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Post by anotherfed on Aug 27, 2015 9:39:17 GMT -5
Ok everybody, I have this last question. As someone that has spent 4 weeks with you in training, there is only one, maybe two others of our class, that would look worse than you in a leotard, so no is the answer to the leotard! (funkyodar is one of the other two). tiger Ok now I am totally bumfuddled......If I am not supposed to wear a leotard, just what am I supposed to wear under this robe? Because Funky and others told me at training that is what all the cool judges wear and I have received nothing but comments for the past year wherever I go. (Although Susie, my better half, did finally tell me after a couple of months that the zipper goes in front and not to wear it like a hospital gown nor to WalMart any more.) I thought I saw you in the FB pictorial of WalMart shoppers ...
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Post by judgmental on Aug 31, 2015 21:45:59 GMT -5
I am really putting the cart before the horse, as I just self-scheduled, but I have questions about hours of work per week, minimum days at the office, etc., that I would need to figure out, assuming I make it past WD, SI and Logic, in order to decide where I would go, since my spouse also has career, I have kids who love their schools, and I would love to transfer back to my popular metro area at some point.
What are the required hours per week? In my first year, could I put in four 10-hour days (sometime between 6:30 and 6) and then drive/fly home to have a long weekend with family? Or work four 10-hour days, one five hour day, and bank five hours of credit for the week, to be applied toward staying home with family on another week?
If I could telework after first year, would I need to telework within 2 hours of my designated office, or just two hours' drive of any old SSA hearing office? Could I then telework 8 days a month, so, say, I was there in person for two 10-hour days each week, and then teleworking two 10-hour days each week?
The more yesses to these questions, the more locations I would be able to consider.
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Post by luckylady2 on Aug 31, 2015 23:58:20 GMT -5
Hey, Judgmental, welcome to the Board!
First of all, I hope you realize that the geographical area you indicated on your March 2013 application is your maximum universe. AFTER you get through the testing and AFTER you get placed on the Register and IF your score is reachable so that your name appears on a cert for one of your cities, THEN you have some say ("yes I would accept if offered" or "no I wouldn't" only) for the certed cities on which your name appears for that particular hiring go-round. So you are waaaaaaaay far away from deciding which cities you would consider.
And, believe it or not, others have asked these questions before and had them answered. So reading the FAQ sections at the top of the General section can be helpful, but there's also a search function that you might find very useful in finding the extensive discussions on this topic that have gone on before.
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Post by judgmental on Sept 1, 2015 6:00:24 GMT -5
Thanks for your patience I have finally figured out that the search at the top of the forum screen works. I had been trying to use the search to the upper right of the post box and I was getting nothing!
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Post by christina on Sept 1, 2015 6:53:25 GMT -5
judgmental, no telework the first year and then i think you are supposed to be within 2 hours of your office after that. As far as i know, the 10-4 schedule is available the first year. however, please rely on a judge who knows the union contract over me on that point. another option is use credit hours to build up extra leave and then use credit hours to get home more often. i have seen judges go the credit hour route.
at least for me, i am an attorney, not a judge, i cannot work credit hours if i convert to the 10-4 schedule so i prefer credit hours as i can work extra when i want to and take days off that i want to. im not sure if judges can do both but i wanted to at least mention credit hours as an option too.
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Post by funkyodar on Sept 1, 2015 7:13:56 GMT -5
Also, whether you can take every Friday off has some elements beyond your control. IE, hearing room availability. As the new judge in an office, you are lowest on the ladder and will likely have to take hearing slots that others don't want until you build up some seniority. Unfortunately, those judges higher on the ladder may be taking every Friday off, meaning you will get stuck with Friday hearings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 7:44:16 GMT -5
Judgmental: The following is direct plagiarism from a fellow ALJ's helpful email and is a great synopsis:
(Note: the "2 hour" distance rule is urban legend. Does it actually exist as a definitive personnel "rule"? Who knows. And then 2 hours ... how? By train? by Air? Walking? As the crow flies? No one knows. And from what point to what point? Your desk at home to your desk at work? Or ODAR city limits to your home city limits? No one knows. And then from exactly when to when? When you first open your eyes while still in bed on a telework morning? Or after a cup of coffee in the kitchen? Or does it start when your tires physically leave your driveway/city? No one knows and if you try to find answers you will be greeted with as many interpretations as there are interpreters.)
You can come in as early as 5:00 a.m. and stay as late as 10:00 p.m. weekdays ● But only time from 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. counts toward your 40-hour workweek or the accumulation of credit hours (which accumulate in ¼ hour increments) ● On a regular workday you can work 6 hours, taking 2 hours of leave/credit with no need to build-in a half-hour lunch ● Working 6:30 to 6:00 p.m. on a weekday, earns 3 Credit Hours (under our contract, to avail yourself of Credit Hours you are supposed to declare your intent to use Credit Hours in writing or by email annually to your chief judge) ● You must be at work (or call in) by 9:30 a.m. or be deemed absent without leave ● Lunch is to be between 11:00 and 2:00 unless you communicate otherwise; but you must work the first and last 2 hours of your workday, so if you come in at 9:30, lunch should not be taken until 11:30, and if you come in at 6:30 and plan To leave at 3:00, lunch should be finished by 1:00 (see PPM S610_1 & PPM S610_3) ● We get 15-minute breaks both in the morning and afternoon; a ½-hour lunch is presumed unless you communicate otherwise (“An agency may not extend a regularly scheduled lunch break by permitting an employee to take an authorized rest period (with pay) prior to or immediately following lunch” www.opm.gov/ policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/work-schedules/fact-sheets/lunch-or-other-meal-periods/) ● ALJs can carry over to the next pay period no more than 24 Credit Hours (you can earn up to 33 hours, but only 24 will carry into the next pay period; you cannot take credit hours before you have earned them for the week) ● You cannot fulfill any of your 40-hour workweek obligation on weekends (ALJ’s, unlike other employees, can earn up to 8 credit hours on the weekend) ● You can earn no more than a total of 8 credit hours between 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on non-regular workdays (Saturdays or Sundays) in any calendar week and work weeks run from Sunday to Saturday (see 5 USC § 6103 / § 4(A)(2)(b)(i-iii)) ● On the weekend, if you work more than 5 hours of credit on a single day you are supposed to take ½ hour for lunch and reflect it on the timesheet (PPM S610_1), though management can waive that requirement -- and just about any other! ● You cannot earn credit hours working on a holiday or while working at home; there is flexibility in scheduling for religious belief purposes (http://www.opm.gov/policy-data- oversight/pay-leave/work-schedules/fact-sheets/adjustment-of-work-schedules-for-religious-observances/) ● You can save up to 240 hours of annual leave, but anything over that is “use or lose.” Sick leave can be built up indefinitely. So, consider using credit hours for sick leave.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Sept 1, 2015 7:55:53 GMT -5
PJ, do most Judges bring their lunch or go out?
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Post by christina on Sept 1, 2015 7:58:54 GMT -5
phoenix. that likely varies so much by judge and office there is no set answer. in my office, a lot of judges will shorten their lunch a lot on hearing days and either eat in or grab something close.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 8:08:19 GMT -5
Each their own style.
And you will get this hammered and re-hammered on you in training due to past ALJ "incidents" that consorting/commingling/etc, of ALJs with non-ALJ's and especially with outside contractors, is uh....uh..."discouraged" ...appears to be a viable description. In this day and age any "appearance of impropriety" by ALJs will set off alarms, innocent or not, it is the "appearance" that is called into question.
Thus some ALJs will hold hearings straight through the day with no breaks or lunch (I have done and still do this when possible). That of course depends on your HR and VE who may demand same and you have no choice but to comply. (More often though you are stymied and twiddling thumbs waiting for reps and/or claimants to show up.) On non-hearing days it is very common to work straight through the day, especially if you come in at 6:30 am are going to take off at 3 pm and not go for any additional credit hours. And it is just as common for ALJ's just to eat in their offices alone, or skip breaks and take an hour for lunch elsewhere; the majority I have seen are again alone. This is simply because ALJ's schedules vary; fellow ALJ's are in hearings, gone on telework, working through the day, off on credit, etc.
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Post by phoenixrakkasan on Sept 1, 2015 8:12:44 GMT -5
Thanks. You answered my question. It seems that Judges can take an hour for lunch by skipping breaks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 8:21:59 GMT -5
You are in charge of your own time/breaks etc. Lunch, no lunch, breaks or not, you decide. Time in and time out, you decide.
The kicker is the office atmosphere. Each is different. Some offices will clock and dock you down to the minute as to when you are in and out. Others are much more congenial and common sense, e.g. we trust you judge to accurately report your times on your own without continuously looking over your shoulder. Dress code is same way; some offices are shirt and tie for men others are pull overs, jeans and boots.
One uniformity among offices: bring your own coffee, tea, water and cup.
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Post by bartleby on Sept 1, 2015 8:29:25 GMT -5
IIRC, according to the contract, Judges do not have to call in until 10:30 if they are going to be late or absent. Seems I had a discussion with a HOCALJ in Toledo over same...
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Post by Gaidin on Sept 1, 2015 9:39:10 GMT -5
Judgmental: The following is direct plagiarism from a fellow ALJ's helpful email and is a great synopsis:
(Note: the "2 hour" distance rule is urban legend. Does it actually exist as a definitive personnel "rule"? Who knows. And then 2 hours ... how? By train? by Air? Walking? As the crow flies? No one knows. And from what point to what point? Your desk at home to your desk at work? Or ODAR city limits to your home city limits? No one knows. And then from exactly when to when? When you first open your eyes while still in bed on a telework morning? Or after a cup of coffee in the kitchen? Or does it start when your tires physically leave your driveway/city? No one knows and if you try to find answers you will be greeted with as many interpretations as there are interpreters.)
You can come in as early as 5:00 a.m. and stay as late as 10:00 p.m. weekdays ● But only time from 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. counts toward your 40-hour workweek or the accumulation of credit hours (which accumulate in ¼ hour increments) ● On a regular workday you can work 6 hours, taking 2 hours of leave/credit with no need to build-in a half-hour lunch ● Working 6:30 to 6:00 p.m. on a weekday, earns 3 Credit Hours (under our contract, to avail yourself of Credit Hours you are supposed to declare your intent to use Credit Hours in writing or by email annually to your chief judge) ● You must be at work (or call in) by 9:30 a.m. or be deemed absent without leave ● Lunch is to be between 11:00 and 2:00 unless you communicate otherwise; but you must work the first and last 2 hours of your workday, so if you come in at 9:30, lunch should not be taken until 11:30, and if you come in at 6:30 and plan To leave at 3:00, lunch should be finished by 1:00 (see PPM S610_1 & PPM S610_3) ● We get 15-minute breaks both in the morning and afternoon; a ½-hour lunch is presumed unless you communicate otherwise (“An agency may not extend a regularly scheduled lunch break by permitting an employee to take an authorized rest period (with pay) prior to or immediately following lunch” www.opm.gov/ policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/work-schedules/fact-sheets/lunch-or-other-meal-periods/) ● ALJs can carry over to the next pay period no more than 24 Credit Hours (you can earn up to 33 hours, but only 24 will carry into the next pay period; you cannot take credit hours before you have earned them for the week) ● You cannot fulfill any of your 40-hour workweek obligation on weekends (ALJ’s, unlike other employees, can earn up to 8 credit hours on the weekend) ● You can earn no more than a total of 8 credit hours between 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on non-regular workdays (Saturdays or Sundays) in any calendar week and work weeks run from Sunday to Saturday (see 5 USC § 6103 / § 4(A)(2)(b)(i-iii)) ● On the weekend, if you work more than 5 hours of credit on a single day you are supposed to take ½ hour for lunch and reflect it on the timesheet (PPM S610_1), though management can waive that requirement -- and just about any other! ● You cannot earn credit hours working on a holiday or while working at home; there is flexibility in scheduling for religious belief purposes (http://www.opm.gov/policy-data- oversight/pay-leave/work-schedules/fact-sheets/adjustment-of-work-schedules-for-religious-observances/) ● You can save up to 240 hours of annual leave, but anything over that is “use or lose.” Sick leave can be built up indefinitely. So, consider using credit hours for sick leave.
PJ I hope beyond hope that I need this information. This is a great resource. Thank you for posting it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 9:51:26 GMT -5
Overall synopsis, relax and enjoy. This may the first job you hold where you may be told to go home because you have worked too much. I have had this happen on more than one occasion when I am on credit overload and it is the end of a pay period.
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Post by jafo on Sept 1, 2015 10:11:30 GMT -5
I am really putting the cart before the horse, as I just self-scheduled, but I have questions about hours of work per week, minimum days at the office, etc., that I would need to figure out, assuming I make it past WD, SI and Logic, in order to decide where I would go, since my spouse also has career, I have kids who love their schools, and I would love to transfer back to my popular metro area at some point. What are the required hours per week? In my first year, could I put in four 10-hour days (sometime between 6:30 and 6) and then drive/fly home to have a long weekend with family? Or work four 10-hour days, one five hour day, and bank five hours of credit for the week, to be applied toward staying home with family on another week? If I could telework after first year, would I need to telework within 2 hours of my designated office, or just two hours' drive of any old SSA hearing office? Could I then telework 8 days a month, so, say, I was there in person for two 10-hour days each week, and then teleworking two 10-hour days each week? The more yesses to these questions, the more locations I would be able to consider. Perhaps, if the interview panel asks "Do you have any questions for us?" these items could be addressed.
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Post by mch135 on Sept 1, 2015 10:11:16 GMT -5
For those of us coming from private practice, this all seems so terribly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not used to having to punch a clock.
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Post by minny on Sept 1, 2015 10:37:22 GMT -5
For those of us coming from private practice, this all seems so terribly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not used to having to punch a clock. It took some adjustment for me when I moved into the federal sector, but my office at least is still pretty relaxed.
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Post by anotherfed on Sept 1, 2015 10:49:27 GMT -5
For those of us coming from private practice, this all seems so terribly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not used to having to punch a clock. Actually, it's not all that different -- in private practice you have to be accountable for your billable time, down to a certain increment (6 minutes or 15 minutes). I found private practice to have more of a time-clock mentality, because time was money.
The government just wants to know that you put in a full day (so you have to sign in and out). SSA generously allows us to earn credit hours (my last agency did not, so I donated a LOT of time).
The only weird part is that everything shuts down at 6 pm. You would think that there would just be a simple policy of "you can earn no more than 3 credit hours per weekday" regardless of the times worked. If you can earn up to 3 credit hours before the start of the business day at 8 am, likewise you should be able to earn up to 3 credit hours after COB. But I think that's more of a physical maintenance thing that anything else (or is it showing favoritism to early birds? Blatant discrimination against snooze users and night owls!).
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Post by judgmental on Sept 1, 2015 11:05:06 GMT -5
Yes, thanks so much!
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