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Post by bartleby on May 8, 2014 11:35:24 GMT -5
Since I know everyone is in a dither and looking for distractions, how about this, the Group Supervisor interrupts a Judge in the middle of a hearing, not just once, but more than that, inquiring when the Judge would be moving a case from one status to another as the Region office wanted to know.
Do you really want to take this job??
And before my enemies jump on this, no, it wasn't me.
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Post by decadealj on May 8, 2014 11:52:50 GMT -5
bartleby- we had a group suoervisor who thought she could make the ALJ stop the hearing until he responded to the RO "order" or she would change the status on her own authority- she is gone now but what a piece of work and the RO loved her as much as she was despised in our office (except by the HOM of course who loved her because she kept the RO off his back!)
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 12:03:16 GMT -5
Bartleby what was the response of the ALJ, if you know? Did he/she respond or did he/she insist the group supervisor see him/her after the hearing? Just curious. Some ALJs get walked all over because of how they respond to such requests. Other ALJs may have indeed created the situation by sitting on a case forever without explanation or reason. Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing.
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Post by decadealj on May 8, 2014 12:08:51 GMT -5
moopigsdad- sad to say but there are RCJs who not only condone such activity but encourage it. I don't know if it still the case but in Region 3, non-attorney management dictated everything. HOCALJs resigned in protest but the RO could always find some little tryant who couldn't turn down a paid move to be an ODAR clone.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 12:25:29 GMT -5
Some things don't surprise me decadealj. In over thirty years of practice I have seen it all or almost all. It is just sad!
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Post by bartleby on May 8, 2014 12:26:34 GMT -5
MPD, "Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing." The point being that there is NO good reason for interrupting a hearing unless the building is on fire. Anything else can and should be held until after the meeting. Does the ALJ response excuse the GS actions in any circumstance? I find this to be outrageous. Just wait until some of the Big Litigators get in there and try to have the GS held overnight for contempt.. but, I digres, I often forget that we aren't real Judges and as such deserve no respect for anything.
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Post by anotherfed on May 8, 2014 12:32:42 GMT -5
MPD, "Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing." The point being that there is NO good reason for interrupting a hearing unless the building is on fire. Anything else can and should be held until after the meeting. Does the ALJ response excuse the GS actions in any circumstance? I find this to be outrageous. Just wait until some of the Big Litigators get in there and try to have the GS held overnight for contempt.. but, I digres, I often forget that we aren't real Judges and as such deserve no respect for anything. C'mon, Bartleby, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel ...
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Post by bartleby on May 8, 2014 12:41:32 GMT -5
Anotherfed,
Dos Equis, my friend...
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Post by gary on May 8, 2014 12:43:10 GMT -5
Anotherfed, Dos Equis, my friend... I can't speak for anybody else, but I am staying thirsty, my friend.
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Post by anotherfed on May 8, 2014 12:43:22 GMT -5
Anotherfed, Dos Equis, my friend... If I ever get the opportunity, I will buy the Dos Equis, and will kiss the hem of your robe to show the proper respect. P.S. -- unless I'm wearing my own robe, in which case you're buying and I will toast to your sage wisdom.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 12:45:26 GMT -5
MPD, "Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing." The point being that there is NO good reason for interrupting a hearing unless the building is on fire. Anything else can and should be held until after the meeting. Does the ALJ response excuse the GS actions in any circumstance? I find this to be outrageous. Just wait until some of the Big Litigators get in there and try to have the GS held overnight for contempt.. but, I digres, I often forget that we aren't real Judges and as such deserve no respect for anything. I don't disagree Bartleby, but some people bring on their own misery by their action or inaction.
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 12:47:27 GMT -5
MPD, "Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing." The point being that there is NO good reason for interrupting a hearing unless the building is on fire. Anything else can and should be held until after the meeting. Does the ALJ response excuse the GS actions in any circumstance? I find this to be outrageous. Just wait until some of the Big Litigators get in there and try to have the GS held overnight for contempt.. but, I digres, I often forget that we aren't real Judges and as such deserve no respect for anything. By the way, maybe the GS forgot to mention the "fire" issue when he/she interrupted in the middle of the hearing.
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Post by gary on May 8, 2014 12:55:30 GMT -5
MPD, "Just that set of facts doesn't tell us much, other than the group supervisor's action weren't respectful to the client going through the hearing or the ALJ performing the hearing." The point being that there is NO good reason for interrupting a hearing unless the building is on fire. Anything else can and should be held until after the meeting. Does the ALJ response excuse the GS actions in any circumstance? I find this to be outrageous. Just wait until some of the Big Litigators get in there and try to have the GS held overnight for contempt.. but, I digres, I often forget that we aren't real Judges and as such deserve no respect for anything. By the way, maybe the GS forgot to mention the "fire" issue when he/she interrupted in the middle of the hearing. Wasn't the whole purpose of the GS's inquiry to light a fire under the ALJ?
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Post by moopigsdad on May 8, 2014 12:56:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the laugh Gary.
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Post by pubdef on May 8, 2014 15:04:02 GMT -5
Just this week, I have had a prosecutor scream at me in a courtroom full of people because of his incorrect assumption; a client tell me to go f-myself and that he hopes I die before the next time we have court together (and he was one of the nicer clients); and a judge threaten me in the middle of a punishment argument that he was about to make me sit down if I continued the same path on my argument.
So yes, on weeks like this I think there's not much that could convince me not to take that job if that's the worst you got.
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Post by privateatty on May 8, 2014 16:43:44 GMT -5
When something like this happens (and it would never ever happen in my Agency) I first see it in its most basic forms. Power, respect (or lack thereof) and fear (or lack thereof). Obviously the supervisor had no fear nor respect and took any remaining power the Judge had. AND she/he was of the firm belief that he/she could get away with it.
I am sure there are Judges at ODAR that this happens to. Any HOCALJ who supervises one, IMHO, is not doing his/her job--BUT I am not an ODAR Judge and I can hear the dissent that will follow this from here. Fine. Lets have the discussion.
Bullies pick on those whom they can bully. I would find a way to deal with this person. While I am not Frank Underwood of "House of Cards", Frank and the way he thinks is instructive.
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Post by hamster on May 8, 2014 19:53:19 GMT -5
There are buttholes in every profession. I would never stand for someone barging in like that to one of my hearings. However, there is nobody I have ever worked with who would do something like that. In fact, I can't believe it's anything other than an urban legend. Time for the Myth Busters crew! I bet it never happened. I work now, and have worked before, with many professionals in ODAR. A few crackpots, sure--but they've been ALJs since the dawn of time. One crazy HOCALJ, but she's since moved on. Everybody else has been utterly professional and courteous to claimants. And, I might add, courteous to their coworkers. I show you respect; you show me respect. It's the Golden Rule all around.
If I were the ALJ, and it really happened, I would send an email immediately to Acting Commissioner Colvin about it. No sense screwing around.
But again, I bet it never happened. So don't sweat it, you eager beaver candidates out there. The person who "saw" it happen must've ducked out to Colorado for a quick toke at lunch time first.
Best, Hamster
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Post by ed on May 8, 2014 20:10:01 GMT -5
I am not sure Tigerlaw's first sergeant approach would be the best, since we do all have to work together. And truth be told, we do not know if the interruption was by email or in person. But I would suggest that the correct approach may have been to have the HOCALJ address the situation with the Group Supervisor, if they have the gumption to do so. I did have a HOD from my prior office inquire on the status of one of my cases, and I politely directed him to go through the HOCALJ. There are just too many variables out there to jump off the bridge. Now if the interruption was in person, which I just cannot see, then the GS needs to be told to wait, and if it happened then that needs to be directed to the HOCALJ.
I would suggest that answering fire with fire may be appropriate on the fire line in a forest fire, but we are judges and need to exercise judicial temperament in every situation, regardless of how hard it may be to do so. The first sergeant approach while effective with privates, may not be the approach in the courtroom. I have seen enough examples of flaming judges to state it is not effective. Rise above the situation.
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Post by pubdef on May 8, 2014 20:13:43 GMT -5
This situation makes me have nightmares about the situational judgment assessment. Where are the 4 choices on how the ALJ should have handled it?
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Post by jerseymom on May 8, 2014 20:14:45 GMT -5
If this did happen, the HOCALJ and Hod need to be told. The GS was way off base, but as a Judge we deal with many annoying issues. Would this deter anyone from applying for an ALJ position? I don't think so.
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