Active vs inactive?

[chris]

This issue was mentioned briefly in another thread but I thought a separate discussion might be interesting.

Should ALJs be required to maintain active status with a state Bar? If so, why? If not, why not? I don't have an opinion myself.

Thanks,

Chris

[deadwood]

chris said:

Should ALJs be required to maintain active status with a state Bar? If so, why? If not, why not? I don't have an opinion myself.

Yes, because an ALJ is still an attorney, and most, if not all, attorneys are required to maintain active status with a state Bar.

I'm curious about the CLE requirements for an ALJ. Some state Bars allow attorneys who live out of state and do not practice in the Bar state to be exempt from the CLE requirements.

[carjack]

As an attorney who is licensed in two states but practices about 99% in only one, I cannot imagine why anyone who had gone through the brain-damaging procedure to get licensed anywhere would ever voluntarily give it up. It's way too hard to get in the first place. My two states have different CLE requirements, one requires a certain number every year and the other is every three years, but the same classes can be used for both. It's how I take vacations. Check the local bar if you want to go skiing in Colorado or gambling in Las Vegas or swimming in Florida and arrange to attend a CLE while you're there. Inns of Court is another way to get lots of CLE's. Being active in the local bar is also a good way to meet other attorneys especially when you're in a position that wouldn't normally lend itself to mingling - like being a judge. The law professors and govt attorneys are always sought out at bar functions because they have insight and aren't the usual courthouse crowd. I cannot imagine any judge not maintaining his or her license. Practicing law may be techinically limited to signing pleadings or advising clients but if a law degree is necessary to get the job, it should be necessary to keep the job. It's expensive, but it's the cost of doing business and the expenses are tax deductible.

(This message in no way constitutes or should be seen as constituting the giving of legal advice and before relying in any way on it, you should consult an attorney.)

[kingfisher]

Dittos carjack. I worked too hard to get it to ever let it lapse. Additionally, it is a job requirement that ALJs maintain an active license, so I have complied. To do otherwise makes no sense to me. Thanks for your input. -K.

[privateatty]

Query:

Would an ALJ have to use his or her own vacation time to pursue a CLE course out of state? I have a bar membership in one state with no CLE requirement and another with the requirement.

[morgullord]

When I was on active duty I had to maintain active status with at least one state bar in order to keep the Judge Advocate General happy. It did not matter that I happened to be spending most of my time in Sudan, Somalia, and other equally fun places. I was expected to do what was required to have active bar status. The same holds true today for JAGs in Afghanistan or Iraq. I admit I have difficulty seeing active bar membership as a hardship for judges.

[aljsouth]

OPM has opined that ALJ's must have active status or judicial status in states with that category. As all know there is a lawsuit over this. In the meantime definitely keep active status, unless your bar has a judicial status that meets OPM's requirements.

All judges in my office are one or the other. I am both (licensed in 2 states). If you are selected check your bar and see about judicial status or active status. In many states we are exempt from CLE.

[Pixie]

privateatty said:

Query:

Would an ALJ have to use his or her own vacation time to pursue a CLE course out of state? I have a bar membership in one state with no CLE requirement and another with the requirement.

The agency will allow up to, I believe, 16 hours a year to pursue CLE. There is also an allowance for a reasonable amount of travel time, if needed. Pix.

[chris]

kingfisher said:

Dittos carjack. I worked too hard to get it to ever let it lapse. Additionally, it is a job requirement that ALJs maintain an active license, so I have complied. To do otherwise makes no sense to me. Thanks for your input. -K.

I'm not talking about lapsing. I'm talking about going inactive. In most states you can go inactive and yet you are still a member of the bar. When you lapse, your bar membership is terminated in most states. The major benefit of going inactive in most states is twofold:

1. Bar dues are reduced
2. MCLE requirements are eliminated.

Yet you are still a bar member who can go active with minimal notice.

Of course as others have noted, some states also allow a judicial status, although some states only allow judicial status if you are working within their borders as a judge.

Does ODAR allow time off for MCLE which is required in many states to keep your active status? Or do you have to use vacation time to do MCLE?

[counselor95]

I believe the problem arose because some ALJs were told they did not have to keep active status, and then allowed their licenses to lapse. Some may have to re-take a bar exam to re-qualify for active status. I feel for them, now that they are being told the opposite!

I maintain active status in one of the three states in which I am licensed, and inactive status in the other two. Each of the three states has different CLE requirements and may not allow full credit for CLE taken in another state. Bar dues alone total $1,000 or more for active status. To regain active status, I would have to take additional CLE, not as onerous as taking ongoing CLEs. Just keeping up with the varying requirements takes time!

I think active status in one jurisdiction should be required, as we must be attorneys to qualify for the ALJ position.

[Pixie]

Chris wrote: "Does ODAR allow time off for MCLE which is required in many states to keep your active status? Or do you have to use vacation time to do MCLE?"

Chris: See my post directly above, and posted two minutes before your post--while you were composing. Pix.

[chris]

Thanks Pixie

[hooligan]

The Agency allows up to one week of administrative leave for continuing education. The AALJ annual conference qualifies for this and usually amounts to about 24 hours of CLE. This is a much better option than most CLE course because it is tailored to our needs and interests. The conference is Tues/Wed/Thurs and Monday and Friday are allowed travel time for anyone with significant commute times.

The Agency has traditionally reimbursed participants for registration fees (approx $350). The individual is responsible for airfare, hotel and incidental expenses. The next conference is planned for Portland, OR in August.

As a footnote, the Agency has issued warnings that they are considering pulling their support for the conference this year and in the future, but nothing official has come down yet.

[privateatty]

Thanks Pixie, Chris and Hooligan.

Inactive meets the requirement under the SSA guidelines, correct? However, this inactive vs. active issue seems to be a deeply personal issue. The license appears to be how many of us define ourselves...interesting in light of our current quest.

[kingfisher]

hooligan said:

The Agency allows up to one week of administrative leave for continuing education.

Hooligan, I didn't know about that as no one in my office every mentioned it. Thank you!


The Agency has traditionally reimbursed participants for registration fees (approx $350). , , , As a footnote, the Agency has issued warnings that they are considering pulling their support for the conference this year and in the future, but nothing official has come down yet.

I have recently read about an Investigation being launched into expenditures for the last AALJ Conference. I was glad that I had not been able to attend it, after all. Who wants to be investigated. Have you heard anything along these lines? If so, perhaps time for a new thread.

[chris]

privateatty said:

Thanks Pixie, Chris and Hooligan.

Inactive meets the requirement under the SSA guidelines, correct? However, this inactive vs. active issue seems to be a deeply personal issue. The license appears to be how many of us define ourselves...interesting in light of our current quest.

Apparently inactive does not meet the requirements. See the above post by aljsouth:

"OPM has opined that ALJ's must have active status or judicial status in states with that category. As all know there is a lawsuit over this. In the meantime definitely keep active status, unless your bar has a judicial status that meets OPM's requirements. "

It is interesting how some people have a strong emotional reaction to this issue, but both inactive and active bar members have a license. And both active and inactive members worked long and hard to become members of the bar. I'm guessing that those who are members of only one bar may be more emotional about being active, because if you're a member of more than a couple, you're probably inactive in some and active in some, so being inactive is not such a big deal.

[judicature]

OK, I have to know, what state's bar dues are $1,000 per year?

I pay $275 in one jurisdiction and $85 in another (judicial status)

[ruonthelist]

pixie said:

privateatty said:

Query:

Would an ALJ have to use his or her own vacation time to pursue a CLE course out of state? I have a bar membership in one state with no CLE requirement and another with the requirement.

The agency will allow up to, I believe, 16 hours a year to pursue CLE. There is also an allowance for a reasonable amount of travel time, if needed. Pix.

Pix: When I came in I was told that we could have duty time for CLE, but only if it was on a work related subject. When I have gone to the AALJ conference I have used duty time, but in years that I did not go to the conference I have gone to state bar sponsored CLE courses to keep up my required hours.

In six years my state bar has only offered a single one-day course on disability law. For all of the other courses I have attended I have used credit hours. I don't mind--it's easy enough to earn the credit hours, and the break from office routine to sample a different subject is mentally stimulating--but that is the accomodation that I was given to understand was required in order to maintain the CLE hours that my state requires.

[counselor95]

judicature said:

OK, I have to know, what state's bar dues are $1,000 per year?

I pay $275 in one jurisdiction and $85 in another (judicial status)

Judicature, for awhile I was paying bar dues to three states for active status, regular attorney: about $240, about $250, and almost $440 for the third (now that I add it up, it's more accurately "over $900" than "almost $1,000", but it sure seemed like it when I had to pay out of my pocket! Now I am paying about $240 active status, zero for inactive status, and about $220 for inactive status.

[barkley]

ruonthelist said:

pixie said:

Pix: When I came in I was told that we could have duty time for CLE, but only if it was on a work related subject. When I have gone to the AALJ conference I have used duty time, but in years that I did not go to the conference I have gone to state bar sponsored CLE courses to keep up my required hours.

.

It may be different for judges, but the attorneys in my office get 16 hours of administrative leave in order to attend CLE. It does not have to be disabilty related (my state has never hosted a disability related CLE, at least since I have been licensed). The Agency requires me to have an active license as a conditon of employment, so it makes sense that I get the leave I need to comply.