Is there to be a new hire next year?

[tater]

I am hearing another 125 to be hired next year? Current register or a new one?

[odarite]

Any further hires in the foreseeable future will be from this register. Terminating the old register was a one time event which will not be repeated. I know people who were on the old register for a decade or more. The current register will, however, be reopened so new folks can be added. That will need to happen because with more than 150 hired from 600, (SSA, DOL, OMHA) that depletes the register by more than 25%. I have no line in to OPM, but I would not be surprised to see the register open again at any time. They had said they would work the appeals first, but who is to say?

[aljsouth]

tater said:

I am hearing another 125 to be hired next year? Current register or a new one?

Yes more are needed, but more staff is vital to the success of additional judges. Of course, if 90 new staff were added 70 would end up being allocated to regional staff for the so important management function of barraging HO staff with emails demanding information that can be found in the monthly report.

Seriously, politics drives additional staff and judges are high visibility positions that makes SSA look like they are addressing the backlog. More staff is needed as well as judges. A decade of neglect by SSA and congress cannot be addressed in one to two budget years. There is also a presidential election to get through. I doubt SSA has a comprehensive plan beyond the judge hire this year.

[testtaker]

Thought this was interesting from the wild wild west posts:

ML said:

I posted this on the ob. I hope it might generate some discussion here.

Everyone is projecting scenarios based on assumptions regarding some of the numbers. This is my projection. I’m confident the original register was at or just over 600. A handful of people were added by OPM based on a few technical appeals granted (resume not propagated from USA JOBS the only successful issue I know about). The added people might have done little more than replace others who elected not to spend the money to travel for the WD or SI. In any case, I would guess the register ended up at about 625 based on the WD and SI slots. The current certificate is probably not 450, but is between 400 and 450 based on the information provided by SSA. They said, somewhat more than 400. They could have said 450 if it is that simple. After reading all of the various theories re practical applications of the “rule of three,” I believe there is some formula OPM uses that is more complex than 150 times three to guarantee three candidates for each of 150 jobs. On this basis, the certificate is more than 400 but less than 450.

Assuming the certificate numbers 425 for 150, a new certificate for 125 would probably require about 350 candidates. If 165 people are removed from this register by SSA, Medicare, Labor, and HUD hires, 460 candidates would be left on the register (625-165+=460). On a strict mathematical basis, this is more than enough for a new certificate of up to 150. However, there are additional likely practical considerations that go beyond these speculative numbers. SSA will have a good idea about the quality of candidates remaining after the current hire. They will have a full data set (OPM materials, SSA Interview report, and SSA references reports) on 275 candidates who were not hired from this certificate (425-150=275). Depending on how SSA (read ODAR high management) views these candidates and how they feel this information might reflect on the 175 or so candidates on the register but not on any certificate thus far, more or less pressure will be put on OPM to add to the register. This pressure could (probably will) affect the resources OPM is obligated to put into additions to the register. A new register opening with a time deadline would require the same resource expenditure as in the past year (I don’t really know, but I’ll bet it was a $1,000,000+ project—even with candidates paying their own travel). On the other hand, if SSA is not terribly unhappy with the quality of the remaining candidates on the register and sanguine that the appeals process could add another 50+ more quality candidates, there will be less pressure on OPM to open the register before October 2008 (with new candidates added in mid-2009).

It will be interesting (beyond my personal stake) to see how this all plays out. That's a big reason posts on this board and the ob will not die out after the current SSA is completed. Anyone who claims to have real knowledge about the future actions of SSA or OPM in this regard should be providing insights regarding these factors. Otherwise, they’re blowing smoke. I would be surprised if core ODAR management has a full handle on all of the variables at this point. There are contingencies that could still delay the timing of the current hires and training schedule; the contingencies affecting a future hire a exponentially more complex.

[nonamouse]

Actually, I don't think that SSA will hire a full 150 from this certificate. They did not complete the transfers of current ALJs prior to sending the list of cities for the cert. I know for certain that 2 cities received ALJs after the list was provided to candidates on this cert. I doubt that only 2 cities were involved.

It would only make sense that a supplemental certificate would be issued with the cities that now have the openings post-transfers in order to reach the 150 number. Until SSA and OPM get this group of 150 on board, I'm not going to worry about another group. They could easily fiddle with this process including scheduling multiple training classes for the rest of FY2008 and right into FY2009!

Would anyone who is more familiar with the way that certificates work like to chime in?

[carjack]

It would seem feasible that if, due to transfers, certain offices no longer needed ALJs, but the site from which the transferees came did, SSA could hire new ALJs and immediately transfer them, assuming they knew the person would accept the transfer. They hire for the announced opening in River City, which in the meantime has been filled by someone transferring in from Roadville, so now they have an opening in Rdville that wasn't on the announcement. SSA would have hired Bob or Emily ALJ for the opening which is now filled, but Bob or Emily is willing to accept an immediate transfer to Rdville, so they don't have to leave the opening. Is this feasible/kosher in a US govt setting?

[odarite]

Short answer: no. This is why there is talk of a supplemental certificate.

[workdrone]

I would take that with a huge grain of salt just based on its source. The thread there already got deleted for the subsequent troll bait posts.

There simply isn't any more money to hire more ALJs for SSA (other than to replace attritions) without additonal Congressional funding. And no one knows what FY 2009 budget is going to look like right now. So I wouldn't believe any talk of additional large scale hiring until $$$ has been appropriated by Congress.

[morgullord]

New hires and transfers are mangos and bananas you can pick right from a tree. SSA took into account the entire transfer list before it placed locations on the FEAI.

[tootsie]

I agree. Wish the Commish had stopped by to say hi to me when I interviewed (sniff)-

[zero]

"They had said they would work the appeals first, but who is to say? "
Why would OPM waste time on the appeals if they're ready to open up the list again? They've already effectively denied all of the appeals by letting agencies hire off the list without resolving the appeals. I don't see how there is any difference between letting somebody re-apply and ruling on their appeal.

[morgullord]

OPM sees the register as a living, changing entity. For instance, even when the register was closed, including now, OPM would accept applications from 10-point veterans. OPM has no difficulty with the concept of resolving appeals and placing successful candidates on the register after the the applicant jumps through all of the flaming hoops. When OPM has enough people to make it worthwhile, WDs will be scheduled, followed by SIs. OPM lives for this.

[jagghagg]

So ya'll are suggesting that what "News Flash" says happened with regard to Astrue did NOT happen?

Zero - just out of curiosity, is it your position that all the appeals should have been resolved BEFORE the WD and SI were conducted ?

[workdrone]

jagghagg said:

So ya'll are suggesting that what "News Flash" says happened with regard to Astrue did NOT happen?

Let's just say I'm somewhat cynical and I wouldn't bet on it. Could it have happend? Sure. Is it likely to have happened? No. If SSA has information about beefing up the system with more hiring, you think the comish would:

1) Issue a press release and get as much positive publicity for his struggling agency as possible or

2) Stop by some job interview and tell the few candidates that are there the inside scoop?

My guess is some trolls from the old board stopped by and is just having some fun at our expense. But hey, if the info is real, there will probably be a press release issued soon just like the current round.

[tricia]

Jagghagg, I don't know whether Zero believes that the appeals should have been resolved BEFORE the WD and SI were conducted, but I think I can certainly speak for all of us appellants whose applications were sent into a black hole because we did not put our license numbers or date of first licensure in the correct blank on the application. We filed our appeals in early July. July! Six and a half months ago!! And apparently no one has looked at them yet.
Yes, yes, yes, we feel that our appeals should have been resolved BEFORE the WD and SI were conducted.
We have been shut out of the process of hiring 150 new ALJs because of a minor, technical omission on our applications.

[lurker]

jagghagg said:

So ya'll are suggesting that what "News Flash" says happened with regard to Astrue did NOT happen?

I was skeptical because it was posted on the Wild, Wild West. People have been reporting on their interviews right and left. If one of us had in fact met Astrue during our interview - we would have said so, non-anonymously (well, at least using our regular posting name).

I'm not from SSA, but I was also wondering why Astrue would be in Falls Church. Isn't headquarters in Baltimore? Isn't that his usual work station?

[morgullord]

A couple of things:

I have met the CoSS and believe him to be a straight arrow who speaks his mind; why would he mislead someone on future hires? There is no motive for him to do that.

As to why he was in Falls Church, any good manager is going to be out of his office as much as he/she can to see first-hand what's going on. ODAR and its problems are his single biggest headache. If I were the CoSS I would be a frequent visitor, too, if for no other reason than to let my CALJ know I am backing him as he tries to deal with the backlog.

I believe News Flash to be a credible witness.

[morgullord]

For the record, the CoSS was at OCALJ when I was there for my interview on 1/8/08. I did not speak to him because he was engaged in conversation with those who accompanied him and I was in the process of completing the paperwork I was given. I also saw both Judge Cristaudo and Judge Griswold; they both seemed to be busy, so I did not inject myself into their day.

In my opionion, the backlog developed because Commissioner Astrue's predecessors were not frequent visitors to Falls Church.

The bottom line is that CoSS was there on other business and was not there just to chat with those who happened to be there for interviews.

[tootsie]

Morgullord, you make good points, but I also remain skeptical. SSA is huge and I find it a little hard to believe that the "CEO" would stop by and tell somebody who is simply interviewing for a position his previously unannounced plans-

Plus, there's the history of trolls-

[morgullord]

Granted I have not seen News Flash's bona fides and I do admit that I cannot recall seeing posts from that individual before today; however, when CoSS visited my office, we had a brief Q&A session and he did not duck any questions. From what I know of him, it would be in character for him to answer a question in the manner reported. That is why I am of the opinion that the story is likely to be true.