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Post by JudgeKnot on Jul 12, 2017 12:55:15 GMT -5
Not asking how to frame an issue; that time has passed for me. I was just curious to know whether history here recorded someone successfully moving from a FOAD to an offer. My guess is that it's a real long shot.
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Post by Pixie on Jul 12, 2017 14:18:09 GMT -5
Not asking how to frame an issue; that time has passed for me. I was just curious to know whether history here recorded someone successfully moving from a FOAD to an offer. My guess is that it's a real long shot. If you get a NOR without a score, appeal and win on appeal, there is nothing to keep you from getting an offer if all of the other cards fall into place.
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Post by southerngal on Jul 12, 2017 14:48:30 GMT -5
Appeal done. I have one assignee--a gs12 human resource manager. Wonder why some are getting 2 assignees and others 1? I appealed and got an emailed reply from one person - didn't give GS rank, just their name.
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Post by paddlingon on Jul 13, 2017 15:08:00 GMT -5
I've searched for the term on this thread and don't see anything on the issue of remand. The Panel also has the authority to "remand for further development". Is this particular authority used very often? If it is used, does anyone know what situations are most likely to be granted relief in the form of remand?
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Post by foghorn on Jul 14, 2017 14:42:11 GMT -5
I imagine that they would either have them look at the person's documents if it's a document bounce (bar admission etc) or possibly remand to rescore. You'll know when and if it happens. (you are, after all asking for answers from a system that reviews the record on appeal--but you don't get to see the record). Make your best argument, get it filed today, pray, light candles, whatever your faith suggests. And then focus on your plan B so if it happens you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by foghorn on Jul 14, 2017 17:08:39 GMT -5
REMINDER --DEADLINE TO APPEAL TODAY (assuming you received your FOAD on June 14)
Happy Bastille Day!
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Post by alohastate on Jul 14, 2017 19:38:41 GMT -5
Appeal is in.
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Post by foghorn on Jul 14, 2017 20:11:18 GMT -5
I note for any still getting theirs in that you may want to double space between paragraphs. Mine came out in a two line paragraph, then a compaction of several paragraphs, another compaction, and a few line copaction of 3 paragraphs.
I have asked if I may reformat, but I know the answer.
Note: time runs from the date of the notice of your appeal rights, not from date of FOAD (aka "No NOR for you!") So if you got your FOAD on the 13th, and notice of appeal rights the 14th, you have time yet.
A one paragraph cri-du-coer is better than nothing.
Good luck to all! May they find us all appealing!
Once you've emailed it in, you will get a notice of receipt with a copy of what you filed (after you have created a secure mail account). It says it's only available for a short time, so I suggest you inspect the text and then copy it as it may not be there for long.
Happy trails to all of you!
When you get results, whether this month, this year, next year, post it here. Thanks!
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Post by alohastate on Jul 14, 2017 22:24:03 GMT -5
I note for any still getting theirs in that you may want to double space between paragraphs. Mine came out in a two line paragraph, then a compaction of several paragraphs, another compaction, and a few line copaction of 3 paragraphs. I have asked if I may reformat, but I know the answer. Note: time runs from the date of the notice of your appeal rights, not from date of FOAD (aka "No NOR for you!") So if you got your FOAD on the 13th, and notice of appeal rights the 14th, you have time yet. A one paragraph cri-du-coer is better than nothing. Good luck to all! May they find us all appealing! Once you've emailed it in, you will get a notice of receipt with a copy of what you filed (after you have created a secure mail account). It says it's only available for a short time, so I suggest you inspect the text and then copy it as it may not be there for long. Happy trails to all of you! When you get results, whether this month, this year, next year, post it here. Thanks! Technically, the FOAD letter is our NOR.
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Post by gary on Jul 14, 2017 22:29:22 GMT -5
I note for any still getting theirs in that you may want to double space between paragraphs. Mine came out in a two line paragraph, then a compaction of several paragraphs, another compaction, and a few line copaction of 3 paragraphs. I have asked if I may reformat, but I know the answer. Note: time runs from the date of the notice of your appeal rights, not from date of FOAD (aka "No NOR for you!") So if you got your FOAD on the 13th, and notice of appeal rights the 14th, you have time yet. A one paragraph cri-du-coer is better than nothing. Good luck to all! May they find us all appealing! Once you've emailed it in, you will get a notice of receipt with a copy of what you filed (after you have created a secure mail account). It says it's only available for a short time, so I suggest you inspect the text and then copy it as it may not be there for long. Happy trails to all of you! When you get results, whether this month, this year, next year, post it here. Thanks! Technically, the FOAD letter is our NOR. You are correct. What you got was an NOR telling you why you did not get a final numerical rating. On the Board we have used FOAD not for a no-score NOR, but rather for notification from a hiring agency that despite being on a cert we were not hired.
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Post by JenMPR on Jul 15, 2017 10:17:58 GMT -5
Hello everyone! I've been too busy to follow the thread (or post anything), but for the record: - Tested on Nov 16, 2016 - Received my FOAD on June 13, 2017 (did not pass the WD) - Emailed appeal on July 7, 2017. Did not attach separate document. (Just a short email). - Received confirmation that same day and appeal was assigned to 2 OPM employees (2 separate emails).
Now I will forget about it until I receive a final decision (whenever that may be).
It's been a fun ride, but I believe this is the end of the line for me.
Good luck to all!!!!
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Post by acttwo on Jul 15, 2017 11:29:36 GMT -5
Hello everyone! I've been too busy to follow the thread (or post anything), but for the record: - Tested on Nov 16, 2016 - Received my FOAD on June 13, 2017 (did not pass the WD) - Emailed appeal on July 7, 2017. Did not attach separate document. (Just a short email). - Received confirmation that same day and appeal was assigned to 2 OPM employees (2 separate emails). Now I will forget about it until I receive a final decision (whenever that may be). It's been a fun ride, but I believe this is the end of the line for me. Good luck to all!!!! Pretty much my identical process, but will keep hope alive. I keep trying to move forward in other areas. But, wow, it would/could be so awesome and a very welcome life change.
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Post by Thru Hiker on Jul 15, 2017 13:51:56 GMT -5
Hello everyone! I've been too busy to follow the thread (or post anything), but for the record: - Tested on Nov 16, 2016 - Received my FOAD on June 13, 2017 (did not pass the WD) - Emailed appeal on July 7, 2017. Did not attach separate document. (Just a short email). - Received confirmation that same day and appeal was assigned to 2 OPM employees (2 separate emails). Now I will forget about it until I receive a final decision (whenever that may be). It's been a fun ride, but I believe this is the end of the line for me. Good luck to all!!!! Pretty much my identical process, but will keep hope alive. I keep trying to move forward in other areas. But, wow, it would/could be so awesome and a very welcome life change. There is enough uncertainty in this process that we all should be looking at the bright side of our current situations. I am one of the lucky ones who got a NOR, but lower score and not Cert'd this go round. I might make the 2nd Cert, but realistically my earliest likely opportunity will be the third Cert for this pool. This gives me more time to get my life in order, and there is enough disorder right now that I am actually grateful for not getting a cert. 500 cases per year, if you are conscientious, will be demanding. Use the time you have now to enjoy life balance, get yourself ready for this gig -- there will be continuing need for ALJs to replace those who retire, and the backlog isn't going anywhere soon. Look at some who have been on the Board for decades, and took a decade or more to get to an ALJ post. If you look at the age distribution of the ALJ NOR pool, you will realize that even some of them will retire or otherwise take themselves out of the pool within the next two years. Congress may change the hiring process. So hopefully you will take the long view that this is a process that may take 5 years, 10 years, and it is the service you will render when you do make it to the cadre that matters, not the time it took to get there. And maybe that process will change, quickly, and open doors for you that seem closed now. Every bit of experience you get between now and then will inform your experience as an ALJ. Please keep in touch!
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Post by foghorn on Jul 16, 2017 22:14:42 GMT -5
Technically, the FOAD letter is our NOR. You are correct. What you got was an NOR telling you why you did not get a final numerical rating. On the Board we have used FOAD not for a no-score NOR, but rather for notification from a hiring agency that despite being on a cert we were not hired. The definition of "nor" is quite appropriate to NOR as a form of FOAD and NOR as a precursor to another game of wait and ....wait again....grasping at isolated shafts of sunlight, thus: "Nor.......used before the second or further of two or more alternatives (the first being introduced by a negative such as “neither” or “not”) to indicate that they are each untrue or each do not happen." So good to know that after the Foad-sounding NOR you can have a real FOAD notice--the cuts of a thousand deaths?
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Post by foghorn on Jul 16, 2017 22:21:14 GMT -5
Perhaps appropriate for the appeals thread is that George Romero, creator of the zombie genre just passed*.
Night of the living thread?
*but given his creation will he be.....undead?
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Post by Pixie on Jul 17, 2017 6:53:20 GMT -5
Technically, the FOAD letter is our NOR. You are correct. What you got was an NOR telling you why you did not get a final numerical rating. On the Board we have used FOAD not for a no-score NOR, but rather for notification from a hiring agency that despite being on a cert we were not hired. Thank you. I wanted to say this when the term FOAD was first inappropriately used to describe receiving a NOR without a score. I didn't do so as I didn't want to be considered a FOAD Nazi (think Seinfeld). Now that Gary has become the FOAD Nazi, I will support him in his pursuit of FOAD correctness. So, in the interest of correctness and proper understanding, let's limit the use of FOAD to the letter one receives from SSA: "So sorry but you won't be joining our Agency for this certificate." The NOR with no score for the register received from OPM is not a FOAD letter. Pixie
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Post by foghorn on Jul 17, 2017 20:36:37 GMT -5
You are correct. What you got was an NOR telling you why you did not get a final numerical rating. On the Board we have used FOAD not for a no-score NOR, but rather for notification from a hiring agency that despite being on a cert we were not hired. Thank you. I wanted to say this when the term FOAD was first inappropriately used to describe receiving a NOR without a score. I didn't do so as I didn't want to be considered a FOAD Nazi (think Seinfeld). Now that Gary has become the FOAD Nazi, I will support him in his pursuit of FOAD correctness. So, in the interest of correctness and proper understanding, let's limit the use of FOAD to the letter one receives from SSA: "So sorry but you won't be joining our Agency for this certificate." The NOR with no score for the register received from OPM is not a FOAD letter. Pixie Though it can sure feel like it--tough to ignor the realities, to foad your aspirations into the slim and none appellate process(sic), taking the shoe leather express down the road to wherever it may lead, neither anxious nor extatic.
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Post by acttwo on Jul 27, 2017 17:51:40 GMT -5
Thank you. I wanted to say this when the term FOAD was first inappropriately used to describe receiving a NOR without a score. I didn't do so as I didn't want to be considered a FOAD Nazi (think Seinfeld). Now that Gary has become the FOAD Nazi, I will support him in his pursuit of FOAD correctness. So, in the interest of correctness and proper understanding, let's limit the use of FOAD to the letter one receives from SSA: "So sorry but you won't be joining our Agency for this certificate." The NOR with no score for the register received from OPM is not a FOAD letter. Pixie Though it can sure feel like it--tough to ignor the realities, to foad your aspirations into the slim and none appellate process(sic), taking the shoe leather express down the road to wherever it may lead, neither anxious nor extatic. You're right, Foghorn. It sure does feel like it. Just a kind of "meh" feeling with the appeal. The hard part is the long wait for the No score which just makes it harder when it comes. But I will never argue with the Lady Pixie nor the deity that is known as Gary.
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Post by acttwo on Aug 1, 2017 13:02:58 GMT -5
So, just learned that NONE of "my" posse got a NOR. There are two others I know who tried, one a State ALJ who told me immediately that she hadn't passed. Yesterday I learned the other, a litigator with SSA and very bright person, also was dinged. So, 0 for 3 on this end, but only 2 of us are appealing. The score, that is. All 3 of us are, of course, VERY attractive human beings. Dunno if I should take comfort in the wash-out or not.
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Post by foghorn on Aug 3, 2017 10:51:42 GMT -5
ActTwo-- I can assure you as my group of SI rejects are all experienced litgators of many many years, sagacious, witty, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful, brave & reverent (mostly clean, too!).
As a Group W Bench we make a worthy lot!
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