jcse
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Post by jcse on Mar 16, 2013 15:47:57 GMT -5
Has anyone out there changed careers after becoming an ALJ? I would be interested to hear where you went from here, and what you did?
Do ALJs have "transferable skills" to other jobs in govt., if we don't want to take the private practice route? Are we eligible for SES jobs?
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Post by factfinder on Mar 16, 2013 20:35:55 GMT -5
Yes.
I know a judge who retired and earns more than twice what he earned in capped ALJ pay (non SSA job) and works fewer hours, travels comfortably, and enjoys life.
Not the rule, but it can be done. Also, some SSA judges retire and are very picky in who they represent before ODAR and do so effectively.
Also, once you retire, you can accomplish whatever works best for you.
Bottom line, live for the present. ODAR or whatever are good jobs and although the work is hard, you are doing necessary and important work.
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jcse
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Posts: 101
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Post by jcse on Mar 17, 2013 15:08:57 GMT -5
Thanks, FF, but you did not say what the ALJ is doing? practicing law? handling disability cases?
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Post by factfinder on Mar 17, 2013 18:21:47 GMT -5
JCSE - you are right
He is at a big law firm and as happy as can be. Both sides are getting value.
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Post by elmerfuddgantry on Mar 17, 2013 18:44:53 GMT -5
That makes sense if he worked for an agency adjudicating cases involving large amounts of private-client money, for example: - Commodity Futures Trading Commission
- Environmental Protection Agency
- Federal Aviation Administration
- Federal Communications Commission
- Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
- Federal Trade Commission
- Food and Drug Administration
- National Transportation Safety Board
- Nuclear Regulatory Commission
- Office of Financial Institution Adjudication
- Patent and Trademark Office
- Securities and Exchange Commission
At most other agencies, the work is pretty much a pro bono effort. Not enough money involved to entice a big firm to hire a former ALJ at a large salary. Don't get me wrong -- the work is necessary, there is just no money in it for private law firms.
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Post by chinook on Mar 18, 2013 9:44:04 GMT -5
Elmer, your analysis is interesting but I would not take it to the bank. A number of the agencies you listed don't have ALJs. The FAA is part of DOT who has the ALJs. They hear cases other than aviation cases. The NRC and the PTO do not have ALJs. They have "administrative" judges that are not ALJs. The CFTC and the FDA are "authorized" ALJs but the positions have been vacant for a while. Perhaps two of the agencies that you didn't mention that, in my view, have "big law firm transfer power" are the NLRB and the International Trade Commission. While I agree that SSA ALJs may not have great "big law firm transfer power" most of the other agencies have specialized firms (and practice areas of firms) that would gladly hire ALJs. Many of those are in big law firms.
The bigger issue is the thought of leaving the ALJ service. Non-SSA Judges that don't like their agency or practice area can frequently find a position in another agency. I see the job as a "terminal" position rather than a steppingstone. However, if you are an ALJ and want to go back into practice, I expect you can.
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Post by aljmaybe on Mar 18, 2013 12:14:07 GMT -5
Are we eligible for SES jobs? Going back to the original post - Does ALJ time qualify an individual for applying to the SES development program? One would think it is at least comparable to a GS-14 position, which is the minimum requirement to apply to the SES development program, but we all know that what should be and what actually is in SSA/federal government are two different things.
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Post by bartleby on Mar 18, 2013 13:06:16 GMT -5
I would doubt if being an ALJ would do anything for the SES program. That is primarily management and most ALJ's don't manage anything and classified as professionals, ie, not trained in management.. It's like going from being a widget maker to being a widget counter. Very little overlapping experience..
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Post by elmerfuddgantry on Mar 18, 2013 14:08:05 GMT -5
How the heck should I know where ALJs work? I just cut-and-pasted from this page and weeded out the agencies that did not look profitable for private-practice firms. I'm no expert, but I cannot see a big firm paying large dollars for an ODAR ALJ absent some extraordinary circumstances.
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Post by privateatty on Mar 18, 2013 16:31:10 GMT -5
How the heck should I know where ALJs work? I just cut-and-pasted from this page and weeded out the agencies that did not look profitable for private-practice firms. I'm no expert, but I cannot see a big firm paying large dollars for an ODAR ALJ absent some extraordinary circumstances. Go to the Appendices of this Report for a list of where all ALJs are working and their numbers as of 2010: oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-05-12-22144.pdf
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2013 17:09:16 GMT -5
I know a retired ALJ who makes a decent buck as an arbitrator on a part time basis.
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jcse
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Posts: 101
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Post by jcse on Apr 16, 2013 10:48:06 GMT -5
Does anyone know if an ALJ at lets say, an AL-3 grade, would be eligible for a GS-15 position??
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Post by onepingonly on Apr 16, 2013 12:52:48 GMT -5
Does anyone know if an ALJ at lets say, an AL-3 grade, would be eligible for a GS-15 position?? In what series? 905 attorney? Each vacancy has its own minimal qualifications and usually some desired experience. A 15 position might require, for example, at least 12 months service in the related GS-14 post. Sometimes they allow for some kind of equivalence, sometimes not. Most 15s run programs and supervise offices. The majority of ALJs I know don't have such experience. They might meet minimal quals to apply, but will not be very competitive, especially against any veterans who apply. ALJ work is closer to Administrative Judge/Hearing Examiner, which generally ranges from GS -12 to 14. In some agencies, this work is capped at 13. ALJ work by itself probably does not transfer very readily to any federal jobs outside the 905 series, not even to many jobs in the 905 series. Prior litigation experience likely translates well, and HR technically does not care how old the experience is.
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Post by workdrone on Apr 16, 2013 15:26:05 GMT -5
ALJ pay is pegged to the lowest level of SES pay. So GS-15 pay would actually be a demotion if locality pay is equal.
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Post by karaj on Dec 30, 2014 22:46:14 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all.
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Post by Missundaztood on Dec 30, 2014 23:52:31 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all. Good luck, karaj. I hope you find a job that meets your expectations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 8:07:35 GMT -5
"You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses." Interesting perspective and to each their own path. For over two decades as a solo practitioner, I was 100% responsible for finding, handling, typing, processing all cases on my own, being continually bothered (sometimes harrassed by clients) who were totally insensitive to any other cases than their own, constantly pressured by federal courts to meet schedules under threat of sanctions and facing billing demands 24/7/365 with absolutely no holidays, vacation or time off. In comparison as an ALJ, this past week has been the 1st time in 20 years I have had an actual real vacation (and even more unbelievable.. being paid while off work!) with no worries about clients, calls, emails, deadlines, or most importantly office bills. When working as an ALJ, I am provided an office, furniture, supplies, phone, computer, software and clerical staff all at no cost to me. (Totally a foreign concept for a solo practitioner who who must pay out of pocket for every tiny expense). I am provided numerous paid holidays, credit hours, sick leave hours, religious comp time, and can telework if desired all the while with understanding that work stays at work and does not come home, and with a guaranteed check coming every two weeks, and then even more so with additional govt contributions to a retirement fund as well as drastically cheaper insurance/medical plans. (Totally bizarre concepts that I found difficult to comprehend when moving from solo to ALJ postion). I report to an office where former fellow counsel now treat and address me with newfound respect (And I to them) and associate and work beside fellow ALJs and staff who are very professional and very enjoyable. Instead of constantly wondering (nonstop) as I used to do where the next dollar of income and/or client will come from, I spend my work time discussing, reading, analyzing and hearing new cases, rules, regs, and issues, again with the newfound concept of being able to turn off the light and walk away from same at the end of the day with the realization that unless I do something copletely abhorrent to nature and utterly stupid, the next day is secured financially and professionaly until I say so. In other words, compared to life as a solo practitioner, being an ALJ is a refreshing breeze that lasts as long as I desire.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Dec 31, 2014 8:08:21 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, it is nearing my 3d anniversary as an ALJ and I am sorry to write that I am really disillusioned. I am looking for another job so that one of you may take my place. It is no wonder so many are retiring. Like you, I waited, agonized, and was mortified, after not being selected in 2008. By fluke, I was called in 2012. By then, I had given up. Realize that your Higher Power works in mysterious ways. For those not selected in this round, do not despair, but realize, it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the dream job you imagine.. I need to tell you, after 3 yrs. w/ this agency as an ALJ (and I was an insider), I am horribly disillusioned. I feel I just can't do it anymore under Bice and EBP. This system is broken..it is just not working. I applaud the Offices who have rejected EBP, but these are a minority. SSA demands we comply w/ EBP. SSA and ODAR are not on the same wavelength. If you care about the claimants and care about handling the cases with the highest degree of professional responsibility, you may come to realize that it is not going to happen at ODAR. You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses. Good luck to all. If this job is to the point you are "horribly disillusioned" it sure sounds like you are making a good choice to leave, especially if it makes you miserable. If you are miserable, your colleagues will suffer with you, and it will eventually spill over to family. That's never good. Good luck to you!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 9:08:46 GMT -5
To answer a question previous asked in this thread, 2 HOCALJs were recently selected for the 2014 SES Candidate Development Program. I have been told that these were the first ALJs selected to this program, but I don't have any information to verify that.
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Post by hopefalj on Dec 31, 2014 9:51:34 GMT -5
"You will likely be handling these cases on your own, bogged down with burdensome clerical responsibilities, typing your own instructions, and harassed by a management that is insensitive to your plight and who will be constantly pressuring you to hear more cases, while monitoring your overdue statuses." Interesting perspective and to each their own path. For over two decades as a solo practitioner, I was 100% responsible for finding, handling, typing, processing all cases on my own, being continually bothered (sometimes harrassed by clients) who were totally insensitive to any other cases than their own, constantly pressured by federal courts to meet schedules under threat of sanctions and facing billing demands 24/7/365 with absolutely no holidays, vacation or time off. In comparison as an ALJ, this past week has been the 1st time in 20 years I have had an actual real vacation (and even more unbelievable.. being paid while off work!) with no worries about clients, calls, emails, deadlines, or most importantly office bills. When working as an ALJ, I am provided an office, furniture, supplies, phone, computer, software and clerical staff all at no cost to me. (Totally a foreign concept for a solo practitioner who who must pay out of pocket for every tiny expense). I am provided numerous paid holidays, credit hours, sick leave hours, religious comp time, and can telework if desired all the while with understanding that work stays at work and does not come home, and with a guaranteed check coming every two weeks, and then even more so with additional govt contributions to a retirement fund as well as drastically cheaper insurance/medical plans. (Totally bizarre concepts that I found difficult to comprehend when moving from solo to ALJ postion). I report to an office where former fellow counsel now treat and address me with newfound respect (And I to them) and associate and work beside fellow ALJs and staff who are very professional and very enjoyable. Instead of constantly wondering (nonstop) as I used to do where the next dollar of income and/or client will come from, I spend my work time discussing, reading, analyzing and hearing new cases, rules, regs, and issues, again with the newfound concept of being able to turn off the light and walk away from same at the end of the day with the realization that unless I do something copletely abhorrent to nature and utterly stupid, the next day is secured financially and professionaly until I say so. In other words, compared to life as a solo practitioner, being an ALJ is a refreshing breeze that lasts as long as I desire. I think one's "reality" of the position is based on an individual's experience prior to obtaining the job. If your practice history includes grinding it out as a solo or being a cog in a big firm machine with 2000- or 2400-billable requirements, the job is certainly going to seem like a breath of fresh air. I am happy for karaj that she is getting out after recognizing the job isn't all it's cracked up to be. An ALJ always has the option of essentially tanking the job and forcing management to jump through the administrative hurdles for removal, or they can simply half-heartedly do the job and float through existence. I sincerely applaud her professionalism. I hope you are able to find something that gives you some fulfillment professionally. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you may be nearing 30 years in, so maybe you'll have greater flexibility with other options, such as legal aid or another public service provider?
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