|
Post by Gaidin on Sept 1, 2014 10:15:10 GMT -5
Does anyone know whether a candidate on the register who accepts an ALJ position at OMHA or an Immigration Judge position is automatically taken off the register, or does one later have the option of accepting an ALJ position with SSA should the opportunity arise? Immigration Judge would still allow you to be on the register since it does not hire off the register. OMHA would take you off the register once your hiring is finalized. Caveat to this last one since Agilitymom was contacted by the SEC after being hired by ODAR.
|
|
|
Post by gary on Sept 1, 2014 10:17:43 GMT -5
Does anyone know whether a candidate on the register who accepts an ALJ position at OMHA or an Immigration Judge position is automatically taken off the register, or does one later have the option of accepting an ALJ position with SSA should the opportunity arise? I believe accepting an Immigration Judge position would have no effect on one's position on the register. Accepting an OMHA position of itself did not take candidates off the register--we had reports of people who accepted an OMHA position and were then later offered and accepted an SSA position. However, at some point in the process--perhaps when one starts work for OMHA or even somewhat earlier--being hired by OMHA will result in one's name being removed from the register. If one is an ALJ with OMHA it is possible at some point to apply for an SSA ALJ position but that would be a different process and not a hire off the register.
|
|
|
Post by uclabruin on Sept 1, 2014 10:33:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Gaidin and Gary, it's much appreciated! It's a tough decision whether to apply for Immigration Judge because it appears that Immig Judges are under more restrictive time constraints to issue decisions (and bench rulings) than ALJs at SSA. In addition, Immig Judges have to draft most (if not all) their decisions and do not have decision writers that are available to the ALJs at SSA. Management for Immigration Judges apparently is less supportive than at SSA. Just some thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by futuressaalj on Sept 1, 2014 12:00:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Gaidin and Gary, it's much appreciated! It's a tough decision whether to apply for Immigration Judge because it appears that Immig Judges are under more restrictive time constraints to issue decisions (and bench rulings) than ALJs at SSA. In addition, Immig Judges have to draft most (if not all) their decisions and do not have decision writers that are available to the ALJs at SSA. Management for Immigration Judges apparently is less supportive than at SSA. Just some thoughts. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. Apply for the IJ position and make your decision if they offer you a job. Even if you take a job with Immigration, you can still process for and accept an OMHA or SSA ALJ position if they offer you one. They are different jobs.
|
|
|
Post by ok1956 on Sept 1, 2014 20:05:43 GMT -5
I am applying for the Imigration Judge position in New Orleans. Probably a long shot, but I am a glutton for punishment! Wish me luck, Good Luck that is, I have plenty of bad luck. Cheers Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by anotherfed on Sept 1, 2014 20:06:10 GMT -5
I am applying for the Imigration Judge position in New Orleans. Probably a long shot, but I am a glutton for punishment! Wish me luck, Good Luck that is, I have plenty of bad luck. Cheers Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by gary on Sept 1, 2014 20:29:11 GMT -5
I am applying for the Imigration Judge position in New Orleans. Probably a long shot, but I am a glutton for punishment! Wish me luck, Good Luck that is, I have plenty of bad luck. Cheers Good Luck!
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Sept 2, 2014 9:19:57 GMT -5
I am applying for the Imigration Judge position in New Orleans. Probably a long shot, but I am a glutton for punishment! Wish me luck, Good Luck that is, I have plenty of bad luck. Cheers Good luck!!!!
|
|
|
Post by robespierre on Sept 2, 2014 9:20:42 GMT -5
Sometimes agencies post job announcements where they are seeking to hire an ALJ who is currently sitting with another agency or eligible for reinstatement, i.e., already has the "ALJ series" job rating. Am I correct that working as an immigration judge will NOT make you eligible for those? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Sept 2, 2014 9:30:23 GMT -5
Sometimes agencies post job announcements where they are seeking to hire an ALJ who is currently sitting with another agency or eligible for reinstatement, i.e., already has the "ALJ series" job rating. Am I correct that working as an immigration judge will NOT make you eligible for those? Thanks. Yes, you are correct. The IJ positions are 0905, not the ALJ code of 0935. The 0905 is what most attorney positions are coded in the federal government.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Sept 2, 2014 9:31:18 GMT -5
I am applying for the Imigration Judge position in New Orleans. Probably a long shot, but I am a glutton for punishment! Wish me luck, Good Luck that is, I have plenty of bad luck. Cheers Just some friendly advice (for this or any OPM announcement) based on my observations and experience (I did employment law for another agency back in the day) (maybe this seems really logical after you read it, but I find that applying for federal jobs is different than applying for other jobs): 1) Read the announcement fully. Multiple times. The agency and OPM work long and hard to get those announcements done before the position is ever announced. The words matter. They matter for ranking candidates. They matter for salary determinations. If you miss any one little thing, OPM can and will mark you ineligible (or not among the most qualified, depending on the process...it's complicated). You, as the candidate, have the burden of demonstrating that you meet the qualifications for the position. Make it easy for OPM to find you eligible and the people who make the hiring decision. Remember, for each vacancy, there are a ton of applicants. 2) The IJ posting requires separate "QRFs" (quality ranking factors) (used to be called KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities)). You need to demonstrate #1 plus at least three others (listed in the announcement). You can't skip this step (sometimes this requirement is less obvious in an announcement). Try to write up all of them, if you can with a straight-face. Write them like you are explaining your qualifications to a jury. Remember, OPM specialists are not lawyers, they are personnel specialists (not in anyway a negative statement, just a statement of fact). Also, they work on postings for everything from truck drivers to doctors, etc, etc, etc. If the government employs the position, OPM likely deals with some of the hiring. They do not specialize in hiring lawyers/judges, so do not presume that they know what you do or what it means precisely (unless it is part of the announcement, e.g., for a labor lawyer, appears before MSPB, FLRA, etc.). So make sure you use the words that the posting uses and explain fully (again, like you were explaining to a jury). This way you will make sure that the non-lawyer who is evaluating your application is clear that you meet the minimum requirements (and then some). 3) Make sure you include all the dox they want (some ask for weird dox; I recently had one app ask for law school transcript plus statement of relative class standing!). When in doubt, include (as a former federal employee, sometimes I am not clear about whether to include SF-50s, performance evals, etc. I include. They check the box...). If you routinely apply for federal jobs, you might want to keep a certificate of good standing on hand (usually dated within 3 months). If you are getting close to the deadline and are admitted to more than one state, you can always see which one takes electronic requests (payment over phone/internet by card rather than the written request with a check). They might even send you a scan of the cert. That is all you upload anyway. 4) Try to get everything uploaded well before the deadline in case you have any problems so you can get a receipt that your application is complete before the deadline. If you upload right before the deadline, you will get an "incomplete" because it takes a bit for OPM to "process" all your documents and only then will your application be marked "received." And this also makes sure you have time in case you actually have an announcement that requires you to mail, yes, mail your application. 5) If an application hits the OPM black hole, keep trying. It happens. Good luck! -Miss P.S. If anyone has specific questions that they don't want to post to the full board, feel free to send me a PM. I'll do my best to help. This is incredibly helpful for any future non-government attorneys that are considering an application for an ALJ position as well. I think some if the initial cuts could have been avoided had our fellow applicants had this knowledge.
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 2, 2014 9:50:45 GMT -5
Thanks, hopefalj. I wasn't posting at the time of the application process, and hearing about all the appeals really breaks my heart. So I have been thinking about what advice I would give, so I took this opportunity to jot down some thoughts. I hope y'all will take it in the spirit I meant it, that it might just help to have a bit of a different perspective about applying for these jobs. Again, best of luck!
|
|
|
Post by yellowrose on Sept 2, 2014 10:04:34 GMT -5
Missundaztood-- Thanks for the information. I have recently heard, that with the deluge of applications for every job posting, some agencies (USAO, FDIC) have stopped reviewing applications after the first 50. As a result, I have been attempting to respond to postings as quickly as possible, not waiting for the closing date. Do you know if that is true? Do they have any obligation to review all applications, particularly to meet veterans preferences?
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 2, 2014 10:28:29 GMT -5
Missundaztood-- Thanks for the information. I have recently heard, that with the deluge of applications for every job posting, some agencies (USAO, FDIC) have stopped reviewing applications after the first 50. As a result, I have been attempting to respond to postings as quickly as possible, not waiting for the closing date. Do you know if that is true? Do they have any obligation to review all applications, particularly to meet veterans preferences? It depends on the posting. If they are only taking x number of applicants, the announcement will say. The ALJ application has done that in the past. Once those vacancies reach the number, no more applications will be taken (I believe I have seen SSA do this for attorneys recently). Others will refer to the hiring authority "all qualified candidates" (which is what I believe the IJ posting says, sorry I do not have it in front of me); others will only refer the most qualified (those announements usually say nothing). I do not think OPM can arbitrarily cut off a number of applicants unless it is part of the posted process, especially if you are a vet, and not even consider your application (as I said, there is that curious OPM black hole and I suspect then no one gets considered). That IMHO would be a good appeal.
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 2, 2014 10:44:02 GMT -5
Quick clarification, my post above is when OPM does the "qualified" cut. If the application goes straight to the agency, and OPM only posted the vacancy, it is far less clear.
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 2, 2014 11:06:48 GMT -5
It is 5 CFR 302.301 that requires that the rules about the receipt of an application be made public (in the vacancy announcement) for excepted positions, which are what attorney/judge jobs are classified (rather than competitive). And the agency is required to "apply its rules uniformly to all applicants who meet conditions of the rules and shall furnish information concerning the rules to an applicant on his/her request." (Subsection b).
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Sept 2, 2014 12:49:28 GMT -5
It is 5 CFR 302.301 that requires that the rules about the receipt of an application be made public (in the vacancy announcement) for excepted positions, which are what attorney/judge jobs are classified (rather than competitive). And the agency is required to "apply its rules uniformly to all applicants who meet conditions of the rules and shall furnish information concerning the rules to an applicant on his/her request." (Subsection b). Funny, but everytime I ask an agency to provide information concerning the rules for attorneyX job, they never get back to me. I believe they are also supposed to inform you if you made a certificate, if and when requested for such information. It has never happened in 15-odd years of applying for various 0905 GS-whatever jobs. I either magically get called for an interview or I hear crickets.
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 2, 2014 12:54:53 GMT -5
Yes, unfortunately there is so much mystery involved in the process that I really hate to give specifics. It really is a what should happen. I cannot promise it does.
|
|
|
Post by privateatty on Sept 2, 2014 15:56:21 GMT -5
Now going into my seventh year of reading and posting on this Board, Mussundazstood has offerred some of the best advice I've seen.
While we could not prove what is the number one reason folks don't advance in this process I would posit its because they don't read the directions and stop to think: what is it are they asking for? IMO, applicants give OPM what they think OPM wants rather than what is actually in black and white. I see this alot with lawyers as an ALJ and I just shake my head. I suspect oftentimes its a mixture of inbred arrogance and a touch of laziness; in other words, they don't do the work and approach the application with an agenda that is truly their own. On these pages I've seen State Court Judges bemoan the lack of time afforded and many others find it impossible to believe that a "minor" omission could sink them.
The best response I've ever heard from a fellow ALJ on how he/she got such a high score was that "I gave them what they asked for in their own language".
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Sept 3, 2014 0:24:01 GMT -5
Missundaztood-- Thanks for the information. I have recently heard, that with the deluge of applications for every job posting, some agencies (USAO, FDIC) have stopped reviewing applications after the first 50. As a result, I have been attempting to respond to postings as quickly as possible, not waiting for the closing date. Do you know if that is true? Do they have any obligation to review all applications, particularly to meet veterans preferences? BTW, welcome, yellowrose! Sorry I was using the app earlier today and did not realize this was your first post. Again, welcome!!! Also, our usual "greeters" are busy as new ALJs, so this is not meant to be negative just an observation IMHO, but the board is a little "off" its game until their return to full participation.
|
|