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Ebb?
Jun 19, 2014 20:05:50 GMT -5
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 19, 2014 20:05:50 GMT -5
Anyone hear anything about the Agency mandating use of ebb for instructions? It seems to be strongly encouraged currently, but I've heard that there is a movement to not allow written instructions and/or instructions that need to be scanned in. I use EBB and love it. But I've always been told it is discretionary and not intended to be mandatory .
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jun 19, 2014 21:06:05 GMT -5
Anyone hear anything about the Agency mandating use of ebb for instructions? It seems to be strongly encouraged currently, but I've heard that there is a movement to not allow written instructions and/or instructions that need to be scanned in. It is not currently mandatory. Electronic Bench Book or eBB is not used in ALL offices yet either. It is the wave of the future though. And yes hand written instructions are being discouraged and either eBB or FIT format is encouraged and will eventually be the way. The big issue is thorough instructions with RFC impairments etc. that result in timely legally sufficient decisions. Consistently and quality are strong words these days.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jun 19, 2014 21:21:00 GMT -5
And all of this is important and makes it absolutely imperative that ALJs and all SSA employees be very computer literate. This is something to consider. If you are not computer literate ... You will need to learn or your life at work will be very difficult. Just sayin....
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 19, 2014 21:44:32 GMT -5
And all of this is important and makes it absolutely imperative that ALJs and all SSA employees be very computer literate. This is something to consider. If you are not computer literate ... You will need to learn or your life at work will be very difficult. Just sayin.... Quoted for the truth of the matter.
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Post by gary on Jun 20, 2014 9:19:25 GMT -5
Wait! Are you guys saying my green eyeshade and goose quill pen won't cut it?
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Ebb?
Jun 21, 2014 8:23:35 GMT -5
gary likes this
Post by cougarfan on Jun 21, 2014 8:23:35 GMT -5
Wait! Are you guys saying my green eyeshade and goose quill pen won't cut it? No, I'd definitely keep the eyeshade and goose quill pen; they will make nice decorations on your desk. They might even make the claimant feel more at ease to walk in and see you sitting there with a green eyeshade and a pen behind your ear.
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Ebb?
Jun 21, 2014 8:45:51 GMT -5
Post by bartleby on Jun 21, 2014 8:45:51 GMT -5
EBB does have some flaws at this time. To be properly used one should be able to type during the hearing, which is rather distracting. The ultimate idea is that one will use it for prehearing notes, hearing notes, and instructions. The one part that is kept quiet is that when EBB is polished and complete, once the hearing and instructions are over, the Judge will hit a key and a simple/rudimentary, legally sufficient decision will be generated. Probably like bench decisions it will do minimal favorable decisions, leaving only denials and more complex issues to be written by the writers. The bench decision has not blossomed as hoped because it also requires typing during the hearing. To be successful, I would recommend that applicants take an advanced typing class and try to get up to 90 words a minute.
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Ebb?
Jun 21, 2014 10:32:50 GMT -5
Post by moopigsdad on Jun 21, 2014 10:32:50 GMT -5
So Bart I am assuming your little fingers are busy typing along at well past 90 wpm.
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 21, 2014 11:35:12 GMT -5
EBB does work best if you type during the hearing; though there have been a couple times when the computers were not working that I took handwritten notes. I began typing my hearing notes on day one of my hearings and haven't looked back, it's much easier for to do that than to hand write my notes because I can type and look at the claimant at the same time, I can't do that when I'm taking hand written notes, plus my handwritten notes aren't always very legible. EBB is a fantastic tool if you are proficient at typing, if not then I'd probably take a different route.
As an EBB user I've never been under the impression that it will be used to generate a complete decision, I've understood the goal is that it will get to the point that it will, with the push of a button, put my credibility (for example) notes in the proper location in template decision and the writer could then clean up that language and expand on it to make it a legally sufficient decision. But my notes/thoughts would be directly in the document so the writer doesn't have to cut and paste. I think it saves me at least 1/2 hour on my instruction writing because I actually take my hearing notes directly in the instructions (called sequential 1) section and then just clean them up after the hearing and highlight the relevant portions and add a couple sentences to explain why I found that testimony important. For me it's been a great tool; but probably not for those who don't type faster than they write.
For those hoping to get hired, I suspect it will be introduced and emphasized during your training.
I'm also a big fan of bench decisions; they save me loads of time and get the decision out the door much faster. One office gave me a lot of freedom to do bench decisions and another asked that I not, but left it up to me.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 21, 2014 11:59:33 GMT -5
MPD, the last test I took was 9 words a minute with 13 mistakes... I vote for dictation. Actually, I do a script, filling in throughout the hearing. Takes me less than 15 minutes to do my instructions using FIT. Most writers seem to like FIT better as EBB has the evidence for paying and denying cases both, along with prehearing notes and can be confusing. Occasionally on complex denials it may take 20-30 minutes for instructions, but that is very seldom. JMHO, as usual.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 21, 2014 15:58:52 GMT -5
I was just kidding you Bart, but I do type 60+ wpm. However, I would be more concerned about listening closely to the claimant and watching expressions and body languages of the claimant and the representative. I say you could learn a lot from those things.
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 21, 2014 17:31:15 GMT -5
I was just kidding you Bart, but I do type 60+ wpm. However, I would be more concerned about listening closely to the claimant and watching expressions and body languages of the claimant and the representative. I say you could learn a lot from those things. You can indeed learn a lot from watching. I had to use paper the other day; I can watch the claimant and listen much better while typing. My advice to any judge would be to try both ways and do what works best for you. The writers who have worked with me the last couple years never once complained about my instructions in ebb format (I am working with different ones now and look forward to their input). I would say the biggest problem with ebb is that you can only use it for adult disability cases. I think it is good that we have so many options made available to us.
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Post by mamaru on Jun 22, 2014 6:39:26 GMT -5
EBB does have some flaws at this time. To be properly used one should be able to type during the hearing, which is rather distracting. The ultimate idea is that one will use it for prehearing notes, hearing notes, and instructions. The one part that is kept quiet is that when EBB is polished and complete, once the hearing and instructions are over, the Judge will hit a key and a simple/rudimentary, legally sufficient decision will be generated. Probably like bench decisions it will do minimal favorable decisions, leaving only denials and more complex issues to be written by the writers. The bench decision has not blossomed as hoped because it also requires typing during the hearing. To be successful, I would recommend that applicants take an advanced typing class and try to get up to 90 words a minute. I am a writer now. Our office does not use EBB but I write for other offices that do. I agree that the format is conducive to generating better decisions because it is comprehensive and a reminder to the judge not to skip information the writer needs to make a legally sufficient decision. In fact, I have seen cases transferred to me in EBB that it seems it would be faster for the judge to generate the decision instead of write instructions and edit. In my prior life I did hearings and took notes on my laptop. It can be done, but I think it would be harder in EBB since you have to insert information, not just type notes. It must be difficult to maintain eye contact with the claimant while filling in blanks. I actually had parties complain that I "hid" behind my computer at hearings. However, it was necessary to get through my docket efficiently. As for computer literacy, I am a 90 word per minute typist and agree it helps with production. For sure you cannot "hunt and peck" while taking hearing notes on a computer.
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Post by onepingonly on Jun 22, 2014 15:51:18 GMT -5
The bench decision has not blossomed as hoped because it also requires typing during the hearing. To be successful, I would recommend that applicants take an advanced typing class and try to get up to 90 words a minute. We must do them differently. I do a lot of bench decisions, and I don't type during hearings at all. No remands on my bench decisions in five years at ODAR. FIT and eBB do not require fast typing (for me, at least) because I'm not writing a ton of narrative. They require a lot of mousing and clicking. I take notes by hand with a pen, then type my instructions in the format sanctioned by the Chief Judge. (That's a blurb up front to announce the outcome, the step of the outcome, and the basis. Then a finding at each step. Then a blurb on the rationale with a key to the weight of crucial opinions. They usually include highlights of the medical evidence and testimony. They're usually one page, but have very rarely run to as much as five if there are long strings of cites to medicals.). My wonderful writers tell me they're in the Goldilocks zone. They say less is more. If I stay out if their way, they do fantastic work. If it's a clear-cut fully favorable, I'll do a bench decision if there's time. If not, I often write it myself the day of the hearing. I almost always let the writers work their magic on unfavorables because, in my office, we are blessed with excellent writers, and in the 8 hours they nominally get, they do a much better job on the summary of the medical record than I have time for. And some of them do an unsurpassed job of the rationale. Three cheers for great writers! They really make the difference between a rewarding job and a struggle. Thank you, excellent writers!
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Post by bartleby on Jun 22, 2014 17:28:17 GMT -5
If you don't type your bench decisions during the hearing when do you type them? You are supposed to read them into the record, so they should be prepared during the hearing. Have I missed something? And good writers make all the difference and bad writers do too!!
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Post by hopefalj on Jun 22, 2014 17:33:17 GMT -5
The bench decision has not blossomed as hoped because it also requires typing during the hearing. To be successful, I would recommend that applicants take an advanced typing class and try to get up to 90 words a minute. We must do them differently. I do a lot of bench decisions, and I don't type during hearings at all. No remands on my bench decisions in five years at ODAR. FIT and eBB do not require fast typing (for me, at least) because I'm not writing a ton of narrative. They require a lot of mousing and clicking. I take notes by hand with a pen, then type my instructions in the format sanctioned by the Chief Judge. (That's a blurb up front to announce the outcome, the step of the outcome, and the basis. Then a finding at each step. Then a blurb on the rationale with a key to the weight of crucial opinions. They usually include highlights of the medical evidence and testimony. They're usually one page, but have very rarely run to as much as five if there are long strings of cites to medicals.). My wonderful writers tell me they're in the Goldilocks zone. They say less is more. If I stay out if their way, they do fantastic work. If it's a clear-cut fully favorable, I'll do a bench decision if there's time. If not, I often write it myself the day of the hearing. I almost always let the writers work their magic on unfavorables because, in my office, we are blessed with excellent writers, and in the 8 hours they nominally get, they do a much better job on the summary of the medical record than I have time for. And some of them do an unsurpassed job of the rationale. Three cheers for great writers! They really make the difference between a rewarding job and a struggle. Thank you, excellent writers! Thanks! I'm just going to assume you're talking about me. I've said it before and I'll say it again... instructions are far from the biggest factor in making my job easier and allowing me to do it well, therefore making it easier on you guys. The most important thing is to make a well-reasoned decision without any significant deficiencies or fatal procedural issues. There is nothing worse than writing an automatic remand. There is nothing better than just being able to write a decision without trying to manufacture a prayer of an argument to try and slip an obvious problem by the AC.
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 22, 2014 21:03:06 GMT -5
If you don't type your bench decisions during the hearing when do you type them? You are supposed to read them into the record, so they should be prepared during the hearing. Have I missed something? And good writers make all the difference and bad writers do too!! 1. I agree that good writers make all the difference. 2. I don't type my Bench decisions during the hearing either. When I do my hearing prep I note the most persuasive evidence in the sequential portion of the EBB; so during the hearing when I do a bench decision I just turn to the sequential section and use it as a template for reading the record in because it reminds me to follow all the steps and make all the findings I need to make. I then do the written portion following my hearings when I'm doing all my instructions.
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Post by bartleby on Jun 22, 2014 21:09:20 GMT -5
Cougarfan, thanks for the information, as you can see, I am not EBB literate yet.
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Post by cougarfan on Jun 22, 2014 21:28:43 GMT -5
No problem Bartleby; the ease with which I could do Bench Decisions was a great byproduct of EBB for me. It works for me, and I always endorse it, but I recognize that it's not for everyone and it's not always convenient to learn a new system while trying to prepare for hearings.
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Ebb?
Jun 23, 2014 8:48:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by onepingonly on Jun 23, 2014 8:48:45 GMT -5
If you don't type your bench decisions during the hearing when do you type them? You are supposed to read them into the record, so they should be prepared during the hearing. Have I missed something? And good writers make all the difference and bad writers do too!! I handwrite notes throughout the hearing that address each element of a decision, and once I see it's going to be a bench decision, I just announce my findings at each step of the sequential evaluation orally in a stream-of-consciousness soliloquy. I then message my scheduler (bless you, wonderful schedulers!) who moves the case to AWRT. (Sorry for the inside-speak.) Then I run the FIT bench decision and incorporate my on-the-record oratory by reference. I sign it and it goes out in the mail within hours.
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