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Post by rhd on Dec 29, 2017 11:50:13 GMT -5
I think it's time to move on to lay and lie.
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Post by Pixie on Dec 29, 2017 14:31:16 GMT -5
I think it's time to move on to lay and lie. I'll have to lie down and think about that. Actually, I believe transitive verbs vs. intransitive verbs is waaay to much for right now. How about fewer vs. less? Anyone want to take a stab at it? I noticed a poster picked the wrong one the other day, but as it wasn't an apostrophe mistake, I didn't say anything. In typing these messages it is easy to go too fast and type the wrong word. I have done it, and, of course, I get called immediately on it. Pixie |
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Post by rhd on Dec 29, 2017 14:57:39 GMT -5
My favorite thing to hate right now is when I read "X is ten times smaller than Y." That statement has no meaning to me. X is one-tenth the size of Y. The word "smaller" is not in my multiplication tables. It is an issue related to less and fewer.
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Post by Pixie on Dec 29, 2017 15:06:50 GMT -5
I am soon going to start a thread about pet peeves in the English language. Yours will fit nicely.
But what about fewer vs. less? Surely someone wants to get brave. It is very simple, really. Come on Bayou, you can do this; it is your thread after all. Pixie
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Post by dshawn on Dec 29, 2017 15:26:47 GMT -5
Fewer is used only when you can actually count things. E.g., fewer marbles. Less is used when you cannot. E.g., less time or less motivation.
How did I do?
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Post by dshawn on Dec 29, 2017 15:30:23 GMT -5
Mine is “regards” vs. “regard.” Fingers on a chalkboard. Also, “health care” vs. “healthcare.” I don’t really care which one, but be consistent.
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Post by rhd on Dec 29, 2017 18:05:54 GMT -5
Fewer is used only when you can actually count things. E.g., fewer marbles. Less is used when you cannot. E.g., less time or less motivation. How did I do? And yet, "I am leaving in fewer than four weeks" - completely correct, technically - sounds a lot more unnecessarily fancy-pantsy than "I'm leaving in less than four weeks."
Fewer does not always sound right with the countables.
Q: How many guests? A: Less than ten. Perfectly acceptable in daily convo. Only a snob would correct the answerer.
P.S. The song title, and for good reason, was "Lay, Lady, Lay."
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Post by Pixie on Dec 29, 2017 20:21:47 GMT -5
Fewer is used only when you can actually count things. E.g., fewer marbles. Less is used when you cannot. E.g., less time or less motivation. How did I do? Very good. You did well. |
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Post by pumpkin on Dec 30, 2017 9:23:30 GMT -5
The good sisters who taught grammar the old-fashioned way (yes, I am old enough to remember diagramming sentences) instructed:
Lay, with Long A vowel sound, is for pLAce;
Lie, with Long I vowel sound, is for recLIne.
Place something on a table? Lay it there.
Recline on the sofa? Lie there.
Pixie lays down the law about the correct place for Apple Vacation Manager posts.
Draft decisions with incorrect gender pronouns cause me to lie in the recliner with an ice pack on my head.
This is not as much fun as mischief.
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Post by Pixie on Dec 30, 2017 12:27:21 GMT -5
The good sisters who taught grammar the old-fashioned way (yes, I am old enough to remember diagramming sentences) instructed: Lay, with Long A vowel sound, is for pLAce; Lie, with Long I vowel sound, is for recLIne. Place something on a table? Lay it there. Recline on the sofa? Lie there. Pixie lays down the law about the correct place for Apple Vacation Manager posts. Draft decisions with incorrect gender pronouns cause me to lie in the recliner with an ice pack on my head. This is not as much fun as mischief. By this do you mean "they" instead of "he" or "she?" Or do you mean "he" when it should have been "she?" What we need in this English language is a good gender neutral pronoun. Other less refined languages have them; why can we not have them? Pixie |
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Post by agent99 on Dec 30, 2017 13:15:40 GMT -5
Between you and me, the phrase “between you and I” makes me 😬
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Post by Pixie on Dec 30, 2017 14:58:45 GMT -5
Between you and me, the phrase “between you and I” makes me 😬 Well hello, Secret Agent. I imagine you are staying warm in your underground bunker. Interesting you should post that. That is the pet peeve of Mary Norris, the Comma Queen, a top level copy editor at the New Yorker. In fact that is the title to her book, Between You and Me. She says if there is only one thing she can teach people is the proper use of "between you and me." Thus the title of her book. I could suggest a few other titles for subsequent books! Pixie |
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Post by Teuful Hunden on Dec 30, 2017 15:43:04 GMT -5
Between you and me, the phrase “between you and I” makes me 😬 Well hello, Secret Agent. I imagine you are staying warm in your underground bunker. Interesting you should post that. That is the pet peeve of Mary Norris, the Comma Queen, a top level copy editor at the New Yorker. In fact that is the title to her book, Between You and Me. She says if there is only one thing she can teach people is the proper use of "between you and me." Thus the title of her book. I could suggest a few other titles for subsequent books! Pixie Just bought the kindle version. Between You and Me, I hope I learn something. |
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Post by agent99 on Dec 30, 2017 17:02:51 GMT -5
I like this Comma Queen Mary Norris and her priorities. I have a good friend, a former English teacher, who says “between you and I” all the time. I just can’t bring myself to say anything but I always 😬. I must order the comma queen’s book, and leave it about the bunker next time my friend drops in.
Another peeve, though more of a word choice than a grammar issue, is the hyperbolic use of the word “literally,” as in “this job is literally killing me.”
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Post by Pixie on Dec 30, 2017 17:56:18 GMT -5
I like this Comma Queen Mary Norris and her priorities. I have a good friend, a former English teacher, who says “between you and I” all the time. I just can’t bring myself to say anything but I always 😬. I must order the comma queen’s book, and leave it about the bunker next time my friend drops in. Another peeve, though more of a word choice than a grammar issue, is the hyperbolic use of the word “literally,” as in “this job is literally killing me.” Agreed. I have another thread on this page about the Comma Queen and a link to an interview she did on NPR's On Point. |
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Post by Pixie on Dec 30, 2017 18:33:05 GMT -5
I have been intending to start a pet peeves thread, but just didn't get around to it. Started the Bayou thread before I did this one, and it got carried away with grammatical pet peeves. So, I will move some of those posts over here, and leave the other thread for those of us who are so inclined to either bash or praise bayou. I have hundreds of pet peeves, but for the last number of years my top one has been the use of the word "address" as a verb for everything in the universe. Instead of using the specific word to transmit our real meaning, the shortcut is to use address. For example, yesterday I was talking to a friend who was telling me about the worn nature of the flooring in her kitchen. She said, "It has now gotten to the point that I need to [pause as she searched for the proper phrase] address the issue soon." I thought, "Wow, you can't even articulate a simple phrase such as " . . . I need to put in new flooring soon." It is as much about laziness as it is about Inarticulateness. Most of the time I can figure out what the speaker is trying to transmit from the context of the conversation, but honestly, sometimes I cannot. And as a listener or a reader, I really shouldn't have to guess at what the speaker or writer is attempting to convey. I haven't said this in a while, but specificity of speech leads to clarity of understanding. We have covered several in the other thread, but I don't think farther vs. further was mentioned. That is another for me. More will come to me as I think about it some. As I think of them, I will address them in this thread. Pixie |
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Post by bayou on Dec 30, 2017 18:45:26 GMT -5
I don't want to divert this thread from the start, so I'll say this and ask that nobody respond so I'm not responsible for hijacking the thread. Once this thread runs its course, we need a thread to discuss why we have rules, whether the rules are still relevant and whether blind adherence to the rules has a stifling effect on the growth of language. Would we even have our language if our ancestors had blindly and stubbornly adhered to an arbitrary set of rules?
My pet peeves:
1. Mute points.
2. When a sports announcer says "he has a knee" of a player with a knee injury.
3. Irregardless.
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Post by goldenretrievermom on Dec 30, 2017 22:15:53 GMT -5
I don't want to divert this thread from the start, so I'll say this and ask that nobody respond so I'm not responsible for hijacking the thread. Once this thread runs its course, we need a thread to discuss why we have rules, whether the rules are still relevant and whether blind adherence to the rules has a stifling effect on the growth of language. Would we even have our language if our ancestors had blindly and stubbornly adhered to an arbitrary set of rules? My pet peeves: 1. Mute points. 2. When a sports announcer says "he has a knee" of a player with a knee injury. 3. Irregardless.I'm with you on that one, bayou! It's below freezing here and, after a month's absence from the board, I log in to find this thread. It just warms my shriveled heart. May I add "towards"? "I seen. . . ." ? "Basically"? "In regards to"? "To be honest with you" (spoken by someone under oath)? Happy New Year to All!! GRM |
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Post by rtiresr4u on Dec 30, 2017 22:49:06 GMT -5
Why did, "Thank you so much" take over "thank you very much?"
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Post by Pixie on Dec 30, 2017 23:23:16 GMT -5
And more importantly, why did, "Thank you!" take over as the response to "Thank you?" The response to "Thank you for being here," really should be, "You are welcome." Or, if it is a mutually beneficial appearance, the response could be, "You are certainly welcome; thank you for having me." Just a pet peeve I hear multiple times daily on NPR. Pixie
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