until that ALJ moves on. It could be 3 weeks or 3 months.
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Post by anotherfed on Feb 4, 2016 11:43:54 GMT -5
My understanding is that they do not "advertise" a vacancy until the door hits the retiring or transferring ALJ on his way out. After that, the HO can check the transfer list, etc. My transfer had to be completed within 45 days of the official offer. I don't know if my experience is the usual one.
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Post by lizdarcy on Feb 4, 2016 12:30:04 GMT -5
It might depend on the region or the circumstances. It has not always worked out that way. I'm sure your experience is most typical, though.
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Post by jiaalk on Feb 4, 2016 12:51:55 GMT -5
Egh. 33%? I'm hoping those of us that are fluent in Spanish might have somewhat of a better chance - really hoping, that is - as I'm not the greatest standardized test-taker and do much better with actual practice of the law. I am also hoping the pool of candidates is smaller for places like Ponce or Mayguez, PR - I hear they're not as exciting as San Juan but not that far away either. Or maybe even Harlingen, TX. Not that great a place but it'd be a start! Other than Puerto Rico, are there offices that require an ALJ to have Spanish fluency? btw, Ponce is a 90 minute drive from San Juan, but Mayaguez is over 2 hours (w/o traffic). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:32:03 GMT -5
Egh. 33%? I'm hoping those of us that are fluent in Spanish might have somewhat of a better chance - really hoping, that is - as I'm not the greatest standardized test-taker and do much better with actual practice of the law. I am also hoping the pool of candidates is smaller for places like Ponce or Mayguez, PR - I hear they're not as exciting as San Juan but not that far away either. Or maybe even Harlingen, TX. Not that great a place but it'd be a start! Other than Puerto Rico, are there offices that require an ALJ to have Spanish fluency? btw, Ponce is a 90 minute drive from San Juan, but Mayaguez is over 2 hours (w/o traffic). My two vacations to PR left me feeling like its a paradise that I would never hate being assigned there. Maybe I am wrong, but all the PR locations are going to be on my list... |
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Post by Youngblood Priest on Feb 4, 2016 16:05:44 GMT -5
I do not believe you can calculate your odds of getting the job. I will say that if we are calculating the odds from hitting submit on the application then they are much, much lower than 33% and probably in the 1% range. When I applied in 2013 approximately 6,000 people applied. Only about 1,200 (and probably less) were invited to DC for testing in 2013. Of those folks less than 500 have been hired. You have to make it through testing with an NOR score. Many fine attorneys did not make it through. You have to have an NOR score high enough to get you an interview. You have to have a GAL wide enough to get you interviewed. Then in that interview you need to be so impressive that they recommend you for hiring. Then your NOR has to be high enough to get you into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. Then you have to be more impressive than the other 2 people you are in the top 3 with. And then they still aren't obligated to hire you. I don't know how you calculate those odds. ** For almost three years I have been reading that this is a marathon and not a sprint. After reviewing the above and giving this some thought I have decided it is more like the show Ninja Warrior. ** Now I'm confused about steps four and five. I thought they were mutually exclusive - in other words, that you might have tanked the interview and gotten a DNH rating, yet based on your NOR, you can still get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. But, as written above, it is implied that if you then get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL, ipso facto you must have been recommended for hiring after your interview. Which is correct? Or is that unknowable? |
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Post by gary on Feb 4, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
I do not believe you can calculate your odds of getting the job. I will say that if we are calculating the odds from hitting submit on the application then they are much, much lower than 33% and probably in the 1% range. When I applied in 2013 approximately 6,000 people applied. Only about 1,200 (and probably less) were invited to DC for testing in 2013. Of those folks less than 500 have been hired. You have to make it through testing with an NOR score. Many fine attorneys did not make it through. You have to have an NOR score high enough to get you an interview. You have to have a GAL wide enough to get you interviewed. Then in that interview you need to be so impressive that they recommend you for hiring. Then your NOR has to be high enough to get you into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. Then you have to be more impressive than the other 2 people you are in the top 3 with. And then they still aren't obligated to hire you. I don't know how you calculate those odds. ** For almost three years I have been reading that this is a marathon and not a sprint. After reviewing the above and giving this some thought I have decided it is more like the show Ninja Warrior. ** Now I'm confused about steps four and five. I thought they were mutually exclusive - in other words, that you might have tanked the interview and gotten a DNH rating, yet based on your NOR, you can still get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. But, as written above, it is implied that if you then get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL, ipso facto you must have been recommended for hiring after your interview. Which is correct? Or is that unknowable? They are mutually exclusive. |
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Post by montyburns on Feb 4, 2016 18:20:58 GMT -5
Do you have Tupelo and Middlesboro on your list? If so you will pop up on a cert after that its up to you. I will have them on my list. While I am currently at SSA HQ in Woodlawn, I am originally from Alabama and wouldn't mind being in any state bordering it, or the east coast. So I basically a straight line from Dallas to NYC and everything East of the line will be on my GAL. I am not opposed to any of those small towns. So fingers crossed I get that chance one day.
The marathon version of an obstacle course race is called a "Beast" so I'll say its a Beast not a Sprint. More accurate than Marathon not a Sprint. lol
Soldak, if you are 10-point vet, have 10 years of experience outside the agency, and are now an insider and are liked by management and the ALJs, you have every conceivable advantage you can possibly have (and can apply at your leisure). Now if your mangers/ALJs don't like you, well that pretty much negates the first two advantages. |
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 4, 2016 19:16:14 GMT -5
I do not believe you can calculate your odds of getting the job. I will say that if we are calculating the odds from hitting submit on the application then they are much, much lower than 33% and probably in the 1% range. When I applied in 2013 approximately 6,000 people applied. Only about 1,200 (and probably less) were invited to DC for testing in 2013. Of those folks less than 500 have been hired. You have to make it through testing with an NOR score. Many fine attorneys did not make it through. You have to have an NOR score high enough to get you an interview. You have to have a GAL wide enough to get you interviewed. Then in that interview you need to be so impressive that they recommend you for hiring. Then your NOR has to be high enough to get you into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. Then you have to be more impressive than the other 2 people you are in the top 3 with. And then they still aren't obligated to hire you. I don't know how you calculate those odds. ** For almost three years I have been reading that this is a marathon and not a sprint. After reviewing the above and giving this some thought I have decided it is more like the show Ninja Warrior. ** Now I'm confused about steps four and five. I thought they were mutually exclusive - in other words, that you might have tanked the interview and gotten a DNH rating, yet based on your NOR, you can still get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. But, as written above, it is implied that if you then get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL, ipso facto you must have been recommended for hiring after your interview. Which is correct? Or is that unknowable? I screwed up. Instead of "then" in 5 I should have said "and". |
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Post by Pixie on Feb 4, 2016 19:19:43 GMT -5
Youngblood Priest said: "Now I'm confused about steps four and five. I thought they were mutually exclusive - in other words, that you might have tanked the interview and gotten a DNH rating, yet based on your NOR, you can still get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL. But, as written above, it is implied that if you then get into the top 3 for a location on your GAL, ipso facto you must have been recommended for hiring after your interview. Which is correct? Or is that unknowable?"
There are two separate interviews, the first by OPM and the second by SSA. The OPM interview is numerically scored and is part of the final score determined by OPM. This score determines if the candidate will make the top three for a certificate, or certificates, sent to SSA. OPM does not assign a rating of "DNH." That is left to the agency. OPM gives a numerical rating.
Once a candidate is on a certificate, she is now being considered for a location for which she is one of three candidates for that location. Then and only then, comes the interview with SSA. That is where the recommendation for hiring (or not) comes into play.
Hope this helps. Any more questions? Just ask. Pixie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2016 7:53:20 GMT -5
Soldak, if you are 10-point vet, have 10 years of experience outside the agency, and are now an insider and are liked by management and the ALJs, you have every conceivable advantage you can possibly have (and can apply at your leisure). Now if your mangers/ALJs don't like you, well that pretty much negates the first two advantages. My managers seems to like me. But who really knows.
Interesting issue from mentioning whether "my" ALJs like me,
I write at one of the new NCACs. (National Case Assistance Centers). I actually write for hundreds of different ALJs. I'm in my 2nd year and don't remember writing for the same ALJ twice. I don't have ALJ relationships even though I'm an "insider." However, I have been exposed to so many different and conceivable ways for ALJs to do instructions and to decide cases that I would like to feel it better prepares me than writing for the same handful of ALJs.
Do the hundreds of NCAC writers have a disadvantage in the application process compared to "insiders" with ALJ relationships?
(P.S. I am awaiting my 10 point vet paperwork to process at the VA. I only have 5 pt at the moment or I would have already applied.)
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