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Post by fowlfinder on May 4, 2022 10:34:25 GMT -5
As an aside....I would like to do a little bragging.....when I started this venture into insanity several, several years ago, I also started a PhD program and low and behold....I should be finishing this Summer with my dissertation....so, this black robe may elude me but I'll be getting another one soon and it comes with a spiffy hat and cape...... as one of my main union client heads once told me......"You gots to claim victory when you can....."  Brag away. Big serious congratulations on your accomplishment. |
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ducky
Full Member
Blowing in the wind
Posts: 108 
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Post by ducky on May 4, 2022 16:21:04 GMT -5
Good luck, Mango54! I’ll finish becoming Dr. Judge in the Fall.
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Post by operationalj on May 5, 2022 3:39:01 GMT -5
Any other former OHO attorneys feel like the prodigal child...forgive me for seeking greener pastures, a life of luxury and adventure... cue, repentant head down and hands out (Rolling Stones, Prodigal Son playing in background) ... will you take me back?  |
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Post by dwesq on May 5, 2022 6:57:23 GMT -5
Any other former OHO attorneys feel like the prodigal child...forgive me for seeking greener pastures, a life of luxury and adventure... cue, repentant head down and hands out (Rolling Stones, Prodigal Son playing in background) ... will you take me back?  prior DW experience should give you a leg up over other outsiders. But, what was your DWPI when you were with OHO? Also, insiders have current DWPI and remand agree rates to show. |
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Post by operationalj on May 5, 2022 7:40:56 GMT -5
Any other former OHO attorneys feel like the prodigal child...forgive me for seeking greener pastures, a life of luxury and adventure... cue, repentant head down and hands out (Rolling Stones, Prodigal Son playing in background) ... will you take me back? prior DW experience should give you a leg up over other outsiders. But, what was your DWPI when you were with OHO? Also, insiders have current DWPI and remand agree rates to show. You're right - on a more serious note and good question, productivity (and quality) matters. I left in 2017, so I don't remember the exact DWPI. However, you made me pull out my old resume that has some numbers, and I did well. Although numbers isn't the only determining factor for most jobs including the ALJ position, I'm sure it will be highly considered in the ALJ selection process for insiders as so many are qualified and there needs be a distinguishing factor. |
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Post by dwesq on May 5, 2022 10:28:39 GMT -5
prior DW experience should give you a leg up over other outsiders. But, what was your DWPI when you were with OHO? Also, insiders have current DWPI and remand agree rates to show. You're right - on a more serious note and good question, productivity (and quality) matters. I left in 2017, so I don't remember the exact DWPI. However, you made me pull out my old resume that has some numbers, and I did well. Although numbers isn't the only determining factor for most jobs including the ALJ position, I'm sure it will be highly considered in the ALJ selection process for insiders as so many are qualified and there needs be a distinguishing factor. Just to be on the safe side, I am really putting my nose to the grindstone for the next few months to keep pumping those numbers up  |
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Post by Gaidin on May 5, 2022 14:30:33 GMT -5
Any other former OHO attorneys feel like the prodigal child...forgive me for seeking greener pastures, a life of luxury and adventure... cue, repentant head down and hands out (Rolling Stones, Prodigal Son playing in background) ... will you take me back? prior DW experience should give you a leg up over other outsiders. But, what was your DWPI when you were with OHO? Also, insiders have current DWPI and remand agree rates to show. You are hitching a lot of weight to the productivity wagon. I hope you have spent the rest of your time making sure your GS, HOD, and HOCALJ like you. The thing most people seem to misunderstand in the insider vs. outsider debate is that the agency likes insiders not because of some specialized knowledge. It's because they know who can be productive and not cause problems. TPTB want their 500 decisions but they also don't want a judge that causes management and staff problems that prevent those people from meeting their metrics. If you can do 700 decisions a year but a GS has to walk around behind you all day putting out fires you start they really don't need you. Especially, in an office that is already chronically understaffed. So if you're an insider or a former insider make sure the folks in your office that get the call think of you fondly. |
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Post by operationalj on May 5, 2022 16:45:09 GMT -5
prior DW experience should give you a leg up over other outsiders. But, what was your DWPI when you were with OHO? Also, insiders have current DWPI and remand agree rates to show. You are hitching a lot of weight to the productivity wagon. I hope you have spent the rest of your time making sure your GS, HOD, and HOCALJ like you. The thing most people seem to misunderstand in the insider vs. outsider debate is that the agency likes insiders not because of some specialized knowledge. It's because they know who can be productive and not cause problems. TPTB want their 500 decisions but they also don't want a judge that causes management and staff problems that prevent those people from meeting their metrics. If you can do 700 decisions a year but a GS has to walk around behind you all day putting out fires you start they really don't need you. Especially, in an office that is already chronically understaffed. So if you're an insider or a former insider make sure the folks in your office that get the call think of you fondly. Agree. I refrained from emphasizing this topic in my earlier response since I can go on-and-on about this issue. We all know producers that do not play well with others and/or have a negative attitude...about everything. Not worth it. No matter the industry that I've worked in, before and during law, that high producer that has little interpersonal skills can create a toxic environment. All that to say, in a high-volume industry like SSD law, productivity is important; however, playing nice with others is just as important. |
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Post by jagvet on May 5, 2022 18:39:05 GMT -5
I'm not involved in the process, but I would think that although people looking at the resumes would like to know you're not being counseled for not meeting metrics, they are not weighing the numbers in that job as a measure of how well you'll do in a robe. It's not like they're hiring Joey Chestnut (perennial hot dog eating champ).
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Post by operationalj on May 6, 2022 3:57:45 GMT -5
I'm not involved in the process, but I would think that although people looking at the resumes would like to know you're not being counseled for not meeting metrics, they are not weighing the numbers in that job as a measure of how well you'll do in a robe. It's not like they're hiring Joey Chestnut (perennial hot dog eating champ). I have full confidence that the people selecting ALJs are not basing the decision just on metrics. I'm sure all of them have had the wonderful experience of trying to manage, improve, and/or replace people who could meet metrics but caused destruction throughout the office... and never want to do it again. I've witnessed it and it's ugly.  Fortunately, there are plenty of attorneys in and outside SSA that can meet metrics and work well with others. |
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Post by dwesq on May 6, 2022 8:20:18 GMT -5
I'm not involved in the process, but I would think that although people looking at the resumes would like to know you're not being counseled for not meeting metrics, they are not weighing the numbers in that job as a measure of how well you'll do in a robe. It's not like they're hiring Joey Chestnut (perennial hot dog eating champ). I have full confidence that the people selecting ALJs are not basing the decision just on metrics. I'm sure all of them have had the wonderful experience of trying to manage, improve, and/or replace people who could meet metrics but caused destruction throughout the office... and never want to do it again. I've witnessed it and it's ugly.  Fortunately, there are plenty of attorneys in and outside SSA that can meet metrics and work well with others. I totally hear this and agree. My focus on metrics is primarily because I think that's one of the best arguments I have on my end of the process. My references will say wonderful things about me, but I don't really have control over that at this point. |
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Post by roymcavoy on May 6, 2022 8:36:56 GMT -5
All of the metrics are also somewhat relative. If you are in an office who deals with no VA cases or a state that doesn’t have expanded Medicaid coverage, your DWPI will be higher than someone who is on the other side of that coin due to sheer page volume. Similarly, AC agree rate can be skewed because of cases where you begged an ALJ not to do something but they did it anyway and you caught a remand. I also think QR returns are skewed because, well, it is their job to find problems (including some that really don’t exist). So I am sure they will look at these, but not sure a lower metric would auto disqualify you nor would a high number be auto hiring.
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Post by neufenland on May 6, 2022 8:55:57 GMT -5
All of the metrics are also somewhat relative. If you are in an office who deals with no VA cases or a state that doesn’t have expanded Medicaid coverage, your DWPI will be higher than someone who is on the other side of that coin due to sheer page volume. Similarly, AC agree rate can be skewed because of cases where you begged an ALJ not to do something but they did it anyway and you caught a remand. I also think QR returns are skewed because, well, it is their job to find problems (including some that really don’t exist). So I am sure they will look at these, but not sure a lower metric would auto disqualify you nor would a high number be auto hiring. Why are staff attorneys evaluated on remands from the Appeals Council? The ALJ signs the decision, not them. At VA, there very much is a productivity metric, but the VLJ grades you on the legal sufficiency of each draft you submit. If CAVC overturns the Board (which it does a lot, but there are far fewer cases going into judicial review than decided by the Board), that isn't on the attorney who drafted it. |
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Post by privateatty on May 6, 2022 9:04:57 GMT -5
All of the metrics are also somewhat relative. If you are in an office who deals with no VA cases or a state that doesn’t have expanded Medicaid coverage, your DWPI will be higher than someone who is on the other side of that coin due to sheer page volume. Similarly, AC agree rate can be skewed because of cases where you begged an ALJ not to do something but they did it anyway and you caught a remand. I also think QR returns are skewed because, well, it is their job to find problems (including some that really don’t exist). So I am sure they will look at these, but not sure a lower metric would auto disqualify you nor would a high number be auto hiring. Gosh, its been 15 years of this Board and when I first started this journey that bore fruit in 2009. At that time we all were asking the same questions posed here and had the same complaints. It was approximately a 5% success rate. The other 95% were all qualified attorneys whom for one reason or another did not make the cut. My reason, after much soul searching was an off hand comment I made in my SSA interview. I later reflected upon the skewered smile of the attorney note keeper. You can control your choice of references and of course your performance on whatever exam process is before you. SSA is unencumbered by OPM now. They can reach whom they want to anoint. As has been pointed out by many, their main concern is do you play nice with others and will you be a Company Girl or Boy. I suspect that they really don't care if you are smart or dumb, SSA law is not as difficult as most Agencies--heck, Labor deals with more than 30 statutory schemes. IOW, its all form over substance, which of course is the opposite of what Judge picking should be. Yet, given the tortured history of the Fed. Cir. cases that upheld past firings of ALJs, I get that the Agency wants to avoid those whom would download porn at work and have a DUI and blurt out drunkenly that they are a "Judge". There are too many Iago type ALJs. They are all smart actors. Know thyself and your foibles. |
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Post by dwesq on May 6, 2022 9:55:50 GMT -5
All of the metrics are also somewhat relative. If you are in an office who deals with no VA cases or a state that doesn’t have expanded Medicaid coverage, your DWPI will be higher than someone who is on the other side of that coin due to sheer page volume. Similarly, AC agree rate can be skewed because of cases where you begged an ALJ not to do something but they did it anyway and you caught a remand. I also think QR returns are skewed because, well, it is their job to find problems (including some that really don’t exist). So I am sure they will look at these, but not sure a lower metric would auto disqualify you nor would a high number be auto hiring. Gosh, its been 15 years of this Board and when I first started this journey that bore fruit in 2009. At that time we all were asking the same questions posed here and had the same complaints. It was approximately a 5% attrition rate. The other 95% were all qualified attorneys whom for one reason or another did not make the cut. My reason, after much soul searching was an off hand comment I made in my SSA interview. I later reflected upon the skewered smile of the attorney note keeper. You can control your choice of references and of course your performance on whatever exam process is before you. SSA is unencumbered by OPM now. They can reach whom they want to anoint. As has been pointed out by many, their main concern is do you play nice with others and will you be a Company Girl or Boy. I suspect that they really don't care if you are smart or dumb, SSA law is not as difficult as most Agencies--heck, Labor deals with more than 30 statutory schemes. IOW, its all form over substance, which of course is the opposite of what Judge picking should be. Yet, given the tortured history of the Fed. Cir. cases that upheld past firings of ALJs, I get that the Agency wants to avoid those whom would download porn at work and have a DUI and blurt out drunkenly that they are a "Judge". There are too many Iago type ALJs. They are all smart actors. Know thyself and your foibles. It makes complete sense to hire known quantities, or rather unknown people because they don't cause problems or complain. Same point as above though. At this stage in the process, I don't have control over that. Not sure I get the Iago reference? Funny parrot who's always complaining? Are TPTB Jafar? (RIP Gilbert Gottfried) |
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Post by neufenland on May 6, 2022 10:24:41 GMT -5
Gosh, its been 15 years of this Board and when I first started this journey that bore fruit in 2009. At that time we all were asking the same questions posed here and had the same complaints. It was approximately a 5% attrition rate. The other 95% were all qualified attorneys whom for one reason or another did not make the cut. My reason, after much soul searching was an off hand comment I made in my SSA interview. I later reflected upon the skewered smile of the attorney note keeper. You can control your choice of references and of course your performance on whatever exam process is before you. SSA is unencumbered by OPM now. They can reach whom they want to anoint. As has been pointed out by many, their main concern is do you play nice with others and will you be a Company Girl or Boy. I suspect that they really don't care if you are smart or dumb, SSA law is not as difficult as most Agencies--heck, Labor deals with more than 30 statutory schemes. IOW, its all form over substance, which of course is the opposite of what Judge picking should be. Yet, given the tortured history of the Fed. Cir. cases that upheld past firings of ALJs, I get that the Agency wants to avoid those whom would download porn at work and have a DUI and blurt out drunkenly that they are a "Judge". There are too many Iago type ALJs. They are all smart actors. Know thyself and your foibles. It makes complete sense to hire known quantities, or rather unknown people because they don't cause problems or complain. Same point as above though. At this stage in the process, I don't have control over that. Not sure I get the Iago reference? Funny parrot who's always complaining? Are TPTB Jafar? (RIP Gilbert Gottfried) Iago is perhaps the best villain in Shakespeare's canon. He is a merciless plotter who seeks to destroy Othello, who has been venerated as a hero by the Venetian society for his military prowess. Iago feels the glory should go to him. A masterful liar and conniver; it's a juicy role for an actor, to boot. English minor as an undergrad. Do you think I'll get points for that from SSA? . |
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Post by privateatty on May 6, 2022 11:14:11 GMT -5
It makes complete sense to hire known quantities, or rather unknown people because they don't cause problems or complain. Same point as above though. At this stage in the process, I don't have control over that. Not sure I get the Iago reference? Funny parrot who's always complaining? Are TPTB Jafar? (RIP Gilbert Gottfried) Iago is perhaps the best villain in Shakespeare's canon. He is a merciless plotter who seeks to destroy Othello, who has been venerated as a hero by the Venetian society for his military prowess. Iago feels the glory should go to him. He's a masterful liar, conniver, and a juicy role for an actor to boot. English minor as an undergrad. Do you think I'll get points for that from SSA? . In a word no. Thank you for explaining the reference so well. |
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Post by 71stretch on May 8, 2022 22:05:43 GMT -5
Iago is perhaps the best villain in Shakespeare's canon. He is a merciless plotter who seeks to destroy Othello, who has been venerated as a hero by the Venetian society for his military prowess. Iago feels the glory should go to him. He's a masterful liar, conniver, and a juicy role for an actor to boot. English minor as an undergrad. Do you think I'll get points for that from SSA? . In a word no. Thank you for explaining the reference so well. SSA won't be impressed, no... but thanks to both of you for bringing back vivid memories of a great performance of Othello I saw several years ago. |
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Post by rocco1 on May 9, 2022 19:55:29 GMT -5
When should the interviews commence?
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Post by Gaidin on May 9, 2022 22:05:33 GMT -5
When should the interviews commence? At some point after most people on here think they should. They really do have a lot of applications to weed through and then get interviewers lined up. I am hearing from reliable sources that interviews will be by video which is a definite improvement. Shortly before emails or calls go out someone will probably post here that they are setting up interviewers. |
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Fortunately, there are plenty of attorneys in and outside SSA that can meet metrics and work well with others. 
Fortunately, there are plenty of attorneys in and outside SSA that can meet metrics and work well with others. 
