A question for the 2008 hires

[lee]

One last comment for the soon to be new aljs--I think that wilddog was exactly right about the important role of the case technicians. I primarily work with 2 in my office, and they have years of experience. I discovered last week that they had been hesitant about mentioning cases to me that are in the READY To SCHEDULE category, & which they thought might be appropriate for an on the record decision. Since we talked about this, they have directed my attention to a couple of these cases--I spend more time on them upfront, but we have avoided the time and expense of scheduling an unnecessary hearing.

[deltajudge]

8-)I would add to this, that most of the group sups, if not all are former staff attorneys or experienced para-legals who are very valuable sources of information and assistance. When I came on board many years ago, I didn't hesitate to lean on my hearing assistant who was experienced and knew the ropes. She appreciated my reliance on her, and the fact I didn't act like I knew it all because I was a Judge. She got me off on the right foot, and I'll never forget her.

[ed]

Query: If you are hired as a writer, still on probationary status, will you be eligible for the relocation assistance?

[justfoundthisboard]

I really don't know the answer - you will have to ask HR how that would work.

[aljkeb123]

First, I want to add my thanks to those of you who have already been through the process and freely give of your time and experience to answer our questions. I've been reading through the old (1997) Handbook for ALJs where is discusses the written exam. It places empahsis on issue spotting and analysis which definitely makes sense. However, it cautions you not to waste time restating the facts though you will rely on them in the analysis. This too makes sense but seems counter to conventional wisdom in that administrative law decisions usually have a section for "facts and conclusions" in which the salient facts of the case are capsulized for the reader. Any thoughts on how best to approach this for purposes of the exam?

[aljkeb123]

Pardon my misspellings...it's late and I'm getting weary.

[judicature]

alkkeb123 -

there is a modify and delete link at the top right of all your posts. There is also a spell checker you can run before you post.

[judicature]

I generally agree with the posts so far. Lee and my background are very similar, and I have found it to be challenging. I started in mid May, and am just now starting to feel more comfortable.

You are not expected to immediately handle a full load; there is a transitional period which is longer for those of us from outside the agency. Take advantage of this time...

[argonaut]

I applied on line for the ALJ openings and just received notice the last week of September that my score was not high enough. I am totally mystified as to the process. Where is my score? What is my score? What are the criteria for scoring? How do I appeal? What are the appeal procedures? Where might they be found on line? Should I bother? What are my options now? Do I wait for another applications opening? As you can see, I don't even have the lexicon so I may not even be asking my questions clearly. This one was open for 24 hours! It was maddening and a bit exciting trying to get it done in time, barely a few hours before the process was closed, but I never excepted to fall down this deep rabbit hole and not know what to do next. Tips anyone?

[hooligan]

Oct 12, 2008 6:58:59 GMT -5 argonaut said:

I applied on line for the ALJ openings and just received notice the last week of September that my score was not high enough. I am totally mystified as to the process. Where is my score? What is my score? What are the criteria for scoring? How do I appeal? What are the appeal procedures? Where might they be found on line? Should I bother? What are my options now? Do I wait for another applications opening? As you can see, I don't even have the lexicon so I may not even be asking my questions clearly. This one was open for 24 hours! It was maddening and a bit exciting trying to get it done in time, barely a few hours before the process was closed, but I never excepted to fall down this deep rabbit hole and not know what to do next. Tips anyone?

You are probably dead in the water, at least for now. The quickest fix will be to wait until the next opening and try again. However, there are steps you can take to improve your chances next time.

First, do a "Freedom of Information Request" to determine what was done with your application and the basis for scoring. From reports I have heard from others, they are very slow to respond to these and the answers may not be very helpful, but you should try it anyway.

Second, understand that the first screening is done by HR clerks who do not know the details of your profession. When the question asks for something specific, you need to parrot those words in your response. Synonyms and better experience get ignored. Do not be cute or engage in creative, interesting writing styles. Each item will get a + or a 0. The application is not a sales document, it is a qualifier.

Most people who did not make the cut seem to have omitted something due to haste. A common error was to omit the month of the admission to the bar. If you know you met the qualifications and did not pass the first stage, the chances are you made a silly error of omission.

Do not lose heart. There are many on the register who have been competing for years before they are selected. This is not a quick fix. Persistence is necessary.

[flannery]

Argonaut, go to the thread NOR First Cut Announcement and on page 4 see Nonamouse's post and on page 5 see Southern Miss's. These two posts provide a good road map for improving your "score" next time. For those of us who didn't make the first cut last time, but made it this time, a common element seems to be that we refined and revised our application material to incorporate keywords and terms from the vacancy announcement. Since you use the name Argonaut, I would say that your quest for the golden fleece would be to follow the path set out in the above-referenced two posts--you may never find out anything much about how OPM 'scored' you, but by studying posts like Nonamouse's and Southern Miss's, you will begin to see how to present your qualifying experience and accomplishment record in a more OPM-friendly light next time. Don't give up. Those of us who didn't make it last time but did this time (at least the first cut, anyway) took an emotional hit that lasted months, but then made positive efforts to improve our applications the second go-round. We still have two more huge hurdles to jump over, the written exam and OPM interview but the whole point is this time, at least we get to take these additional steps in the process, unlike last time. You, too, will succeed--just acknowledge to yourself you will never understand your "score" of zero and don't focus on that--just get ready for next time.

[argonaut]

Flannery of the "bee-loud glade" and Hooligan, Thanks so much for your thoughtful and very helpful replies. I take them to heart. Also learned to navigate this fabulous site and found the posts you referred me to, Flannery. I was not surprised by the result of my application as much as disappointed. Early on, I senses that there might be some "randomness" as others have described it. But I also know that there must be a formula, a hidden language or a process to keep in mind, and your replies gave me good guidance in that respect. After reading many posts, I have to say that there are many thoughtful people communicating very helpful ideas and being candid. I am certainly not bereft by the outcome (on this first try). I was far more anxious about feeling that I was in a bit of an Orwellian world. Anyhoo, does anyone know how often these openings for this application process come up? And, other than USA jobs, is there another site that I can check in order to be alerted when they open the process again? Is it something they only do once every couple of years?

[hooligan]

Oct 12, 2008 14:26:04 GMT -5 argonaut said:

Anyhoo, does anyone know how often these openings for this application process come up? And, other than USA jobs, is there another site that I can check in order to be alerted when they open the process again? Is it something they only do once every couple of years?

There is no schedule. OPM does not like the process of refreshing the list. If there are names on the list that are qualified, they see little value in adding more names. Political pressure seems to be their only motivator.

Whether the list is re-opened will probably depend upon how soon a good number are hired. It will not be imminent. Expect late next summer or early fall 2009 as the soonest unless a policy change is made. Historically, the list was open ended and applications were added continuously. It could revert to that, but there seems to be no traction on that. It would diffuse a lot of angst. Recognize that OPM cares more about themselves than they do about fairness, your concerns or the desire of the Agencies to hire the best available people. They like using "the EASY button."

The two best ways to track developments are: 1) request an automated notice from USA Jobs. [Understand that some people have found this to be unreliable]; 2) Check here regularly.

[lawcat]

For any of you new judges or those who have been there awhile, I was wondering how much flexibility the agencies might give someone for actually starting work. I'm in a situation where I could probably take a month or so off (unpaid) for training if I were selected, but depending on the timing, I wouldn't be able to actually start working for a month or two after training. I've been in my state job for nine years in January, and I will vest for retirement in January 2010.If the predictions on this site are correct so far, offers for jobs would be made sometime in the summer of 2009. It sure would be tough to have to walk away from a retirement plan 3 or four months before putting in my time. I guess I'll be thrilled though if I end up having to make that tough decision. Any thoughts?

[deaddisco]

Oct 14, 2008 21:22:27 GMT -5 lawcat said:

For any of you new judges or those who have been there awhile, I was wondering how much flexibility the agencies might give someone for actually starting work. I'm in a situation where I could probably take a month or so off (unpaid) for training if I were selected, but depending on the timing, I wouldn't be able to actually start working for a month or two after training. I've been in my state job for nine years in January, and I will vest for retirement in January 2010.If the predictions on this site are correct so far, offers for jobs would be made sometime in the summer of 2009. It sure would be tough to have to walk away from a retirement plan 3 or four months before putting in my time. I guess I'll be thrilled though if I end up having to make that tough decision. Any thoughts?

you can always ask the question after you get an offer, but I doubt they would go for it. too many people want these positions.

[nonamouse]

Oct 14, 2008 21:22:27 GMT -5 lawcat said:

For any of you new judges or those who have been there awhile, I was wondering how much flexibility the agencies might give someone for actually starting work. I'm in a situation where I could probably take a month or so off (unpaid) for training if I were selected, but depending on the timing, I wouldn't be able to actually start working for a month or two after training. I've been in my state job for nine years in January, and I will vest for retirement in January 2010.If the predictions on this site are correct so far, offers for jobs would be made sometime in the summer of 2009. It sure would be tough to have to walk away from a retirement plan 3 or four months before putting in my time. I guess I'll be thrilled though if I end up having to make that tough decision. Any thoughts?

I don't see how your scenario could possibly work. You cannot have 2 employers. As a new ALJ you would have a specific date to report that would put you at the start of a pay period for the federal government. You would have to take the oath for federal service when you report similar to the President or a military officer.

If you were very lucky you might get a month of notice before your report date at your new office and then head off for a month of "judge school" elsewhere. Many people had to wrap up everything in 2 weeks and get to Baltimore for training without even moving their things to their new duty station. No leave is permitted during the formal training to go home and handle anything. New ALJs go directly back from the month of training to their new office.

This is nothing like the normal job offer that allows for a negotiation of things like the starting date, salary, etc. If a person cannot accept the government's terms, then they will be skipped for the next eager person who will be happy to drop everything and take the position. If you are blessed enough to get through the WD and SI with a good score, I suggest that you find a way to accept an offer if one is made. There are far too many people with excellent qualifications waiting for an offer for the agencies to bother with anyone who does not want to play ball by their rules.

[flannery]

Lawcat, are you telling me that you only have to work for ten years for your state government before you are fully vested for retirement? What state do you live in? Maybe I need to move there!

[semipa]

Lawcat, some of the judges in my class were able to get SSA to agree to a later start date and training class, but only because SSA had three training classes already scheduled.

[lawcat]

Hey thanks for all of the advice. I didn't even think abouth the oath of office, I live in Alabama, and we do have a 10 year vesting program. Of course, it's nothing close to what I'd get if I stayed 20 or 25 years, but it is some security. I'm sure if I'm fortunate enough to get an interview and offer, I'd accept. Like everything else in this process, it does create a lot of questions and concerns; I'm sure there are many of my fellow applicants who have equally or even tougher decisions that they might have to make (like shutting down a law practice). I just feel very fortunate to have to even consider the possibilities.

[lawcat]

Hey newalj- thanks for the info, check your PMB.