|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 5, 2016 9:51:38 GMT -5
As to the robe vs. suit question, one of my state court judge friends who had a broad area of practice before becoming a judge, told me that in his experience, judges wear robes, bureaucrats wear suits. Great post, Pixie. I agree. As to suit versus robe: good point, well said. Many claimants, maybe most, have never been inside a courtroom. Their expectations are probably fostered by TV shows. Law and Order. Perry Mason. So they get in the ODAR hearing room, and the VE may be in a suit, and the HR is professionally attired, and the claimant is not sure which person is the judge. The robe is a clue. :-) Apart from that, there is honest value in the theatrical aspect of the hearing. Many claimants derive satisfaction simply from being heard by a high and impartial official. I experienced this many years ago as an administrative judge at EEOC, where the AJ can issue a bench decision not only in favor of the complainant, but also against him. Naturally, an employee who feels he has been the victim of unlawful discrimination by an employer he has trusted for many years has invested strong emotions in his claim. He is suing his boss. He fears retaliation. The boss is in the courtroom surrounded by lawyers defending his actions in these hotly contested adversarial hearings. The tension pressurizes the small hearing rooms. As I explained from the bench why I found that the agency had not violated the employee's rights, the overwrought complainant began to cry. His years of battle ended in defeat. I finished, and the complainant, bitter and angry, glared at me and stormed out of the room. As I gathered up my papers, the complainant returned to the hearing room, tears still in his eyes. "I'm very angry and disappointed," he said. Then he stuck his hand out. "But I feel your decision was very fair. Thank you." We shook hands. It was my turn for a tear. Come to think of it, when you select your robe, order an extra pocket for a handkerchief. |
|
|
|
Post by funkyodar on Jun 5, 2016 10:08:58 GMT -5
When I first got this gig I rushed out and bought a whole new wardrobe of suits. I had been out of private practice so long, all I had left was my funeral suit. I figured on wearing the suit because most of the ALJS in Tupelo did so. When I got to Middlesboro, all there wore robes.
A wonderful, soon to be retiring, ALJ there told me why he wore the robe and I have done so ever since.
He told me that in one of his first hearings in the early 90s he wore a suit. He introduced himself as the judge and conducted the hearing. When it was over and he went off the record, he heard the claimant ask his representative "Now do I get to see the Judge?"
This great ALJ who I learned so much from in an all to brief acquaintance, went on to tell me that more Americans will have their first and only experience in a real courtroom before an SSA ALJ than in any other forum. It's true, look it up. And when they have that experience, it will be after years of waiting. In that time they will have repeatedly tried to convince employees of this bureaucratic behemoth that they are disabled. Most of those people will be in suits. Now, they get to have a fair hearing by an impartial Judge.
This ALJ then told me the most important part of the hearing is making the claimant feel like he got a chance to tell his story to a Judge. And the robe, as much as anything else, gives that impression.
And, on a practical note, I wear the robe because I hate wearing ties. Coming to ODAR, one of the best aspects was I no longer had to wear them. Add in the fact that having a robe means I can cover a hearing for a sick colleague anytime without having to run home and change and it's a no brainer for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by cheesy on Jun 5, 2016 10:46:22 GMT -5
Mmmmm... Is it too late to re-expand my GAL to include NOLA? |
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 5, 2016 10:49:42 GMT -5
Mmmmm... Is it too late to re-expand my GAL to include NOLA? Okay with me. Come on over! :-) |
|
|
|
Post by minny on Jun 5, 2016 10:52:49 GMT -5
I want to thank all of the sitting judges for taking the time to contribute to this thread. If I am lucky enough to be selected, it is one I will immediately print and keep close.
Edited. Did not realize how bad my posts from my cell phone are. Yikes.
|
|
|
|
Post by philliesfan on Jun 5, 2016 11:53:30 GMT -5
Treat every one in the hearing room with respect, even attorneys you will come to dislike. If the claimants feel as if they had a full opportunity to present their case and you treat them respectfully, it may save you from an appeal and future remand.
Remember, almost all of the claimants have significant medical issues, physical and/or mental. Whether they are disabling is another issue altogether. A few months ago I received a thank you letter from a claimant for an unfavorable decision because I had given him an opportunity to present his case and issued a decision that fully explained my reasons for denying him, to his satisfaction.
|
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Jun 5, 2016 12:58:35 GMT -5
When I first got this gig I rushed out and bought a whole new wardrobe of suits. I had been out of private practice so long, all I had left was my funeral suit. I figured on wearing the suit because most of the ALJS in Tupelo did so. When I got to Middlesboro, all there wore robes. A wonderful, soon to be retiring, ALJ there told me why he wore the robe and I have done so ever since. He told me that in one of his first hearings in the early 90s he wore a suit. He introduced himself as the judge and conducted the hearing. When it was over and he went off the record, he heard the claimant ask his representative "Now do I get to see the Judge?" This great ALJ who I learned so much from in an all to brief acquaintance, went on to tell me that more Americans will have their first and only experience in a real courtroom before an SSA ALJ than in any other forum. It's true, look it up. And when they have that experience, it will be after years of waiting. In that time they will have repeatedly tried to convince employees of this bureaucratic behemoth that they are disabled. Most of those people will be in suits. Now, they get to have a fair hearing by an impartial Judge. This ALJ then told me the most important part of the hearing is making the claimant feel like he got a chance to tell his story to a Judge. And the robe, as much as anything else, gives that impression. And, on a practical note, I wear the robe because I hate wearing ties. Coming to ODAR, one of the best aspects was I no longer had to wear them. Add in the fact that having a robe means I can cover a hearing for a sick colleague anytime without having to run home and change and it's a no brainer for me. I'm pretty much going to echo everything here. To add to the fourth paragraph, in almost every case you have, you're very likely going to be the highest ranking government official the individual will come into contact with in their life. That's still a strange concept to me. Re: the fifth paragraph... the most important person in that hearing room is the person whose claim is before you. Favorable or unfavorable, we're there for that person and that specific claim at that specific time. Almost every single person that comes before you isn't there for the heck of it. They've had something horrible happen that's changed their life for the worse or they've lived a hard life. Whether they're disabled is another story, but there's no reason to belittle, embarrass, or try to intimidate that person. You can ask tough questions or get clarification of something in the record without being completely accusatory or derogatory. Also, there a thousands of ways to do the job, and most of them are correct. Judges can get the same 500 cases and disagree on 300-400 of them without being wrong. Don't get caught up in your "pay" rate or denial rate. Just be consistent in your interpretation of the law and facts, and things will work out. Finally, regardless of how long you've done the job or how familiar with this area of law you are, you're going to make mistakes. Don't dwell on them. Learn from them. For NODARians, it will be quite a while before you feel fully comfortable with the law and its application, and that is totally normal. |
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 5, 2016 13:13:58 GMT -5
All good points, hopefalj.
|
|
gino
Full Member
Posts: 36 
|
Post by gino on Jun 5, 2016 16:02:15 GMT -5
I had a client one time in a bankruptcy matter who didn't know why the trustee (in a suit, not a robe) was asking him a bunch of financial questions. I wish he hadn't said "you got a lot of nerve asking me all these questions, who the hell are you anyway"
|
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin on Jun 5, 2016 19:25:00 GMT -5
I wish your post had been available to me when I started, onepingonly - lots of good advice and background information contained within.
I also echo keepsake's advice to get to know. and keep in contact with. your classmates. You are all conquering the new law, new procedures, and sticky situations together. Share the job, share the joy. Enjoy the bus ride.
Finally, if I might add a piece of advice - if I could get a do-over, I would avoid back-to-back hearing days. You will be dropped into the empty dates left over because the other ALJs in your hearing office scheduled their hearings three months ago. The scheduler is not going to ask, "are you SURE it's a good idea to have hearings on Thursday, Friday, and Monday?" You need time to prepare for the hearings. You need to hold the hearings. You need time after the hearings to prepare the decision instructions. Do not put off the preparation of the decision instructions - with the passage of time, it will become less clear which low back pain/depression claimant was which. This leads to listening to the audio recordings of your hearings. This is not an efficient use of your time. Or, at least, it was not an efficient use of my time. I've learned my lesson on scheduling, don't repeat my mistakes. |
|
|
|
Post by judgedreamer on Jun 5, 2016 19:34:58 GMT -5
I was hired in Sept 2015. I was a claimant's rep(roughly about 10 years), and was working as a contract attorney. I ended up negotiating any outstanding fees with the firms that hired me. I had everything wrapped up before I started, but I ended up waiving some fees as well, just in light of the short time frame involved between offer and start date.
Any payments/fees earned prior to start date can still be collected, provided you do nothing to 'actively" get those fees (which I interpreted as meaning, calls to payment center, emails, etc) - - so if you happen to get a check after your start date, you should be ok.
I recently ran into a problem, where one of the firms that hired me asked my permission to sign my name to a fee petition for a case I handled months before I was hired. I promptly declined permission and expressly revoked any implied consent to sign my name to a fee petition. I then sent the same info to the other firms who had hired me in the past.
Once I started I recused myself from handling cases from firms that I worked for a consistent basis, to avoid any appearance of impropriety.
Hope this helps. Good luck PS being a claimant's rep really made the transition to this job fairly easy. My biggest challenge has been learning the computer systems and which staff handles which tasks. Love the job, and happy to part of ODAR. Good luck! |
|
|
|
Post by judgedreamer on Jun 5, 2016 19:35:53 GMT -5
Phillies fan too  Good game today....home run derby!
|
|
|
|
Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 5, 2016 21:54:42 GMT -5
In bankruptcy, trustees are not judges. They are a party ... so wouldn't wear robes.
|
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 5, 2016 22:40:47 GMT -5
I wish your post had been available to me when I started, onepingonly - lots of good advice and background information contained within. Thank you, Pumpkin. I've got a feeling you're doing just fine. And I'll second your advice to write instructions ASAP. :-) |
|
|
|
Post by monday on Jun 6, 2016 8:19:35 GMT -5
(never met a male hearing reporter at SSA...), They do exist. We have one regularly. I agree with much of the above and would add this: If you have a personal quirk of how you like things written/handled, send an e-mail to all the writers in the office. It's easier for the writers to know ahead of time about that sort of thing. |
|
|
|
Post by tinkerbell725 on Jun 6, 2016 8:54:52 GMT -5
Everyone in my office wears a robe. The robe people who come to training offered us a discount. I got 2 custom robes tailored to my size and preferences for $675. I love my robes - tapered sleeves and hooks instead of zippers. Keep in mind that you'll be wearing them over clothes and will get hot.
I'd like to echo what a number of other people have said about this hearing being the first/most important government or court interaction the claimants have ever experienced. Even if you think they're not being fully honest with you, treat them with respect. I always end every hearing by thanking them for taking the time to talk to me. Parties are always more willing to accept an adverse result (and therefore less likely to appeal) when they feel that the judge listened to them, respected them, and took them seriously.
For those of you coming from a litigation background, the hardest thing won't be learning the law, but adjusting your mindset from advocate to neutral decision maker, especially since SSA hearings aren't designed to be adversarial. When I'm explaining the hearing procedure, I tell the claimant I'm going to talk to them, not question them. I don't let the rep cross examine the VE or ME, I ask if they have any questions. There will always be some reps who are hostile to MEs or VEs - it's your hearing room, you don't have to allow that.
I strongly encourage you not just to talk to the other judges in your office, but to talk to the instructors at training. You'll get a new set of instructors every week, from offices all over the country. Take advantage of that and ask questions about how they prep, their opinion of MEs, how they do their instructions. Ultimately you'll come up with what works for you, but you'll liberally steal ideas from the other experienced judges.
Good luck and congratulations!
|
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 6, 2016 8:57:43 GMT -5
(never met a male hearing reporter at SSA...), They do exist. We have one regularly. I agree with much of the above and would add this: If you have a personal quirk of how you like things written/handled, send an e-mail to all the writers in the office. It's easier for the writers to know ahead of time about that sort of thing. Good point. ALJs in my office have "standing orders" (requests, really). One set for writers, and one set for schedulers. |
|
|
|
Post by anotherfed on Jun 6, 2016 10:17:26 GMT -5
Excellent advice above. I would add one thing: get used to sending written thanks to the people who help you do your job. My practice, when I have an especially thorough CT or SCT review of a case file, or a well-written decision, is to take the time to write a detailed thank you email to that person. And copy the HOD and direct supervisor.
With as isolating as these jobs can be (telework 3x per week, staring into multiple computer screens all the time), it is important to maintain interpersonal contact and let your co-workers know that they are appreciated and valued. And these notes are important during performance review time (and are sometimes pasted right into the form).
|
|
|
|
Post by onepingonly on Jun 6, 2016 12:15:01 GMT -5
Excellent advice above. I would add one thing: get used to sending written thanks to the people who help you do your job. My practice, when I have an especially thorough CT or SCT review of a case file, or a well-written decision, is to take the time to write a detailed thank you email to that person. And copy the HOD and direct supervisor. With as isolating as these jobs can be (telework 3x per week, staring into multiple computer screens all the time), it is important to maintain interpersonal contact and let your co-workers know that they are appreciated and valued. And these notes are important during performance review time (and are sometimes pasted right into the form). Great advice, otherfed! |
|
|
|
Post by jagvet on Jun 6, 2016 12:16:53 GMT -5
On the robe advice, I recommend tapered sleeves (rather than bell sleeves) , which make writing and typing easier, and the lighter fabrics (they get warm). Another thought to consider, particularly for men, is pocket slits, rather than actual pockets in the robe, so you can reach into your pants pockets. Also worth considering is snaps or Velcro rather than a zipper so you don't have to actually sit on your robe. Academic apparel is another very good company with employees that are always willing to help. : I had to laugh when reading this (even though I may take your advice). I had this image in my head of an open-back hospital gown with strings to hold it closed (and not very well). |
|
Good game today....home run derby!
