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Post by prescient on Jun 7, 2015 12:50:48 GMT -5
....Also bear in mind that the locality pay bands are not really kept up to date and the formulas are not necessarily tied to the true cost of living. ... As I understand it, locality pay is not related to overall local cost of living, but the general pay level of specific types of private sector workers. You noted Houston's very high locality pay (in the 905 series). This is due, I'm told, to the high salaries paid to Houston lawyers, impelled by the oil and gas industry. The idea of locality pay is to have a federal salary that at least tries to compete with the private sector, for specific types of employees. In some localities, certain fields (law, geology, robotics) pay far above what the rest of the locals are making. This results in some areas where the locality pay is notably below (or, less frequently, above) the overall cost of living. This system, which sort of assumes people don't move for jobs, is a bit anachronistic nowadays. Especially for ALJ jobs, since in recent times moving to get the job appears to have become the norm. My understanding is that Houston's high locality pay was a kickback to NASA...
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 7, 2015 14:51:26 GMT -5
Even so, I don't think lawyers (public or private) or judges are that highly paid in Vegas or Tucson (or some of the other places on that list.
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Post by hapi2balj on Jun 12, 2015 9:00:31 GMT -5
I'm an outsider [edited from the incorrect 'insider' thanks to luckylady's helpful correction] (DOJ with TS clearance), non-vet, GS-15/Step 8. So, thinking way way ahead, if I get an offer do I understand correctly it'll be at the AL 3 level, with the letter (A thru F) likely corresponding to the next-highest salary than what I currently make? On a related note to "offer" - I can't find it right now but sometime in the past, someone opined that "if you're already a GS-15 attorney, OPM wants you." At least that's what I'm recalling. Any thoughts on that? I'm obviously looking for encouragement but what I'm really more interested in is reality. (Of course, I have to make the register first - hopefully I'll be on it here in a few months.) Sratty, I'm trying to follow your optimistic approach! Re: my 2nd graf above, I found it! It was posted by bikeboy in "ALJ Hiring FAQ Part I - Intro & Hiring Process" on July 3, 2014. In pertinent part:
"My prior post/advice is mainly for that group of GS-15s who are highly likely to get offers. If you are a GS-15, SSA will want you regardless of your OPM score-rating. You are a proven producer with significant experience who will undoubtedly do well in this position. SSA will find a spot for you."
Friends who know more than I do (that would be just about all of you), what do you think? I'm a GS-15 attorney with several years of experience and a recently-reaffirmed Top Secret clearance. Assuming I survive the online component and the DC portion, should I be at least cautiously optimistic, if the GAL is right?
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Post by mamaru on Jun 13, 2015 10:38:51 GMT -5
I hope that's true, hope2. Keep in mind when going through past posts that this round is an entirely new and different process. The date of that post suggests that the poster was relying on the old process, not the current process. I agree that being a GS-15 should carry great weight, regardless of your score, and I hope it still does because I think your achievement should be rewarded. Just keep in mind that the GS-15 isn't going to be a factor weighed by SSA unless you get through both phases of testing. First things first. Go forth and excel!
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Post by hapi2balj on Jun 14, 2015 19:58:48 GMT -5
I hope that's true, hope2. Keep in mind when going through past posts that this round is an entirely new and different process. The date of that post suggests that the poster was relying on the old process, not the current process. I agree that being a GS-15 should carry great weight, regardless of your score, and I hope it still does because I think your achievement should be rewarded. Just keep in mind that the GS-15 isn't going to be a factor weighed by SSA unless you get through both phases of testing. First things first. Go forth and excel! Thanks for the encouraging (and cautioning) words, mamaru. Without going into detail, I can tell you that I've looked at the sample questions 'several' times for the online component which opens next week, and I am almost giddy. I have enjoyed dissecting them and answering them over and over again. Translation, I hope: I am the perfect nerdy type to be a good ALJ! I continue to take my lead from Sratty - positive thinking!
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Post by hapi2balj on Jun 15, 2015 7:14:12 GMT -5
Translation, I hope: I am the perfect nerdy type to be a good ALJ! ? Sorry if I offended you, devildog! All I mean is, if I get pleasure out of answering sample test questions over and over again, I may be well-suited for the glasses-on-nose, peering-at-computer, poring-over-documents more monotonous parts of the job!
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donk
Full Member
Posts: 42
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Post by donk on Jun 15, 2015 9:03:04 GMT -5
Good luck to all testing! Wish I had known the GS-15 thing- I may not have put myself through all of this as a lowly GS-14.
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Post by anotherfed on Jun 15, 2015 9:44:28 GMT -5
Good luck to all testing! Wish I had known the GS-15 thing- I may not have put myself through all of this as a lowly GS-14.
Don't be disheartened. A GS-15 is just one credential. Medical background, foreign language fluency, SSA experience are all more valuable, IMHO. That's why SSA has an interview: so they can evaluate the whole person, not just OPM'S NOR.
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Post by mamaru on Jun 15, 2015 11:39:22 GMT -5
Donk, SSA has hired 12's and 13's. Don't be disheartened.
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Post by lizdarcy on Jun 15, 2015 14:48:31 GMT -5
Everyone who meets the qualifications can be cautiously optimistic. What an employer is seeking in a candidate can be met in various ways. A lot of non-feds are going to Falls Church; thus, it seems that a federal grade level and federal job experience are not the ultimate predictors of success. Really, I think, it's just a question of whether you can demonstrate the potential successfully to hold a hearing, write a decision and mediate a dispute. You also need to show that you have a "judicial temperament." In our house, we now like to use the word "judginess," coined on this board a while back.
No one should take anything for granted and no one should give up. This can be a stressful and anxiety-ridden process. It's a good idea sometimes to take a deep breath and stretch.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 15, 2015 14:51:47 GMT -5
Everyone who meets the qualifications can be cautiously optimistic. What an employer is seeking in a candidate can be met in various ways. A lot of non-feds are going to Falls Church; thus, it seems that a federal grade level and federal job experience are not the ultimate predictors of success. Really, I think, it's just a question of whether you can demonstrate the potential successfully to hold a hearing, write a decision and mediate a dispute. You also need to show that you have a "judicial temperament." In our house, we now like to use the word "judginess," coined on this board a while back. No one should take anything for granted and no one should give up. This can be a stressful and anxiety-ridden process. It's a good idea sometimes to take a deep breath and stretch. lizdarcy be aware that there is an ongoing dispute over the royalties to the term "judginess" between myself and a young lady purporting to have originated the term. anotherfed please be aware that I have already proclaimed dibs on all residuals from the use of the disputed term at Lizdarcy's domicile.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 15, 2015 15:12:13 GMT -5
And, even a GS -15 can blow an interview.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 15, 2015 15:18:45 GMT -5
Everyone who meets the qualifications can be cautiously optimistic. What an employer is seeking in a candidate can be met in various ways. A lot of non-feds are going to Falls Church; thus, it seems that a federal grade level and federal job experience are not the ultimate predictors of success. Really, I think, it's just a question of whether you can demonstrate the potential successfully to hold a hearing, write a decision and mediate a dispute. You also need to show that you have a "judicial temperament." In our house, we now like to use the word "judginess," coined on this board a while back. No one should take anything for granted and no one should give up. This can be a stressful and anxiety-ridden process. It's a good idea sometimes to take a deep breath and stretch. Yes, SSA accounts for 90% of the hires and yes, being a GS-15 demonstrates federal success, but as lizdarcy points out, these are factors. What the hiring authorities at SSA or SEC or OMHA or LABOR may be looking at are different, but what is quoted above you may take to the bank--at least in my agency. Being at the right place at the right time is THE key. Having a good to high score and interviewing well will likely get you to the metaphysical "right"--the rest is Providence and not getting sunk by a bad reference.
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Post by anotherfed on Jun 15, 2015 17:18:01 GMT -5
Everyone who meets the qualifications can be cautiously optimistic. What an employer is seeking in a candidate can be met in various ways. A lot of non-feds are going to Falls Church; thus, it seems that a federal grade level and federal job experience are not the ultimate predictors of success. Really, I think, it's just a question of whether you can demonstrate the potential successfully to hold a hearing, write a decision and mediate a dispute. You also need to show that you have a "judicial temperament." In our house, we now like to use the word "judginess," coined on this board a while back. No one should take anything for granted and no one should give up. This can be a stressful and anxiety-ridden process. It's a good idea sometimes to take a deep breath and stretch. lizdarcy be aware that there is an ongoing dispute over the royalties to the term "judginess" between myself and a young lady purporting to have originated the term. anotherfed please be aware that I have already proclaimed dibs on all residuals from the use of the disputed term at Lizdarcy's domicile. And you can deposit my 77% of said residuals into my account, per my copyright.
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Post by auroraborealis on Aug 16, 2015 20:14:26 GMT -5
Rest of the U.S. does indeed mean what it says. Federal pay is adjusted for the area you work in. While 105,900 is technically the base the real base is the "Rest of U.S." figure. Bear in mind that ALJ maxes out at ~170,000 no matter where you live. There is a statutory cap which I don't fully understand but basically insures that ALJ's (and GS-14 and GS-15 employees who are overtime eligible) do not earn more than an SES (Senior Executive Service) employee. Also bear in mind that the locality pay bands are not really kept up to date and the formulas are not necessarily tied to the true cost of living. For example the locality pay for Houston is incredibly generous compared to cost of living where as the locality pay for the D.C. area is just enough to keep you on the comfortable side of middle class despite both being very big locality bumps over the base. As for starting at higher than entry level, that is for high level federal employees such as close to maxed out GS-14's and GS-15's. The idea is that if you are moving to a higher grade in the federal government you are not supposed to risk a pay cut. If you are coming from outside of the federal system this provision does not apply to you. I'm still not clear on this whole locality pay v. ALJ entry level pay. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself by looking this far ahead, but I also want to arm myself with information. I'm a current fed employee---with several years of experience. The entry level pay for the ALJ is below my current salary (AL 3, rate A) (as are a number of the locality pay figures). Hypothetically, IF i were to be lucky enough to be brought on board with an agency, is there a chance that I would be hired at a higher "level" within the AL3 band so that I'm not taking a pay cut. If that is true, then how does the locality pay factor in to that once you take on a position in a specific location (esp. if the pay is say several thousand dollars lower) than that entry level figure.
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Post by gary on Aug 16, 2015 20:25:19 GMT -5
Rest of the U.S. does indeed mean what it says. Federal pay is adjusted for the area you work in. While 105,900 is technically the base the real base is the "Rest of U.S." figure. Bear in mind that ALJ maxes out at ~170,000 no matter where you live. There is a statutory cap which I don't fully understand but basically insures that ALJ's (and GS-14 and GS-15 employees who are overtime eligible) do not earn more than an SES (Senior Executive Service) employee. Also bear in mind that the locality pay bands are not really kept up to date and the formulas are not necessarily tied to the true cost of living. For example the locality pay for Houston is incredibly generous compared to cost of living where as the locality pay for the D.C. area is just enough to keep you on the comfortable side of middle class despite both being very big locality bumps over the base. As for starting at higher than entry level, that is for high level federal employees such as close to maxed out GS-14's and GS-15's. The idea is that if you are moving to a higher grade in the federal government you are not supposed to risk a pay cut. If you are coming from outside of the federal system this provision does not apply to you. I'm still not clear on this whole locality pay v. ALJ entry level pay. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself by looking this far ahead, but I also want to arm myself with information. I'm a current fed employee---with several years of experience. The entry level pay for the ALJ is below my current salary (AL 3, rate A) (as are a number of the locality pay figures). Hypothetically, IF i were to be lucky enough to be brought on board with an agency, is there a chance that I would be hired at a higher "level" within the AL3 band so that I'm not taking a pay cut. If that is true, then how does the locality pay factor in to that once you take on a position in a specific location (esp. if the pay is say several thousand dollars lower) than that entry level figure. 1. Find the basic pay table for your pay schedule--probably GS. 2. Find your grade and step on that table and note the amount of basic pay for it. 3. Find the basic pay table for ALJs. Look at the AL3 row and see which step is the first one that is higher than the amount noted at 2. As long as it is step F or lower, they can bring you in at that level. 4. Find the locality pay table for ALJs for the locality you are interested in, and locate the grade and step you determined at 3. (If you are in no more specific locality, your locality is "Rest of U.S.") That is what they can start you at.
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Post by luckylady2 on Aug 16, 2015 21:49:28 GMT -5
You might also note that ALJ's salaries are tied to that of another federal position (somebody else on the Board can probably name the specific position), which effectively caps the ALJ salary at $168,700. Once you reach that, you will not get a pay increase unless and until the tied position gets one. So you may be able to start out at a higher rate, but when you reach the cap, that's it, and starting out higher essentially means getting capped sooner.
OPM's website has more specifics: /www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/administrative-law-judge-pay-system/
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Post by auroraborealis on Aug 17, 2015 7:45:25 GMT -5
I'm still not clear on this whole locality pay v. ALJ entry level pay. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself by looking this far ahead, but I also want to arm myself with information. I'm a current fed employee---with several years of experience. The entry level pay for the ALJ is below my current salary (AL 3, rate A) (as are a number of the locality pay figures). Hypothetically, IF i were to be lucky enough to be brought on board with an agency, is there a chance that I would be hired at a higher "level" within the AL3 band so that I'm not taking a pay cut. If that is true, then how does the locality pay factor in to that once you take on a position in a specific location (esp. if the pay is say several thousand dollars lower) than that entry level figure. 1. Find the basic pay table for your pay schedule--probably GS. 2. Find your grade and step on that table and note the amount of basic pay for it. 3. Find the basic pay table for ALJs. Look at the AL3 row and see which step is the first one that is higher than the amount noted at 2. As long as it is step F or lower, they can bring you in at that level. 4. Find the locality pay table for ALJs for the locality you are interested in, and locate the grade and step you determined at 3. (If you are in no more specific locality, your locality is "Rest of U.S.") That is what they can start you at. Ok, that is what I hoped/figured, but wasn't 100%. Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by Gaidin on Aug 17, 2015 9:17:00 GMT -5
1. Find the basic pay table for your pay schedule--probably GS. 2. Find your grade and step on that table and note the amount of basic pay for it. 3. Find the basic pay table for ALJs. Look at the AL3 row and see which step is the first one that is higher than the amount noted at 2. As long as it is step F or lower, they can bring you in at that level. 4. Find the locality pay table for ALJs for the locality you are interested in, and locate the grade and step you determined at 3. (If you are in no more specific locality, your locality is "Rest of U.S.") That is what they can start you at. Ok, that is what I hoped/figured, but wasn't 100%. Thanks for clarifying. Other people have reported that if you're going to ask for the step increase you need to have all of the documentation available to send to ODAR when given the offer AND you need to ask for the increase when given the offer.
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Post by hapi2balj on Aug 17, 2015 9:41:27 GMT -5
1. Find the basic pay table for your pay schedule--probably GS. 2. Find your grade and step on that table and note the amount of basic pay for it. 3. Find the basic pay table for ALJs. Look at the AL3 row and see which step is the first one that is higher than the amount noted at 2. As long as it is step F or lower, they can bring you in at that level. 4. Find the locality pay table for ALJs for the locality you are interested in, and locate the grade and step you determined at 3. (If you are in no more specific locality, your locality is "Rest of U.S.") That is what they can start you at. Ok, that is what I hoped/figured, but wasn't 100%. Thanks for clarifying. I suspect this might not be true for everyone, but for whatever it's worth I went through the steps outlined by gary, and then separately went to the ALJ pay scale for my locality and found the salary which is the lowest but still higher than my current as a GS-15 agency attorney. The result was the same. :-)
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