Supplemental ALJ Training

[nothingventured]

I believe the first two classes from 2008 should be returning from their week of Supplemental ALJ Training about now. Any reports?

[nightowl]

Chief Judge Cristaudo spoke to the judges today. He said they were working hard on finalizing the selections for this round of hiring. He was hoping they would be done by the close of business today, but they may have to finalize everything Tuesday. Any way, he did say offers would go out next week. Good luck to every one!

[nightowl]

As far as training, various topics were covered. Dismissals, OTRs, phrasing RFCs, etc. They basically covered everything from pre-hearing to post-hearing. The ALJ trainers encouraged round-table discussions of topics. The discussions kept your interest more than some one lecturing about a certain topic. At least in my group, the ALJ trainers treated us as equals and desired to learn new techniques from us, especially streamlining the decision process with the current computer technology and forms. Overall, it was a good experience, but it was still training. It was especially nice to see ALJs from other offices, re-acquaint yourself with friends from last year and to hear what is going on nationwide. Have fun in Hunt Valley!! ;D

[mango]

A couple of comments. Judge King, the movement behind the e-business process, spoke and made mention of the obligation to put out 500 decisions a year. For those not following, this is a large point of contention at ODAR. He also acknowledged that the electronic business process is shifting administrative burden from support staff to ALJs. His point is that this is overall good for the process as it makes the organization perform better. I think he is correct, but the agency has not recognized that by shifting burden, it makes it even harder to hit the 500 goal. In addition to increasing the burden on judges, I would point out the agency has also failed to provide necessary training to older judges to bring them up to speed on computers. When all but the last class were hired, computer skills were not a factor and many lack even the most basic skills. It is unfair to expect them to be working in a totally electronic environment without providing them the necessary training in advance.

He also made it very clear no one is interested in anyone's comments on the e-business process that has not spent some considerable time working with it. This is illogical as they have rolled it out to several offices as pilot offices to see how it works and yet provide no method for feedback and, based upon his statements at training, will not take any from anyone not experienced with the system.

The CALJ spoke and seemed to back away from the 500 as a quota, but rather emphasized it as a goal and to his credit made this point very strongly. His was a very positive presentation and while I have plenty of criticism for the agency, I did appreciate his comments. He also made the point there would be 13 new offices opening in the future, which will represent continuing growth in the number of ALJs hired. The new hires extends to support staff as well. A last point was he all but said the proposal to take the authority away from ALJs to schedule cases was dead. I hope that is the case and may it rest in peace.

And yes it was very good seeing classmates from last year and catching up. I hear mention of what a great group they are, and those comments are on the mark.

Good luck to those waiting for offers.

[extang]

"the electronic business process is shifting administrative burden from support staff to ALJs."
Perhaps I misunderstand, but doesn't this amount to saying that ODAR is paying ALJ salaries for clerical GS7 [if it's even that high] work?
Not that I'm objecting: I kind of enjoy messing around with CPMS, getting my own DEQYs and SEQYs from PCOM, etc. But it does take time that eventually adds up and, as mango points out, increases the difficulty of being "productive" as defined by ODAR, i.e., cranking out more and more dispositions.

[float]

Who is Judge King, "the movement behind the e-business process"?

[mango]

He is the lead ALJ in the team that is conducting training for the various offices that were designated as pilot offices. ODAR sends out a team to train office personnel and ALJs on the new system. Takes about a week.

[valkyrie]

"In addition to increasing the burden on judges, I would point out the agency has also failed to provide necessary training to older judges to bring them up to speed on computers. When all but the last class were hired, computer skills were not a factor and many lack even the most basic skills. It is unfair to expect them to be working in a totally electronic environment without providing them the necessary training in advance."

On a local basis attempts have been made to provide updated computer training to the "older" ALJs. Some are already computer literate and some not. Some have embraced or at least accepted the increasing technological aspect of the job description, and some have ignored or rejected it. As an attorney delegated to provide such training, I can say that the old school ALJs of my own office took to the training at about a 50% rate.

[alj2009]

I am curious about the supplemental training for new ALJs. Like, how long is it, where is it, and do you have reasonable notice before you are sent? I am assuming it is mandatory. I don't recall this ever being mentioned officially as part of the job.

Thanks. I just like to have all the facts that I can get.

[alj]

May 24, 2009 14:51:29 GMT -5 alj2009 said:

I am curious about the supplemental training for new ALJs. Like, how long is it, where is it, and do you have reasonable notice before you are sent? I am assuming it is mandatory. I don't recall this ever being mentioned officially as part of the job.

Thanks. I just like to have all the facts that I can get.

One week long. It could be held anywhere. Used to be done by the region, but I think this year it is being done nationwide. Not much notice, like everything else. Maybe a month or so, maybe more, maybe not.

A group from last year's class just finished on Friday. Some one in that class will be able to tell you about the notice and the location for this year.

It is difficult for single parents with children at home.

[alj]

May 24, 2009 7:27:48 GMT -5 extang said:

"the electronic business process is shifting administrative burden from support staff to ALJs."
Perhaps I misunderstand, but doesn't this amount to saying that ODAR is paying ALJ salaries for clerical GS7 [if it's even that high] work?
Not that I'm objecting: I kind of enjoy messing around with CPMS, getting my own DEQYs and SEQYs from PCOM, etc. But it does take time that eventually adds up and, as mango points out, increases the difficulty of being "productive" as defined by ODAR, i.e., cranking out more and more dispositions.

I am a productive judge. I don't like any part of ". . .messing around with CPMS, getting my own DEQYs and SEQYs from PCOM, etc." Any clerical job I have to do slows me down and keeps me from my job of hearing and deciding cases.

My ability to close 650 cases has already by compromised by the new and exciting changes brought by the new ODAR team. With the additional innovative plans for the future, I will be lucky to close 500 to 550 cases. The only group that loses is the group that matters the most--the claimants.

Maybe other judges can still be productive with the clerical functions they are performing and will be required to perform in the future, but I won't be able to do so.

Seems to me that there is a provision in the Administrative Procedure Act that precludes a judge from performing clerical tasks? I would think electronically moving a case from one category to another is a clerical function best performed by a clerk.

But if this is the process TPTB envision, that is the way it will be. My feeling is the whole system will be a bigger disaster than HPI. Hopefully there will be work arounds, but that will depend on the office. In my office there are several in management who can't wait to go totally paperless and take all paper away from the judges. Why? because that is what the Baltimorons want. And I am in one of the "good" offices.

So we shall see how this "New Business Process" (how many times have I heard that phrase?) takes us and how we can find ways to be productive in spite of it.

[valkyrie]

I think the DEQYs and SEQYs are legitimate aspects of working up a case for a hearing prior to ALJ involvement. On the other hand, CPMS is a tool that assists employees at every level if used properly, and most importantly protects the claimant's case through its tracking function. Anyone concerned with numbers had better be prepared to "mess around with CPMS" in order to track production, follow to do lists, and keep up with case status. I don't see why these functions should be somebody else's responsibility.

[southerner]

As for notice of supp training, we were aware officially more than 1 1/2 months before it was to be held--needed that time to deal with hearings schedule. Unofficially, there was word about 2 months + but not written in stone. Mandatory, yes. Shift from one class to another, permitted with good reason, e.g., child's graduation, etc. Really 4 days--1/2 day Mon, full day Tue, Wed, and Thur, 1/2 day Fri. I head out in a couple of weeks, mostly 3rd and 4th ALJ 2008 classes. This class last week was in Annapolis. My group is in a small town north of Baltimore, population 20,000.

[lawmaker]

May 24, 2009 16:11:51 GMT -5 alj said:

May 24, 2009 7:27:48 GMT -5 extang said:

"the electronic business process is shifting administrative burden from support staff to ALJs."
Perhaps I misunderstand, but doesn't this amount to saying that ODAR is paying ALJ salaries for clerical GS7 [if it's even that high] work?
Not that I'm objecting: I kind of enjoy messing around with CPMS, getting my own DEQYs and SEQYs from PCOM, etc. But it does take time that eventually adds up and, as mango points out, increases the difficulty of being "productive" as defined by ODAR, i.e., cranking out more and more dispositions.

I am a productive judge. I don't like any part of ". . .messing around with CPMS, getting my own DEQYs and SEQYs from PCOM, etc." Any clerical job I have to do slows me down and keeps me from my job of hearing and deciding cases.

My ability to close 650 cases has already by compromised by the new and exciting changes brought by the new ODAR team. With the additional innovative plans for the future, I will be lucky to close 500 to 550 cases. The only group that loses is the group that matters the most--the claimants.

Maybe other judges can still be productive with the clerical functions they are performing and will be required to perform in the future, but I won't be able to do so.

Seems to me that there is a provision in the Administrative Procedure Act that precludes a judge from performing clerical tasks? I would think electronically moving a case from one category to another is a clerical function best performed by a clerk.

But if this is the process TPTB envision, that is the way it will be. My feeling is the whole system will be a bigger disaster than HPI. Hopefully there will be work arounds, but that will depend on the office. In my office there are several in management who can't wait to go totally paperless and take all paper away from the judges. Why? because that is what the Baltimorons want. And I am in one of the "good" offices.

So we shall see how this "New Business Process" (how many times have I heard that phrase?) takes us and how we can find ways to be productive in spite of it.

If you are in a hearing office that schedules cases right after they run the deqy and seqy, then viewing the function as a mere clerical work is ok.
However, the longer the period of time that passes between the date of the run and the date of the hearing and or date of the decision, the less likely the information will be.
It's evidence. And a decision maker should have reasonably up to date evidence before making decisions.
Not only are the deqy and seqy indicated as relevant to making decisions, so too are the NHNs.
Making decisions, particularly favorable ones, too often results in remands because up to date queries were not run and compared to allegations.
If you view the obtaining of evidence as a clerical task then an alj should ask clerks to obtain the updated evidence for inclusion in the record. Preferably beforehand in order to enable bench decisions to be given without later renegging, and also, so that the alj could properly question the witnesses about the various issues that surround that piece of evidence.
I don't believe that the APA even hints at alj job duties.
My guess (based further somewhat on memory r): The job descriptions are more identified in the PD and further described (for ssa judges) in the IFPTE MOU.

[counselor95]

May 23, 2009 16:18:05 GMT -5 mango said:

The CALJ spoke and seemed to back away from the 500 as a quota, but rather emphasized it as a goal and to his credit made this point very strongly. . . . A last point was he all but said the proposal to take the authority away from ALJs to schedule cases was dead. I hope that is the case and may it rest in peace.

I agree with you, Mango, about CALJ's remarks on the 500 cases a year, but I had a very different impression about his remarks on the proposed regs to allow the Agency to schedule cases. I thought he very carefully danced around that issue, stating that the preamble to the proposed regs said the Agency would only schedule cases for those ALJs who were not scheduling a "sufficient number" of cases. But he did not say those regs were improper, or not necessary, or were not going to be adopted. He merely commented that the proposed regs were in the comment stage and he did not know any further status.

[witz2]

Any advice on the best way to travel from BWI to the hotel where the training is conducted? Is there more than one option in this regard?

Thanks.

[mango]

You are correct that counselor95 that he danced around it. My read is cannot say it is dead as that is for the commissioner, but he went as far as he could without saying it was dead. It was an interesting dance he did.

[mango]

Witz2: the suppershuttle is the cheapest way, but it took 35 minutes waiting for the shuttle and around 45 minutes to get there. I took a cab back to the airport and it was $60 compared to the $35 for the shuttle. The cab was about a 20 min ride. I would recommend the cab. It is a reimbursed expense and time is valuable.

Over an hour for the shuttle and I had a reservation.

[witz2]

Thanks Mango. I appreciate the heads-up.

Take care.

[lurker]

May 25, 2009 22:44:20 GMT -5 witz2 said:

Thanks Mango. I appreciate the heads-up.

Take care.

Witz -
Just want to point out that Mango was in Annapolis. I don't know if you're talking about the second training - but the June 2009 group will be in Hunt Valley, MD. I suspect Super Shuttle will work, but you might want to check with the hotel.
If you are talking about any hypothetical supplemental ALJ training in future years = all bets are off on location.
As for me, I need to figure out how to get to Hunt Valley from Baltimore Amtrak. Hunt Valley / Death Valley - for me the chance to get together again with my classmates will make any location worth traveling to.