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Post by funkyodar on Aug 26, 2013 17:31:54 GMT -5
Good point faq. whichis why I advocate doing away with hiring for specific cities. Do away with all but hardship transfers. If you have 50 openings interview the top scoring 150 people without regard to gals or certs. Once you pick your top 50, send them a form that asks for their favorite destination and any alternate they would take from the list of openings. Also ask if they are not able to get the fav or an alternate choice if they would rather be randomly assigned or decline the position.
Anyone that is the only one to pick Racoon City gets it. 2 or more pickit the higher score gets it and the other may get the alternate they chose. If your score and preference keep you out, you either take a random assigment (maybe with some set rules on trying to keep you as close to your current locale as possible) or you are withdrawn from consideration. Then take those slots left open by witdrawals and go back and get the next highest scorers (3 times the # of remaining openings) and repeat the process.
This would cut down on relo and transfers and the expenses of both drastically.
With the unions, opm, ssa and the pertinent regs I know it will never happen. Butit is fun to fantasize about how things would run in Funkistan.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 26, 2013 17:37:30 GMT -5
I agree with MPD, patiently. But, I would guess the interview may be the culprit. If you were higher scored, you were objectively the best candidate. so you losing out meansit had to be for a subjective reason. Could be theinterview. Maybe the other candidate had a higher GOBN (good ole boy network) quotient ie insider or friend of a friend of the powers that be. Maybe one of your references tanked you or just wasn't as impressive as one for the competition. Sadly, no matter how objective opm and ssa try to make this process appear, once you are on a cert it's all subjective. What you know gets you an interview, who you know gets you a job. in many cases anyway. The only objective factor I can think of to justify not hiring the higher scored candidate would be the vet priority. even then, with your higher score, they could have sought a dispensation to not use the vet mandate if they had wanted to based on the subjective criteria. I didn't think it went that badly, but oh well. Maybe a lesson for someone else to learn. Try not being nervous when you've waited years for that one hour...guess it's all part of the process. Don't beat yourself up P. You had the higher score and probably did great on the interview. It's just that the other guy may have had the bestus interview in history or had some inside track not open to you.You did your best, but you can't control the competition and the world ain't fair. Keep your head high
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Post by 71stretch on Aug 26, 2013 17:47:21 GMT -5
One of many "general rules" here (you could probably do a search for the phrase) is that "scores don't matter" once you are on a cert. We don't know what city they start with each time in deciding on an applicant, and as they work through the process, with the different GALs, the top three for any given city has to be adjusted. There's shuffling that goes on for other reasons, as if they really want someone, they can find a way to get them. That doesn't mean that they won't want you next time around, on a new register, and new certs, far, far away.
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Post by bartleby on Aug 26, 2013 18:47:59 GMT -5
Patiently, You know I have always loved the kitty. The panel interview was one of the easiest I have ever been through. I had no way to prepare and based everything on my own personal experience and it was good. I really didn't care if I got the position or not, I think you hit on the problem. The hardest interview I ever had was 40 years ago after I got out of the Army and was trying to get in the Border Patrol. I was not the wisest man in the world at that time. I wanted/needed that job and I made a complete arse out of my self. I showed no common sense as I was trying to out-guess what they wanted for common sense answers. They had me following illegals across the Rio Grande into Texas, on buses to San Antonio, on trains to Chicago and attempting to buy airline tickets to Denver. I never heard back from that and I had my 5 point Veterans Points. I applied for mail carrying positions and I applied for air traffic controller jobs. I became one step closer to becoming the wisest man in the world when I turned down the air traffic controller job 4 months prior to Reagan firing all of the air traffic controllers. Anyhow, it all worked out for the best for me and I am sure you will get another chance at it. With God's sense of humor, I was offered a job that I didn't care if I got and I was offered a lifetime job when I was getting ready to retire. Years ago, when I was 50 and whining to God about my plight, he asked me if I would be happy doing what I was doing when I was 70. I said yes. He said shut up and drive on. I said Thank you, God. My life began to improve and it has always improving since. Keep the faith, don't doubt yourself. God may have something, someplace, or someone better planned for you, that you can't even imagine. Things are changing in the Government and throughout the Nation. This job may cease to exist. The hand-out Federal welfare program ponzi scheme can not go on forever. We all know that, it's just a matter of time. Until then changes will occur. Don't beat yourself up, get a rescue kitty or two and learn unconditional love. Write that great American novel you have in you. Or the cook book you have been wanting to write. The world is yours for a fresh start. This worry is over for now. Good Night and Sweet Dreams my little over-achievers.
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Post by lurker/dibs on Aug 26, 2013 19:02:33 GMT -5
No doubt this will be a fine addition to our office. perhaps even one that wont try and trnsfer out ASAP. Even if the new judge does, gret for them. Just seems like the whole system is silly sometimes. How hard would it be to put in a new rule that says "if we are hiring 20 judges all across the country, we find the 20 then assign them to the closest office to where they currently are and they agree to go"?This is what I have been preaching for years! Again, I want to call "dibs"!!
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Post by trekker on Aug 26, 2013 20:11:04 GMT -5
Lurker if you don't stop calling dibs all the time, I am going to have to sic my minions on you. But I think of this as yet another adventure in my life and I have been lucky that most worked out for the better. Only one mistake and I knew it was going to be a mistake. This time around I can only hope to achieve a goal that I have had for a very long time. That is until I left the testing room feeling zinged. Made me think I was back in statistics or organic chemistry class again (no statistics is not on the WD or LBMT and neither is organic chemistry -- it was just the best analogy I could make up) using a primitive calculator.
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Post by lurker/dibs on Aug 26, 2013 21:00:15 GMT -5
trekker, eventually I will call dibs enough that it will stick!! At least I'm hoping so, anyway!
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Post by zepplin on Aug 26, 2013 22:38:15 GMT -5
Patiently, You know I have always loved the kitty. The panel interview was one of the easiest I have ever been through. I had no way to prepare and based everything on my own personal experience and it was good. I really didn't care if I got the position or not, I think you hit on the problem. The hardest interview I ever had was 40 years ago after I got out of the Army and was trying to get in the Border Patrol. I was not the wisest man in the world at that time. I wanted/needed that job and I made a complete arse out of my self. I showed no common sense as I was trying to out-guess what they wanted for common sense answers. They had me following illegals across the Rio Grande into Texas, on buses to San Antonio, on trains to Chicago and attempting to buy airline tickets to Denver. I never heard back from that and I had my 5 point Veterans Points. I applied for mail carrying positions and I applied for air traffic controller jobs. I became one step closer to becoming the wisest man in the world when I turned down the air traffic controller job 4 months prior to Reagan firing all of the air traffic controllers. Anyhow, it all worked out for the best for me and I am sure you will get another chance at it. With God's sense of humor, I was offered a job that I didn't care if I got and I was offered a lifetime job when I was getting ready to retire. Years ago, when I was 50 and whining to God about my plight, he asked me if I would be happy doing what I was doing when I was 70. I said yes. He said shut up and drive on. I said Thank you, God. My life began to improve and it has always improving since. Keep the faith, don't doubt yourself. God may have something, someplace, or someone better planned for you, that you can't even imagine. Things are changing in the Government and throughout the Nation. This job may cease to exist. The hand-out Federal welfare program ponzi scheme can not go on forever. We all know that, it's just a matter of time. Until then changes will occur. Don't beat yourself up, get a rescue kitty or two and learn unconditional love. Write that great American novel you have in you. Or the cook book you have been wanting to write. The world is yours for a fresh start. This worry is over for now. Good Night and Sweet Dreams my little over-achievers. Thank you Bartleby. I needed that.
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cmet8
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Post by cmet8 on Aug 27, 2013 0:03:42 GMT -5
Patiently, You know I have always loved the kitty. The panel interview was one of the easiest I have ever been through. I had no way to prepare and based everything on my own personal experience and it was good. I really didn't care if I got the position or not, I think you hit on the problem. The hardest interview I ever had was 40 years ago after I got out of the Army and was trying to get in the Border Patrol. I was not the wisest man in the world at that time. I wanted/needed that job and I made a complete arse out of my self. I showed no common sense as I was trying to out-guess what they wanted for common sense answers. They had me following illegals across the Rio Grande into Texas, on buses to San Antonio, on trains to Chicago and attempting to buy airline tickets to Denver. I never heard back from that and I had my 5 point Veterans Points. I applied for mail carrying positions and I applied for air traffic controller jobs. I became one step closer to becoming the wisest man in the world when I turned down the air traffic controller job 4 months prior to Reagan firing all of the air traffic controllers. Anyhow, it all worked out for the best for me and I am sure you will get another chance at it. With God's sense of humor, I was offered a job that I didn't care if I got and I was offered a lifetime job when I was getting ready to retire. Years ago, when I was 50 and whining to God about my plight, he asked me if I would be happy doing what I was doing when I was 70. I said yes. He said shut up and drive on. I said Thank you, God. My life began to improve and it has always improving since. Keep the faith, don't doubt yourself. God may have something, someplace, or someone better planned for you, that you can't even imagine. Things are changing in the Government and throughout the Nation. This job may cease to exist. The hand-out Federal welfare program ponzi scheme can not go on forever. We all know that, it's just a matter of time. Until then changes will occur. Don't beat yourself up, get a rescue kitty or two and learn unconditional love. Write that great American novel you have in you. Or the cook book you have been wanting to write. The world is yours for a fresh start. This worry is over for now. Good Night and Sweet Dreams my little over-achievers. You nailed it, Bartley. Well said!
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Post by privateatty on Aug 27, 2013 4:30:15 GMT -5
Patiently, You know I have always loved the kitty. The panel interview was one of the easiest I have ever been through. I had no way to prepare and based everything on my own personal experience and it was good. I really didn't care if I got the position or not, I think you hit on the problem. The hardest interview I ever had was 40 years ago after I got out of the Army and was trying to get in the Border Patrol. I was not the wisest man in the world at that time. I wanted/needed that job and I made a complete arse out of my self. I showed no common sense as I was trying to out-guess what they wanted for common sense answers. They had me following illegals across the Rio Grande into Texas, on buses to San Antonio, on trains to Chicago and attempting to buy airline tickets to Denver. I never heard back from that and I had my 5 point Veterans Points. I applied for mail carrying positions and I applied for air traffic controller jobs. I became one step closer to becoming the wisest man in the world when I turned down the air traffic controller job 4 months prior to Reagan firing all of the air traffic controllers. Anyhow, it all worked out for the best for me and I am sure you will get another chance at it. With God's sense of humor, I was offered a job that I didn't care if I got and I was offered a lifetime job when I was getting ready to retire. Years ago, when I was 50 and whining to God about my plight, he asked me if I would be happy doing what I was doing when I was 70. I said yes. He said shut up and drive on. I said Thank you, God. My life began to improve and it has always improving since. Keep the faith, don't doubt yourself. God may have something, someplace, or someone better planned for you, that you can't even imagine. Things are changing in the Government and throughout the Nation. This job may cease to exist. The hand-out Federal welfare program ponzi scheme can not go on forever. We all know that, it's just a matter of time. Until then changes will occur. Don't beat yourself up, get a rescue kitty or two and learn unconditional love. Write that great American novel you have in you. Or the cook book you have been wanting to write. The world is yours for a fresh start. This worry is over for now. Good Night and Sweet Dreams my little over-achievers. Thank you bartleby. You have underscored an important point: part of accepting this job and that is becoming an orphan. This is why (pardon me) I sometimes scoff at those who say, "Yes, I want the job, but I have a limited GAL." And, pardon me, funkyodar, but your desire to see the Puzzle Palace accomodate one's geographic roots gets a smile. Oh sure, there are some on this Board where the stars lined up and they got not what they needed but what they wanted. They are truly blessed and one has to respect that kind gift from on HIgh. And there are others who were able to transfer and go home within a year or two or even in much less time. As this Board has shown, this process of leaving home and hearth can have some unintended consequences, both positive and negative. For me, coming from the private sector, it was like when I went into the Army. For those who are already a Fed, then you know, its about government service. That so many of you get help from the government in moving costs and (egad) you don't even have to face the prospect of selling your home, well, taking that for granted seems to me like a crime. I have a friend or two who took a big financial bath for the privilege of calling themselves a federal ALJ. They wanted this job, badly. Some waited for years on the old Register hoping for a call that came when they least expected it. Some others took the whole OPM test twice as ten point vets and got lower scores-(and higher scores). Others glided through the whole process as if they were Bonnie Prince Charles. Again, more power to them. My point is that there is just too many applicants now. If you don't have a big wide open GAL, you have tied one hand behind your back. When the SSA Cert comes out you will all get another chance to sit with your spouse and family and whittle down your choices. Fargo, Anchorage, Hattiesburg and Des Moines may get struck. In that cases there will be one right behind you who will go.
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 27, 2013 5:08:25 GMT -5
Patiently, You know I have always loved the kitty. The panel interview was one of the easiest I have ever been through. I had no way to prepare and based everything on my own personal experience and it was good. I really didn't care if I got the position or not, I think you hit on the problem. The hardest interview I ever had was 40 years ago after I got out of the Army and was trying to get in the Border Patrol. I was not the wisest man in the world at that time. I wanted/needed that job and I made a complete arse out of my self. I showed no common sense as I was trying to out-guess what they wanted for common sense answers. They had me following illegals across the Rio Grande into Texas, on buses to San Antonio, on trains to Chicago and attempting to buy airline tickets to Denver. I never heard back from that and I had my 5 point Veterans Points. I applied for mail carrying positions and I applied for air traffic controller jobs. I became one step closer to becoming the wisest man in the world when I turned down the air traffic controller job 4 months prior to Reagan firing all of the air traffic controllers. Anyhow, it all worked out for the best for me and I am sure you will get another chance at it. With God's sense of humor, I was offered a job that I didn't care if I got and I was offered a lifetime job when I was getting ready to retire. Years ago, when I was 50 and whining to God about my plight, he asked me if I would be happy doing what I was doing when I was 70. I said yes. He said shut up and drive on. I said Thank you, God. My life began to improve and it has always improving since. Keep the faith, don't doubt yourself. God may have something, someplace, or someone better planned for you, that you can't even imagine. Things are changing in the Government and throughout the Nation. This job may cease to exist. The hand-out Federal welfare program ponzi scheme can not go on forever. We all know that, it's just a matter of time. Until then changes will occur. Don't beat yourself up, get a rescue kitty or two and learn unconditional love. Write that great American novel you have in you. Or the cook book you have been wanting to write. The world is yours for a fresh start. This worry is over for now. Good Night and Sweet Dreams my little over-achievers. Thank you bartleby. You have underscored an important point: part of accepting this job and that is becoming an orphan. This is why (pardon me) I sometimes scoff at those who say, "Yes, I want the job, but I have a limited GAL." And, pardon me, funkyodar, but your desire to see the Puzzle Palace accomodate one's geographic roots gets a smile. Oh sure, there are some on this Board where the stars lined up and they got not what they needed but what they wanted. They are truly blessed and one has to respect that kind gift from on HIgh. And there are others who were able to transfer and go home within a year or two or even in much less time. As this Board has shown, this process of leaving home and hearth can have some unintended consequences, both positive and negative. For me, coming from the private sector, it was like when I went into the Army. For those who are already a Fed, then you know, its about government service. That so many of you get help from the government in moving costs and (egad) you don't even have to face the prospect of selling your home, well, taking that for granted seems to me like a crime. I have a friend or two who took a big financial bath for the privilege of calling themselves a federal ALJ. They wanted this job, badly. Some waited for years on the old Register hoping for a call that came when they least expected it. Some others took the whole OPM test twice as ten point vets and got lower scores-(and higher scores). Others glided through the whole process as if they were Bonnie Prince Charles. Again, more power to them. My point is that there is just too many applicants now. If you don't have a big wide open GAL, you have tied one hand behind your back. When the SSA Cert comes out you will all get another chance to sit with your spouse and family and whittle down your choices. Fargo, Anchorage, Hattiesburg and Des Moines may get struck. In that cases there will be one right behind you who will go. I think you nailed it perfectly privateatty. So, eloquently stated and to the point. Most people aren't willing to sacrifice their comfort to achieve their goal. Thank you for laying it out for all to see, especially after bartleby's well stated post.
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Post by minny on Aug 27, 2013 7:25:42 GMT -5
I'm with you, sbb! I am already in the federal service but even when I was in private practice I still felt a great deal of value in what I was doing. I have a very limited GAL because that is what my family needs at this time. If I do not get the ALJ job because of that choice then so be it.
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 27, 2013 7:49:47 GMT -5
I'm with you, sbb! I am already in the federal service but even when I was in private practice I still felt a great deal of value in what I was doing. I have a very limited GAL because that is what my family needs at this time. If I do not get the ALJ job because of that choice then so be it. Minny and sbb those are choices you made with your eyes wide open. If you don't get an ALJ position, it will be because you limited your GAL for comfort reasons. However, you decided it was what was best for you at the time. If your goal is truly to acquire an ALJ position, than sometimes comfort must be sacrificed. Otherwise, other things have more importance to you (family) and I understand and respect those positions. It is a choice you made and will live with.
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Post by sealaw90 on Aug 27, 2013 11:17:11 GMT -5
sbb, that was a GREAT excuse to post that link. It made my day!
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 27, 2013 11:22:54 GMT -5
And, pardon me, funkyodar, but your desire to see the Puzzle Palace accomodate one's geographic roots gets a smile. Consider your self pardoned, Private.
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Post by ALJ Someday Maybe on Aug 27, 2013 20:28:06 GMT -5
Bartleby, patiently (kitties), and all . . . thanks for the encouraging words. I wish you all the best where ever you find yourselves. You are all pretty cooool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2013 8:15:47 GMT -5
I'm with you, sbb! I am already in the federal service but even when I was in private practice I still felt a great deal of value in what I was doing. I have a very limited GAL because that is what my family needs at this time. If I do not get the ALJ job because of that choice then so be it. Between the frank manner in which privateatty puts it and the Bartleby's more soothing tone, I get it, I get it!!! If you are willing to live in a location that many find "less than desirable," and get decent scores, you have a good shot at making the grade. Corrrect me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the people who made the current register, got hired. The ones who did not make it (including myself), for the most part, didn't make it because of low scores or a limited GAL. I will widen my GAL next go round but not by much. I'm trying not to be hard-headed and my wife would fully support any choice I make. Balancing the trade-off is just one of those tough life decisions one has to make. I am willing to leave my family, temporarily, but I am not willing to risk moving to a place where I know I could not live indefinitely. I hope ODAR's needs and the outer limits of my comfort zone coalesce somewhere along the way, but I now fully appreciate how unlikely that is, for me at least. Sometimes you just have to put on your big boy pants and deal with the consequences.
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Post by privateatty on Aug 28, 2013 16:24:36 GMT -5
I'm with you, sbb! I am already in the federal service but even when I was in private practice I still felt a great deal of value in what I was doing. I have a very limited GAL because that is what my family needs at this time. If I do not get the ALJ job because of that choice then so be it. Between the frank manner in which privateatty puts it and the Bartleby's more soothing tone, I get it, I get it!!! If you are willing to live in a location that many find "less than desirable," and get decent scores, you have a good shot at making the grade. Corrrect me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the people who made the current register, got hired. The ones who did not make it (including myself), for the most part, didn't make it because of low scores or a limited GAL. I will widen my GAL next go round but not by much. I'm trying not to be hard-headed and my wife would fully support any choice I make. Balancing the trade-off is just one of those tough life decisions one has to make. I am willing to leave my family, temporarily, but I am not willing to risk moving to a place where I know I could not live indefinitely. I hope ODAR's needs and the outer limits of my comfort zone coalesce somewhere along the way, but I now fully appreciate how unlikely that is, for me at least. Sometimes you just have to put on your big boy pants and deal with the consequences. No and no. There are hundreds on the current Register who will expire (is whither better?) unless they are in the current exam process. They have my condolences, truly,--it is not a good feeling for such high achievers. So many have left this Board, unable to see the likes of y'all (and who can blame them)? And low scores or a limited GAL didn't necessarily sink them. Many were thrice struck due to their high score, a stab in the back consisting of a subjective negative reference or review from a HOD or Judge or even a legal colleague. High scorerers can be pesky to Puzzle Palace as they get in the way of favorite sons and daughters. When I first applied pre-2007 I had to list opposing counsel whom they could call. Some thought it sport akin to pin the tail on the donkey. They called me laughing about what a nerd I was to apply. I then had to go to Court against them. Fun stuff. Thank goodness they changed all that in 2007. Another sinkhole is an off remark that a Judge didn't like in the SSA Interview. If you are a student of this Board its all here in black and white. Don't look for an easy answer as to why you didn't get the call. A very few are pretty sure you will get the call. For the rest, its one big crap shoot.
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Post by redryder on Aug 29, 2013 9:59:14 GMT -5
I concur with PA. From an insider's point of view, one factor that many writers overlook is that decision writer productivity report. A candidate can tell the interviewers that 500-700 dispositions is doable. But the productivity report may not be so supportive of that conclusion. Too many writers and managers think of that report as a grade. But here's the poop: 100% does not equal A+. 100% means the writer is giving ODAR 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Nothing more and nothing less. It is not a grade like school. So if a writer is consistently below 100, why should ODAR expect them to be able to carry the ALJ workload? For the SSA there is no productivity report, but again ODAR has each writers' production reports. Yes the quality of the work is important, let's not debate that. But so is productivity.
And how does that writer get along with the rest of the folks in the office? Not just other AAs, SAAs and the judges. But the techs and the managers? Does that person just gripe when faced with a problem? Or try to be a creative problem-solver? Are you agressive and proactive? Or passive and reactive? How do you treat the paralegals and techs? Remeber if appointed, you have to depend on these same folks you may hold in distain today. One lesson I learned in my first week in private practice, was treat the support staff with respect or your work is always on the bottom of the to-do list.
If there is any hint from the management that an insider is not productive or a team player, forget an appointment. ODAR has had enough problems with prima donna judges.
Everyone who gets a grade from OPM may be a candidate for the job. But that is not the end all. Sometimes it helps if you take some time and reflect what else is required to do the job. Evaluate where you are doing well and what you can do better.
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 29, 2013 12:06:21 GMT -5
I attempted to access my old NOR from the March 2010 testing and it is no longer in Application Manager. Does anyone else still have access to their information from the old ALJ announcement? I was just curious to see how long it took between the test and the NOR being sent out and unfortunately can not put my hands on the hard copy of the e-mail. The ALJ Exam Timeline Thread indicates it usually takes 3-5 months between invitations for the WD/SI and receiving a NOR. I'm guessing you got your NOR on May 12, 2010.
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