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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 8:26:31 GMT -5
So things are not looking good for SSA's hiring of ALJs through the foreseeable year(s).
Interestingly a murder may provide alternative career opportunities.
Say what?
Follow along here for a 100 plus years.
Back in the 1860's there were once Five Civilized Indian Tribes whose Nations covered more than one-half of current Oklahoma. Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole.
Then someone had an idea to make Oklahoma a State. As result Congress stripped the tribes of their territories. Some of this stripping of rights and land taking included intentional targeting of extremely wealthy tribal members by poisoning. Martin Scorcese is planning to make a movie with Leonardo DiCaprio based on same per the book Killers of the Flower Moon.
But I digress.
Oklahoma became a state in 1907.
In the 1990's Pat Murphy a Creek murdered another Creek and was put on trial by the State and sentenced to death by the State.
Murphy, all the while pled that same was not possible as he was Indian who murdered another Indian inside the sovereign territory of an Indian nation and Oklahoma had no jurisdiction over such sovereign countries. Oklahoma said no, remember we took away those lands way back when to become a state. So this is Oklahoma and we have jurisdiction.
Not so fast has now said the 10th Circuit.
Looking back clear into the 1800's the 10th CCA found that the Congress never properly or explicitly abolished the tribal nations territories as required. They literally just took same by whatever means possible.
As result the 10th CCA ruled these are still and today remain sovereign trial nation's lands and the State of Oklahoma has no jurisdiction over such foreign lands. Only the federal government does and then only with permission of the Indian nations.
In effect the 10th CCA ruling says that roughly half of the State of Oklahoma including the City of Tulsa is sovereign territory of the Five Civilized Tribes. Such ruling also directly impacts and effects other Indian Nations around the US. The 10th CCA has already declined the State's request for review.
One can now clearly see the impact such a ruling has on the state and other similar states re; collection of taxes, law enforcement, mineral gas and oil rights, trespass, etc.
46 similar lawsuits on behalf Indian have now already been filed.
So now, opportunity.
Tribal Nations are sovereign territories with immense wealth and increasing power inside the US. The worlds largest Casino is owned by the Chickasaw nation on the Texas and Oklahoma border inside Oklahoma and takes in billions of dollars each year.
The Tribes have their own laws and own Court systems. Those areas of law and jurisprudence are expanding rapidly. If you are now looking for opportunity other than SSA, start looking at Indian Tribal Law and Courts. The door is opening wide for opportunity in the legal and judicial fields there.
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Post by judgymcjudgypants on Mar 16, 2018 9:09:04 GMT -5
Citation, please?
J
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 16, 2018 9:28:14 GMT -5
Yeah... but you have to live in Oklahoma.  And yes, that casino is insane. I wonder if the Choctaw's (Choctaws'?) casino, appropriately called Choctaw Casino, will ever catch up. I remember back when it was just a simple bingo hall a few miles past the smoke shop. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 10:17:43 GMT -5
Royal v. Murphy 17-1107 10th cca
Now on petition for writ of certiorari |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 10:35:04 GMT -5
Yeah... but you have to live in Oklahoma. And yes, that casino is insane. I wonder if the Choctaw's (Choctaws'?) casino, appropriately called Choctaw Casino, will ever catch up. I remember back when it was just a simple bingo hall a few miles past the smoke shop. I used to drive through 5 different nations one way on commute to work, inside Oklahoma. They are marked when you enter and leave.
Many people do not really understand that the Indian Nations are really, actually sovereign nations within the USA. That means they have their own police, schools, laws, courts etc.
How does that matter to Joe Blow America?
Easy example: as hundreds of thousands of Americans do annually, they go to, stay and gamble at the WinStar Casino on the OK/TX border. Huge place at over 600,000 feet of gambling areas.
This is Chickasaw Nation.
If while gambling or staying at one of the hotels there, your wallet is stolen or you trip and are injured, you don't file you claim in state court.
Nor federal court.
You must physically find the proper Chickasaw Nation Court and go through their laws, rules and procedures and stand before their Judges or Councils for any relief. It is exactly the same as if you were in any foreign country; you go through their legal system for any relief.
As noted in Briefs before SCOTUS if this decision is allowed to stand essentially 40% of Oklahoma and the City of Tulsa and approximately 950,000 people living in those areas immediately fall under Indian Nation and Federal Jurisprudence for all rights and purposes..
Very good movie starring Jeremy Renner that came out this past year, vividly showing the differences between US and Indian jurisdiction for crimes is Wind River.
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Post by christina on Mar 16, 2018 10:41:47 GMT -5
This is fascinating! Far more legally interesting than writing alj decisions, no disrespect meant
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Post by jimmyjiggles on Mar 16, 2018 11:03:54 GMT -5
IME most tribes apply native preference in hiring, although I have known many non-natives attys work either directly for the tribe or a law firm exclusively hired by the tribe.
As Papajudge suggests it’s a whole different world legally. Many non-natives working at casinos or tribal govnt have learned the hard way that the tribe did not have any workers comp or similar employment laws.
Can’t imagine the Supremes will let the 10th circuit decision stand, simply for pragmatic reasons. One to watch for sure though. Thanks for info Papajudge!
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Post by christina on Mar 16, 2018 11:08:41 GMT -5
IME most tribes apply native preference in hiring, although I have known many non-natives attys work either directly for the tribe or a law firm exclusively hired by the tribe. As Papajudge suggests it’s a whole different world legally. Many non-natives working at casinos or tribal govnt have learned the hard way that the tribe did not have any workers comp or similar employment laws. Can’t imagine the Supremes will let the 10th circuit decision stand, simply for pragmatic reasons. One to watch for sure though. Thanks for info Papajudge! ha, i was not planning to go this route. Actually, i have a friend who either works or worked in this area of law and he is Native American. This practice area turned into a wonderful niche area for him. But even though I won't be doing this, it sounds very interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 11:22:46 GMT -5
Yeah... but you have to live in Oklahoma. And yes, that casino is insane. I wonder if the Choctaw's (Choctaws'?) casino, appropriately called Choctaw Casino, will ever catch up. I remember back when it was just a simple bingo hall a few miles past the smoke shop. I used to drive through 5 different nations one way on commute to work, inside Oklahoma. They are marked when you enter and leave.
Many people do not really understand that the Indian Nations are really, actually sovereign nations within the USA. That means they have their own police, schools, laws, courts etc.
How does that matter to Joe Blow America?
Easy example: as hundreds of thousands of Americans do annually, they go to, stay and gamble at the WinStar Casino on the OK/TX border. Huge place at over 600,000 feet of gambling areas.
This is Chickasaw Nation.
If while gambling or staying at one of the hotels there, your wallet is stolen or you trip and are injured, you don't file you claim in state court.
Nor federal court.
You must physically find the proper Chickasaw Nation Court and go through their laws, rules and procedures and stand before their Judges or Councils for any relief. It is exactly the same as if you were in any foreign country; you go through their legal system for any relief.
As noted in Briefs before SCOTUS if this decision is allowed to stand essentially 40% of Oklahoma and the City of Tulsa and approximately 950,000 people living in those areas immediately fall under Indian Nation and Federal Jurisprudence for all rights and purposes..
Very good movie starring Jeremy Renner that came out this past year, vividly showing the differences between US and Indian jurisdiction for crimes is Wind River.
Yeah, I can see a huge, huge, immigration issue on this horizon. All of the folks who thought they were born in America; only to find out they are an Indian. So then the next logical step is refund of all of the wrongfully withheld Federal and State taxes for all of those people, for all of those years... This could be a better watch than Lucia! |
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Post by maquereau on Mar 16, 2018 13:21:42 GMT -5
The book was pretty decent. I'll probably be disappointed in the movie.
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Post by judgymcjudgypants on Mar 16, 2018 14:07:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the cite!
J
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Post by Pixie on Mar 16, 2018 17:04:12 GMT -5
Didn't Don Williams have something to say about Tulsa?
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Post by cruxmatter on Mar 16, 2018 18:19:39 GMT -5
Yes, and later Eric Clapton said the same things.
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Post by christina on Mar 16, 2018 18:55:10 GMT -5
I hear a song!
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Post by Pixie on Mar 16, 2018 19:00:27 GMT -5
Yes, and later Eric Clapton said the same things. You are so right. I wondered if anyone would realize Eric also did it. |
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Post by Pixie on Mar 16, 2018 19:07:31 GMT -5
I've been using the search term "tribal judge" in my weekly visit to indeed.com for a while now. As noted above, most tribes (understandably) prefer to hire tribe members. The positions are not always full time, the pay is low, and the job location is typically very, very remote. That said, if Tulsa all of a sudden becomes a hotbed of tribal judge hiring, sign me up. Fun fact: Tulsa has the second largest number of Art Deco buildings in the US.Which city is number one—Miami Beach? You are still on my DNR List. I shouldn't even be talking to you, and here I have responded to two of your comments. Pixie |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 10:47:51 GMT -5
The impact of Murphy is starting to spread here, especially if not heard or overturned by SCOTUS.
Are you interested in criminal law? If allowed to stand, estimates are that at least 5000 criminal cases tried by the State involving Indians will be in upheaval/thrown out/ transferred to BIA...who knows.
Are you interested in energy law? These areas are prime natural gas, uranium, oil and wind power locales involving billions of dollars, thousands of sites, thousands of miles of pipelines, right-of-ways, mineral rights, royalties, and taxes that may have to be handed over to the ruling Indian Nations for renegotiations and ownership.
Are you interested in water law and international shipping law? The NE and SE parts of the state are prime water holdings for the rest of the states and notably the Port of Catoosa which is smack dab in the middle of all this. Surprisingly this Port is a major shipping point for transoceanic cargo around the world. Yes, inside Oklahoma there is a large commercial barge shipping route that connects to the Missippippi and moves several millions of tons of cargo annually. Indian Tribes are already moving here in local news in inquiry about handing over waterways and water rights to the Indian Nations.
Interesting times.
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Post by christina on Mar 18, 2018 12:27:14 GMT -5
so, it looks like Oklahoma is the place to be?   |
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Post by christina on Mar 18, 2018 12:31:24 GMT -5
Yes, and later Eric Clapton said the same things. You are so right. I wondered if anyone would realize Eric also did it. Two versions of Tulsa time, one from Mr. Williams, and the other by Slowhand have been duly added to the music thread |
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Post by gary on Mar 18, 2018 12:31:34 GMT -5
so, it looks like Oklahoma is the place to be? No, no, no! |
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