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Post by gary on Sept 14, 2015 14:52:59 GMT -5
An FOAD letter is an unsuccessful ALJ candidate's participation trophy.
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Post by nj4096 on Sept 14, 2015 15:00:00 GMT -5
I am glad you said at the end how could they have time for it? I understand frustration with not knowing why you are not selected. After years of federal jobs and years of applications (some of which are still under review per us a jobs years later) it is a waste of energy to want specific feedback. Bottom line hiring authority liked somebody else better. It reminds me of times in my younger years when I sulk ed and moped wondering what I did such that a relationship did not work out. Fruitless to call that guy to ask. Bottom line he wanted something different when I'm home he had the best. Also I certainly would not want opm using resources to explain to each candidate why they were not hired. That would take forever and be a legal nightmare avoiding any sensitive feedback.
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Post by anotherfed on Sept 14, 2015 15:08:59 GMT -5
To build on gary's post above, the FOAD is your feedback. See also my post yesterday at 3:01 pm for tailored feedback.
These suggested responses can be used in any number of rejection situations, including employment, romantic relationships, termination of housecleaning services, etc. And before Gaidin starts getting any ideas, I'm slapping a copyright on all of 'em.  |
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Post by ibnlurkin on Sept 14, 2015 15:35:44 GMT -5
To build on gary's post above, the FOAD is your feedback. See also my post yesterday at 3:01 pm for tailored feedback.
These suggested responses can be used in any number of rejection situations, including employment, romantic relationships, termination of housecleaning services, etc. And before Gaidin starts getting any ideas, I'm slapping a copyright on all of 'em. Actually.. that was my next thought ... where's my FOAD ? |
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Post by gary on Sept 14, 2015 15:38:43 GMT -5
It's possible SSA will keep the certs open until they're ready to request new ones. They may want to hire another ALJ or two from the current certs.
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Post by ibnlurkin on Sept 14, 2015 15:44:13 GMT -5
I am glad you said at the end how could they have time for it? I understand frustration with not knowing why you are not selected. After years of federal jobs and years of applications (some of which are still under review per us a jobs years later) it is a waste of energy to want specific feedback. Bottom line hiring authority liked somebody else better. It reminds me of times in my younger years when I sulk ed and moped wondering what I did such that a relationship did not work out. Fruitless to call that guy to ask. Bottom line he wanted something different when I'm home he had the best. Also I certainly would not want opm using resources to explain to each candidate why they were not hired. That would take forever and be a legal nightmare avoiding any sensitive feedback. Yes .... I agree... especially in the GOV context ... it aint happening..i'm a little curious about the turning of the wheels.. but otherwise just content to see where it leaves me... . but I do recall one of my first interviews while still in college the interviewer laid out a series of reasons I wasn't going to get that job (or likely any like it) thankfully..the reasons were of a political nature with little to do with my qualifications..... didn't appreciate it it much then...but I realize now he was doing me a favor by setting me straight |
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MW2
Full Member
Posts: 49 
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Post by MW2 on Sept 14, 2015 16:31:29 GMT -5
It may be the level of frustration is made a bit worse by the knowing we have been graded by the Agency in some fashion, but they will not tell us our grade. While I have certainly applied for jobs I have not been offered, I don't think there has ever been such a grading system involved. However, saaao made a good point yesterday about why the Agency might not want to tell candidates they were "not recommended." Apparently, the Agency ccasionally makes offers to individuals who were not recommended following the Agency vetting process.
Also, while I cannot recall ever having been given feedback about why I did not get a job I applied for, I don't think I've ever been in the position where a potential employer keeps me involved in the process even if they have no interest in hiring me. That is, reaching out to me asking if I am still interested, asking me to complete and update forms, and indicating they may contact my references again. So in my view, this process is a lot different.
But this discussion has been helpful. Thanks for the insight.
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Post by cafeta on Sept 14, 2015 21:21:15 GMT -5
I've always told myself that apparently someone else's criteria lined up just right, while mine was off for some reason. Take time, reflect on what you might have done better, of course using your own insight and self reflection, as the prospective employer usually won't, and then work on those areas where you can improve. And there is always room for improvement. I was one of two finalists for a position I really wanted once, and it was clear she was hired because she was much more proficient in Spanish than me, a requirement for the post. Good for her; I can't fault her for being better positioned than me, I can only work harder to make sure the next time I am the better positioned candidate! ¡Claro que si! Ever hopeful!
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Post by ba on Sept 14, 2015 22:53:42 GMT -5
I've always told myself that apparently someone else's criteria lined up just right, while mine was off for some reason. Take time, reflect on what you might have done better, of course using your own insight and self reflection, as the prospective employer usually won't, and then work on those areas where you can improve. And there is always room for improvement. I was one of two finalists for a position I really wanted once, and it was clear she was hired because she was much more proficient in Spanish than me, a requirement for the post. Good for her; I can't fault her for being better positioned than me, I can only work harder to make sure the next time I am the better positioned candidate! ¡Claro que si! Ever hopeful! If you are fluent in Spanish, Puerto Rico needs ALJs... I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'. |
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Post by cafeta on Sept 15, 2015 3:49:39 GMT -5
I've always told myself that apparently someone else's criteria lined up just right, while mine was off for some reason. Take time, reflect on what you might have done better, of course using your own insight and self reflection, as the prospective employer usually won't, and then work on those areas where you can improve. And there is always room for improvement. I was one of two finalists for a position I really wanted once, and it was clear she was hired because she was much more proficient in Spanish than me, a requirement for the post. Good for her; I can't fault her for being better positioned than me, I can only work harder to make sure the next time I am the better positioned candidate! ¡Claro que si! Ever hopeful! If you are fluent in Spanish, Puerto Rico needs ALJs... I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.  Ok, I know I said she won because of her fluency, AND, that I said one should improve on those areas where you can, but unfortunately, I have yet to reach beyond proficiency to fluency. Capiche? (Couldn't resist that one.). That said, I noticed Puerto Rico as well, and the few applicants, and thought, sin niños, ay, sin niños, vamanos! Ah, but unfortunately, I cannot get to PR as they confiscated my passport in Nuevo Mexico!  |
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Post by redryder on Sept 15, 2015 8:08:09 GMT -5
I am beginning my day with a big slice of pie by Crow and Humble. I am speculated for many posts that ODAR is not using the rule of three in making its selections. Last night while noodling around on the computer, I pulled up the job announcement that was posted on USAjobs in 2013. Right there in the notice, it states that candidates will be selected using....
T
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Post by redryder on Sept 15, 2015 8:09:12 GMT -5
Sorry. I hit the wrong key on this new keyboard.
THE RULE OF THREE.
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Post by redsox1 on Sept 15, 2015 8:24:22 GMT -5
One item which deserves mentioning here is that unsuccessful applicants can appeal. Not at every stage but at certain points in the process. That is not the norm in most hiring processes. . I understand that no more info cones with an appeal, the fact that some have been successful indicates, to me, that there are some objective standards been applied.
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Post by Propmaster on Sept 16, 2015 17:36:57 GMT -5
It may be the level of frustration is made a bit worse by the knowing we have been graded by the Agency in some fashion, but they will not tell us our grade. While I have certainly applied for jobs I have not been offered, I don't think there has ever been such a grading system involved. However, saaao made a good point yesterday about why the Agency might not want to tell candidates they were "not recommended." Apparently, the Agency ccasionally makes offers to individuals who were not recommended following the Agency vetting process. Also, while I cannot recall ever having been given feedback about why I did not get a job I applied for, I don't think I've ever been in the position where a potential employer keeps me involved in the process even if they have no interest in hiring me. That is, reaching out to me asking if I am still interested, asking me to complete and update forms, and indicating they may contact my references again. So in my view, this process is a lot different. But this discussion has been helpful. Thanks for the insight. An excellent point. |
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 16, 2015 19:11:11 GMT -5
One item which deserves mentioning here is that unsuccessful applicants can appeal. Not at every stage but at certain points in the process. That is not the norm in most hiring processes. . I understand that no more info cones with an appeal, the fact that some have been successful indicates, to me, that there are some objective standards been applied. I think the main concern here, and in the other closed thread, though, is not knowing why one was not hired, versus how they were scored up to and including the NOR. |
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Post by jonsprag1 on Sept 16, 2015 20:21:09 GMT -5
This whole thread reminds me of when I was 18 years old, a freshman in college. I propositioned a beautiful young lady who turned me down. Foolishly, I asked her why---she told me. I've never asked why anybody rejected me since.
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Post by gary on Sept 16, 2015 20:26:32 GMT -5
This whole thread reminds me of when I was 18 years old, a freshman in college. I propositioned a beautiful young lady who turned me down. Foolishly, I asked her why---she told me. I've never asked why anybody rejected me since. I take it she didn't tell you it wasn't you, it was her. |
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Post by pumpkin on Sept 17, 2015 18:13:43 GMT -5
Same with me in terms of what feedback we were allowed to give attorneys coming through the doors interviewing for positions. Often did get emails following the interview - but mostly of the sort - thank you for the time, etc. - not specifically asking for feedback. Unfortunately for these folks emailing, my evaluation had almost always already been given to HR and these emails were not really relevant other than showing a certain expected sense of professionalism after having gotten the interview. In fact, a lot of CYA going on in terms of the interview itself in terms of what you were supposed to say and more importantly perhaps what not to say. Hope the testing went well for you Pumpkin btw. Thanks, keep! I felt pretty good about 2 of the 3 portions (but pretty lousy about one of them). Only the fickle winds of fate at OPM can tell me now if I am deemed worthy of registry. |
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Post by luckylady2 on Sept 17, 2015 19:25:18 GMT -5
If it's any consolation, Pumpkin, you've definitely been deemed worthy of the Board!
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Post by pumpkin on Sept 17, 2015 20:51:56 GMT -5
If it's any consolation, Pumpkin, you've definitely been deemed worthy of the Board! Aw, shucks, Lucky - as funky might say, "thank 'ya, thank 'ya very much!" Send some of your luck the way of my WD, would you? |
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Ok, I know I said she won because of her fluency, AND, that I said one should improve on those areas where you can, but unfortunately, I have yet to reach beyond proficiency to fluency. Capiche? (Couldn't resist that one.). That said, I noticed Puerto Rico as well, and the few applicants, and thought, sin niños, ay, sin niños, vamanos! Ah, but unfortunately, I cannot get to PR as they confiscated my passport in Nuevo Mexico! 
