fed up with ODAR BS

[odarhosa]

Hey all, new here. Been reading your posts and lurking. Heard about this site from another HOSA. I don't see many of us out here. But, hopeful that will change. My friend wants us to be more vocal about our issues and I could not agree more. We are gonna fight for ourselves since no one else is doing it. The union is crappy and is busy fighting for idiots with their greivances, don't have time for us hard working people that keep the offices running.

We've been wanting to get paid like other people in the technology field in the goverment sector and it has not happened. I guess maybe one by one, we will unite. I am not sure how we can stress to the agency how valuable we are and what we do for everyone on a daily basis.This has been in the making for years and they finally have us at wits end. They still think we are just pushing paper. Hmm, those were the good old days! Life for us (me) was much easier. Your suggestions about how we might accomplish our goal would be great. Some have talked about maybe handling our own workload before helping anyone else with their problem. Or, just finishing what we were doing before coming to help anyone else.That might be kinda drastic and i don't know how if I would want to do that. But, I guess some would take notice. Their is nothing in my job description that talks about how fast i have to respond to a call for help. Of course, actions like that won't get anyone any awards but hey, they don't amount to that much anyway.

[odarhosa]

Wow, I decided to check back and see if any Judges, attorneys or writers had any ideas. This post was read 106 times and not one response. Guess we are not really welcome here or maybe you are just absorbed with scores, ratings ,rankings and transfers. It would have been nice to get some good feedback, ideas, words of sympathy or whatever.I am sure you are not against us but obviously not for us either. So be it. We supply many of you with knowledge and answers that you would otherwise have to find and read yourselves.Let alone direction on basic windows procedures. This saves all of you lots of time. Maybe we have been tooooooo helpful and are now taken for granted not just by top level mgmt but by office staff. Thanks for giving me the answer I needed. I may or may not post back but, my perspective is in place.

[nonamouse]

I feel your pain in dealing with the agency, but I for one cannot think of any good advice. We are not all absorbed with ratings and scores, but we probably find them a bit more interesting at this juncture than the HOSA issues. I doubt that any of us has ever been a HOSA or ever will be one. Most of the people have probably held their tongues rather than give you negative feedback.

I believe that some people in the HOSA position are well-qualified and underpaid. I feel that many others are not competent to handle the increased duties. I personally wish that the positions had not been filled by internal promotions of people with no computer savvy.

The HOSA situation reminds me of certain "paralegals" who cannot write a decent decision or keep up with productivity while complaining that they cannot become GS-13s as writers. It undermines the bargaining position and respect for all HOSAs when you have some really incompetent people merely filling the FTEs.

When I watch my HOSA get a manual out and run a finger through each step (while reading aloud) no matter how basic the issue, it does not instill confidence. We have had minor glitches that clearly have a patch available. They have not been remedied in our office until the HOSA from another office fills in. It takes our HOSA a riduculous amount of time to respond to requests for assistance because there seems to be no prioritization regarding things that actually stop productivity unless it shuts down the entire office. I started out with a scientific major in undergrad, so I have enough computer experience to know when I'm watching someone completely over their head with the technology.

There is a general lack of knowledge with our HOSA about our commercial software such as Word and our internal programs such as DGS that are needed for daily operations. We have attorneys in my office with IT backgrounds who could do the job better than our HOSA, so I would have have to say that in some offices we are fairly fed up with our HOSA and not feeling particularly open to hearing their complaints.

[judicature]

Don't be too hard on us odarhosa, some of the readers here are outsiders to ODAR trying to get in as ALJs. It is hard for us to have any suggestions.

I will say, however, that ALJs cannot succeed without the united effort of everyone in the office, HOSA included. It seems to me that everyone needs to work together, and the happier and more recognized each team member is, the better the quality and output of the ODAR office.

[odarhosa]

nonamouse said:

I feel your pain in dealing with the agency, but I for one cannot think of any good advice. We are not all absorbed with ratings and scores, but we probably find them a bit more interesting at this juncture than the HOSA issues. I doubt that any of us has ever been a HOSA or ever will be one. Most of the people have probably held their tongues rather than give you negative feedback.

I believe that some people in the HOSA position are well-qualified and underpaid. I feel that many others are not competent to handle the increased duties. I personally wish that the positions had not been filled by internal promotions of people with no computer savvy.

The HOSA situation reminds me of certain "paralegals" who cannot write a decent decision or keep up with productivity while complaining that they cannot become GS-13s as writers. It undermines the bargaining position and respect for all HOSAs when you have some really incompetent people merely filling the FTEs.

When I watch my HOSA get a manual out and run a finger through each step (while reading aloud) no matter how basic the issue, it does not instill confidence. We have had minor glitches that clearly have a patch available. They have not been remedied in our office until the HOSA from another office fills in. It takes our HOSA a riduculous amount of time to respond to requests for assistance because there seems to be no prioritization regarding things that actually stop productivity unless it shuts down the entire office. I started out with a scientific major in undergrad, so I have enough computer experience to know when I'm watching someone completely over their head with the technology.

There is a general lack of knowledge with our HOSA about our commercial software such as Word and our internal programs such as DGS that are needed for daily operations. We have attorneys in my office with IT backgrounds who could do the job better than our HOSA, so I would have have to say that in some offices we are fairly fed up with our HOSA and not feeling particularly open to hearing their complaints.

Yes, what you are saying is true about some HOSAs being over their head. However, in being able to speak with lots of them, I have found that most are capable and if unsure about something, another HOSA can usually instruct them. We have some many issues to deal with and constantly changing technology and not every fix is something done that often, IE: easy to forget. As far as being proficient in word, that is a specialty in and of itself. If you are hired to be a decision writer, you need to be proficient, we don't. We just need the smarts to be able to research and find the answer if you can't.If you want a HOSA to be proficient at everything, they need constant training and a good payscale . And, we get marginal instructions and no training. We have to spend time teaching people basic windows concepts like how to create a shortcut, how to cut and paste. We also do the research that gives you many answers rather than just directing you to web pages and telling you to read. But, it is generally the HOSA that is training them. Some don't even know how power up a laptop. As far as DGS goes, do you know some HOSA were not invited into the original FIT training. But, there is a FIT website for you.

Anyway, there is a large swing in knowledge base in the HOSA ranks.( Some are Microsoft trained, others are in night school for computer technology and others have come up through the ranks.) This was mitigated by letting the HOSAs use a common mailbox to communicate and we did. That is how I met the HOSA I referred to earlier. Anyway, I.T. MGMT put a stop to us using that mailbox. The agency has decided to take some HOSAs and make them the super hosa grade 11, IE: the tech support for the HOSA. Problem is, they know just what the HOSAs know and everyone has varying amounts of knowledge so frequently, they may not be able to help us as they must shop around for the answer. Then, we have to wait for them to get back to us. But, they say they are busy doing the work of the RSA grade 12's and so the answers to us are slow. Hmmm..someone did not plan this out well. So, the underground communication from HOSA to HOSA must go on but everyone is afraid of getting into trouble trying to get you guys the answers you need. Remember, what we learn, we learn on our own or another HOSA.There is only one basic training and it is very basic. There are many judges and many writers to help each other. There is only 1 of us in any office, regardless of office staffing levels.Some of us may be more helpful than others.

As far as telling me that some of your Lawyesr are good in I.T. ands could probably do our jobs, can they network systems? Do they know the DOS commands used to do various tasks for network communications? Can they add a system to the network giving it domain rights? Can they add users and assign permissions? Hmm, sounds like they would be in the same boat we are in, you must continually learn new things.

Time will tell what happens to us with fair pay and grade. We do need your support just as you need ours. The long one way street may soon come to a dead end. Then and only then will what we do be truly recognized.

[deltajudge]

I can only speak for the office I worked in for 11 years before I retired. The HOSA we had was the backbone of that office, the Knoxville office. She was a little wizard. I'm sure most field offices had similiar HOSAs and they were all treated like dirt. They should have been upgraded long ago, but that is and was OHA/ODAR managment, bunch of incompetents. Our HOSA was elevated to writer status which was a great loss to the effeciency of the office, but a well deserved promotion for her.

[chris]

odarhosa said:

Wow, I decided to check back and see if any Judges, attorneys or writers had any ideas. This post was read 106 times and not one response. Guess we are not really welcome here or maybe you are just absorbed with scores, ratings ,rankings and transfers. It would have been nice to get some good feedback, ideas, words of sympathy or whatever.I am sure you are not against us but obviously not for us either. So be it. We supply many of you with knowledge and answers that you would otherwise have to find and read yourselves.Let alone direction on basic windows procedures. This saves all of you lots of time. Maybe we have been tooooooo helpful and are now taken for granted not just by top level mgmt but by office staff. Thanks for giving me the answer I needed. I may or may not post back but, my perspective is in place.

I have read your post twice, but I have never worked for ODAR. Many of us have never worked for ODAR.

Chris

[counselor95]

I think you have to understand that attorney-advisors in ODAR start at GS9, go to GS11, then GS12, even though we have 19 years of school, three of those to get a doctorate level degree. And those three years of law school were grueling. We won't even discuss the weeks/months spent studying for the Bar examination(s). And we are required to maintain active license status, which usually means two days each year at seminars, on our own nickel. By comparison, it is my understanding HOSAs don't have any formal schooling requirements.

Everyone would like more money, but I don't see how the HOSA position equates to the AA, or how it merits equivalent pay. It seems by your reasoning, the person who generates employee paychecks should be paid more than anyone else in the office. Ifyou disagree, you need to show your worth to the office, and you won't do that by refusing to timely fix problems for the rest of your fellow employees.

[techgeek]

counselor95 said:

I think you have to understand that attorney-advisors in ODAR start at GS9, go to GS11, then GS12, even though we have 19 years of school, three of those to get a doctorate level degree. And those three years of law school were grueling. We won't even discuss the weeks/months spent studying for the Bar examination(s). And we are required to maintain active license status, which usually means two days each year at seminars, on our own nickel. By comparison, it is my understanding HOSAs don't have any formal schooling requirements.



Everyone would like more money, but I don't see how the HOSA position equates to the AA, or how it merits equivalent pay. It seems by your reasoning, the person who generates employee paychecks should be paid more than anyone else in the office. Ifyou disagree, you need to show your worth to the office, and you won't do that by refusing to timely fix problems for the rest of your fellow employees.

If you take the time to look at the next HOSA job listing, you will be surprised to see what they want us to know.So much for the no formal schooling requirements. They don't ask for an I.T degree or certifications but,you had better be pretty computer literate in this job.I am also schooled and have Microsoft certifications as in plural. My job is announced at a 5, 6, 7, 8 and finally a 9. The techs at all the other SSA positions are a minimum of grade 11/12. I know of a HOSA that left SSA for another Federal agency and was taken at a GS11 to start.And I know some more that are actively looking and applying to other agencies. If you want quality, you need to have pay parity throughout SSA as well as at least match other Federal Agencies. Years of schooling are one thing. But , like ODARHOSA wrote, there is only one of us in the office while there may be 10 or more of you.If you leave, there are 10 more doing your job. You try supporting 40, 50, 60, 70 people and over 100 computers/laptops.Multi tasking is not something you may have to do. You have one workload and you do it, one case at a time and very likely from the comfort of your own home . We answer to region, HQ, mgmt and all of you juggling our tasks. You may not respect us or our jobs because you have not been in our shoes. So much of what we do is intuitive, OJT and also based on past experience and our individual levels of training. The products we support are constantly changing and we must learn with them. No stagnation for us. You practice one type of law. You don't need to know real estate law, divorce law, corporate law. etc. And yes, I know regulations change, I send out all the e-mails that come into the office mailbox. We must learn something about everything to keep things going and as I stated before, Microsoft product is not the only thing that changes. In fzct, our constant "program improvements" cause us lots of grief.

Anyway, from the sound of "sound" of you post, I will not be winning any points with you. But trust me, if we were not doing what it is we do, your days at the office would be lots worse.

[techgeek]

ODARHOSA, I am glad to see you out here. Please speak to other HOSAS and spread the word. This must go nationwide.We are doing lots more than our PD states and not getting pay parity. Time to play by the rules. That may mean some employees will need remedial computer classes at their local high schools.

For those of you that support us I thank you. Please let your regional and HQ friends know how we feel. At some point, maybe someone will listen. Our classification is not fair to us for what we do. It is time for us to be in the I.T Series. We are not clerks. We are Techs that do some clerical work and who doesn't. I am sure the 12s and 13s at regional office push paper all day long. They may be I.T people but what I.T work do they perform? Paper pushing, the same thing that is being used against us. ARGH! By the book for me. New words learned, not in my job description! Not my job. Ask your supervisor. Ahhh, life is going to be so much easier.

[kingfisher]

To all HOSAs reading this, I want to say that many of us really do appreciate what you are doing even if much of it is way over our heads technically.

Your value to the entire ODAR operation is made obvious even to those oblivious to their surroundings when we have a technical problem preventing us from conducting VTC hearings on eDib cases. If the video conferencing equipment fails or the electronic files become inaccessible, we call for you. If the network connectivity goes down, we cannot work and we call for you.

It really amazes me to see an agency like SSA introducing new systems to "fight the backlog" like VTC and eDib that are totally dependent on IT Staff, but not seeing to it that the critical Staff are properly trained and fairly compensated. So, take it from one ALJ when I say we could not get anything done at the office without our HOSAs.

How unfortunate to see agency management being so short sighted. But, the day we start expecting logic from a government agency is the day we will be disappointed.

---

Kingfisher

[morgullord]

My advice is: Walk. Nothing will get ODAR's attention like suddenly finding that it has a shortage of HOSAs. Start applying for jobs elsewhere; when management comes to you after being contacted a few times by prospective employers, the subject will be raised during regional conference calls and during CALJ conference calls. I am an ODAR senior attorney and a former regional attorney and I know if you are straight with management about why you are attempting to get a job elsewhere, it will end up on someone's action list eventually. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.

[techgeek]

kingfisher said:

To all HOSAs reading this, I want to say that many of us really do appreciate what you are doing even if much of it is way over our heads technically.

Your value to the entire ODAR operation is made obvious even to those oblivious to their surroundings when we have a technical problem preventing us from conducting VTC hearings on eDib cases. If the video conferencing equipment fails or the electronic files become inaccessible, we call for you. If the network connectivity goes down, we cannot work and we call for you.

It really amazes me to see an agency like SSA introducing new systems to "fight the backlog" like VTC and eDib that are totally dependent on IT Staff, but not seeing to it that the critical Staff are properly trained and fairly compensated. So, take it from one ALJ when I say we could not get anything done at the office without our HOSAs.

How unfortunate to see agency management being so short sighted. But, the day we start expecting logic from a government agency is the day we will be disappointed.

---

Kingfisher

Thank you Kingfisher and others for the mostly positive results. Our job PD does not cover everything we do. The classification act of 1949 guarantees equal pay for substantially equal work. I don't see this happening at ODAR at the moment for the HOSAs. Region/HQ would rather turn a blind eye and say, it isn't in your job description so why are you doing it?? And , our classification 0335 is from the 1980's. I would ask the judges to suppport a push to get the HOSA the recognition we deserve. It may have been tried before but, we were not doing as much technical work then as we are now. And, it will only grow with more video hearing rooms in the planning stages as well as Voice over IP internet telephone systems. We soon will be getting Office 2007 and Windows Vista. You will be needing us more than ever and we want to be there to help. We have gone out of the box for to long without the proper compensation except for an award here and there. The grade 11 Vs the grade 9 is about 10,000.00 per year difference so the awards don't add up to make up much of the financial difference. And, we are doing grade 11 work now every day. Now some of you might say your HOSA is not up to par. In fact, I think only one person responded with a comment like that. I have spoken with one or two that may not seem as knowledgeable as others. The answer, let the new I.T Specialists that are supposed to travel 40% of the time(but have not because there is no travel money) go and train the HOSAs. That would help the I.T. Specialist keep their skill level up and would benefit your local HOSA and your staff. We ask for you to speak with the Hocalj,the rcalj and HQ and local office MGMT. It needs to be brought up during conference calls between mgmt and region and Judges. if anyone can make this happen, I believe you can. Please help us. Most of us work very hard, go outside the box, have helped to make people with little computer skills much more knowledgeable and at the very least, they can now do their jobs using eview, laptops , burning CD's. etc.

Please please please help us. We want to keep helping and go outside the box. But, how long can that last without the proper recognition and pay? Odar has been a one way street and we are nearing the dead end.

Thank you for reading my post and in advance, for your help.

[captjack]

ODAR HOSA - if you have Microsoft Certifications - than why are you with ODAR or government. My spouse works for Microsoft as a computer programmer and isn't certified at all and makes way more than any ODAR HOSA - if you are truly certified and as good as you state - than why are you remaining with an agency that pays you nothing when you could start entry level making double at a minimum out in the private sector. Me thinks your common sense must be lacking - or you would have walked a long, long time ago. I have been with OHA/ODAR for awhile and SSA is notorious for being unreasonable, not logical and irrational in regards to the value of its employees. I stay because I could make more than what I make in the private sector but not without working 60-70 hours a week and compromising the time I spend with my family - I place a high value on that time especially when we have young children and I stay. But in the computer/tech field, I know from my spouse that you can make a lot more probably doing a lot less in the private sector.

So, I say Walk too!

[nonamouse]

odarhosa said:

As far as telling me that some of your Lawyesr are good in I.T. ands could probably do our jobs, can they network systems? Do they know the DOS commands used to do various tasks for network communications? Can they add a system to the network giving it domain rights? Can they add users and assign permissions? Hmm, sounds like they would be in the same boat we are in, you must continually learn new things.

Time will tell what happens to us with fair pay and grade. We do need your support just as you need ours. The long one way street may soon come to a dead end. Then and only then will what we do be truly recognized.

Actually we have one attorney could easily do the HOSA job better than our HOSA. He did all of the things that you mention our HOSA should be doing in a prior position. We have another attorney who provided technical training and support on the software side of things prior to coming to ODAR, so please don't think that I'm just slamming HOSAs in general or talking out of the side of my mouth.

The fact is that the lack of skills with some of the people in the HOSA position is hurting the rest of you. If I had someone half-way competent to support in my office I would be happy to advocate on their behalf, but the agency underappreciates all of its employees, not merely the HOSAs. We are making a trade in staying with this agency by getting flexiplace and a reasonable work schedule instead of better benefits and pay elsewhere.

I also have a friend who works at Microsoft. She loves her job and the pay and benefits are great. If you have the opportunity to make the leap, I say go for it.

[odarhosa]

Captjack,

I stay for the same reason that you have picked government service. Not everyone wants to work 60-70 hrs per week and or be on call 24/7. Also,very few people start out entry level in I.T. making twice what the hosa salary is. I stated I was good at my job, but, did not state anything about programming. Programmers generally are paid higher than network engineers know as MCSE or network administrator also known as MCSA. (if they are certified)

And, to nonamouse, do you think all attorneys are created equal. How about writers? I'll bet my pants when out in public that you are going to say no. So, if your original theory that every hosa should suffer due to some not being as helpful or knowledgeable as (you claim yours to be) holds true, then I guess you would also agree that the attorneys and writers maybe should be paid less cause some of them are not doing their jobs as well as others and the agency is getting remands.

What has been stated and will be again is we want pay parity with other tech popsitions in the agency as we are doing some of everything they do. I am sure there are techs in the TSC or that work for the area directors offices nationwide that not all wonderful at what they do. But, they are all paid equally and are in an I.T Classification. The HOSA position is basically classified as a clerk with a series written by OPM in 1980. Does that sound very fair to you? The world has changed drastically and many HOSas that were not computer literate back then have stepped up to the plate. Others have entered Gov't service after leaving the private sector. We are not asking for anything we don't deserve. Equal pay for equal work.

[odarhosa2]

I am a HOSA. I've been one since 1989, which is nearly as long as the position has been in existence. I've seen the position radically change in that time, from a clerical position with a few simple computer-related skills required to one that is complex and requires not only varied skills on a wide range of software and hardware, but with procedures, documentation, training, customer service (in and outside of the office), liasoning between management and support staff, management and vendors, not to mention ability to adapt to change on a moment's notice. Four years ago the Agency updated our PD. It's already out-of-date. As far as the series our PD is classified under, that's a joke - it bears no resemblence to the tasks we perform. It's an outdated, antiquated series that should be done away with, and our PD should be put under the SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATOR section of the GS2200 IT Specialist series (check it out some time - there _is_ a section of the series for just what the HOSA PD does...) I agree some HOSAs aren't as experienced and/or trained for the position as others. Those of us who are, aren't afraid of having to re-apply for our jobs if they reclassified us as they should. Sooner or later, they will have to address this. It may be done through the HOSA position quietly dying/retiring off the grid, then pulling in another position to fill in the gaps, but it'll happen. Those of us who have been here the whole time feel it's HIGHLY unfair to us, however. Career ladder? What ladder? HOSAs face a brick wall.

[notherhosa]

Yup, the position has evolved. In larger offices, it has become a very demanding position and much on the job learning(the latter is at every office and also depends how how good your regional staff is. All RSA's are not created equal.). The instructions we receive from region or forwarded by I.T. Specialists are usually untried and don't work as performed. The ODAR websites are barely updated with information for us so we are mostly behind the 8 ball. Many on our staff have marginal basic Windows computer skills(not just the older judges and staff) and some don't even know how to create a folder, or search for a file in a certain folder. Our time is spent showing folks the same thing over and over cause they write their notes on a little piece of paper and lose it. This is not being said in a snide way. We are wanting to help. It is just that we have become so helpful that our co-workers would rather call us than trying to figure anything out themselves while our own workload is constantly increasing.The CT, SCT writer and judge positions have gained staff in lots of offices thus cutting down their individual workloads but nothing has been cut down for us at the HOSA level. I find that people that are at ODAR longer than me call me for the same thing over and over. By now, they should have a clue. I think if we do not get the upgrade that we deserve,we will have to think about following our PD as another hosa suggested. We are the go to guy or gal for mgmt anytime anything has to be done. We barely have the time to do our jobs and region keeps coming up with programs that don't help us use our time efficiently, like the upload to fecs utility that only allows us to upload one remote site hearing at a time. Truly a waste of time. So is patching the darn flexiplace laptops and the recent waste of time putting on the fit for flexiplace that will barely be used. Perhaps we should be less helpful and force people to start thinking and doing their own work.
Just my 2 cents.
Whatever the rest of the HOSAs decide to do, I am in.

[techgeek]

I agree notherhosa. I guess our worth will be noticed if we are forced to work as per our PD. The further outside the box we go, the more we are pushed. And, while it may be appreciated locally, I don't know that we really are apprecited at all. We keep getting these wonderful e-mails from the commish and ocalj. Many of us were surprised that we did not get any recognition for the extra work we performed setting up edib equipment and hearing rooms, overseeing contractor work etc. I kind of thought all HOSAs deserved a nod and a well done. But, that is just me thinking "out loud." I only count here and then, maybe not even here. I hope that some of our friends out here are actually speaking to office staff and mgmt and passing our feelings around. I think office mgmt will tell us they believe in evrything we are stating on this forum but i;ll bet not a word is peeped about us during mgmt conference calls. The only way that will happen is if we do what our PD says and nothing more. If it ain't in black and white, it don't exist!

[notherhosa]

peejay said:

Back in the day, all PDs said "and other duties as assigned." Is that still the case? If so, good luck in trying not to do extra work.

No, the PD does not say that anymore. Some may say it is "implied." If it isn't in black and white, they can say whatever they want but I think it will be a situation that leads to many grievances being filed. And, if we are overworked and just can't multitask as well due to being mentally stressed out, oh well.

Let's hope that all this garbage is avoided. We are doing the job as described in many posts and we hope the powers that be will agree. No one wants disharmony or a prolonged battle and hard feelings although sometimes, that is the only way to get wrongs righted. Just think, an office with 20 people has 1 HOSA. An office with 90 people has 1 hosa. Doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out they really don't care how much they dump on us. We try to get it done because not only have most of us become I.T Professionals, we have learned the fine art of organization and multi tasking, a good management trait.

If multiple desk audits are needed, we will have to request them. If that doesn't work, we will have other avenues to consider be it publicity about mis treatment, violation of the clasification act of 1949, how the gov't uses classifications from the 1980s so as not to have to pay todays salarys, how our judges have to base decisions on antiquated tables. And, also, congress. We are the office Congressional liason and have made many friends in those offices. We can call apon our friends for advise and help. Some of us may already have pried this avenue. While this has not been a very employee friendly administration, public outcry and views about loss of rights and privacy are big public concerns. Maybe AFGE will get behind us and help us educate the public and congress. Of course, AFGE could already be in the governments pocket what with the crappy contract they negotiated for us FEDS.

Again, if the office doesn't need us, disolve our positions and place us elsewhere so we can do one thing at a time. I'll be happy to schedule hearings one file at a time or pull cases. I can concentrate on one or two tasks and plug along. I won't have local bosses, regional bosses, hq bosses and the commissioners coming up with tasks that had to be done by COB yesterday but they forgot to get the e-mail to us from hq or region or whatever.

This quest has been going on for years but a new intiative has started. As more hosas get on board and start posting, you will see just how similar our thoughts and experiences are.

I laughed when I read the post with the "not my job, I don't know, ask your supervisor" comments. Those replies may be here sooner than anyone realizes. I'll bet some of you may already be hearing it.